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geeceem
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
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 Posted: 04/10/14 12:12 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| geeceem wrote: |
| Noob query here: has anyone succeeded in hiring any of Geno's assistants away from UConn? You'd think they could pretty much write their own tickets... |
Relatively recently, Jemelle Elliot left for Cincy, which has pretty much been a disaster. Tonya Cardoza left for Temple, which has gone somewhat better. |
Thanks to all. I remember now reading that Cardoza has been losing players to transfers, although I don't know whether the number exceeds whatever "average" might mean here, and also that her past two seasons at Temple haven't been so great.
The somewhat rhetorical question lurking here is "What does Geno know that other coaches--excepting maybe Muffet lately--don't?" It appears that even some of his assistants haven't quite figured it out yet either.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/10/14 2:03 pm ::: |
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| geeceem wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| geeceem wrote: |
| Noob query here: has anyone succeeded in hiring any of Geno's assistants away from UConn? You'd think they could pretty much write their own tickets... |
Relatively recently, Jemelle Elliot left for Cincy, which has pretty much been a disaster. Tonya Cardoza left for Temple, which has gone somewhat better. |
Thanks to all. I remember now reading that Cardoza has been losing players to transfers, although I don't know whether the number exceeds whatever "average" might mean here, and also that her past two seasons at Temple haven't been so great.
The somewhat rhetorical question lurking here is "What does Geno know that other coaches--excepting maybe Muffet lately--don't?" It appears that even some of his assistants haven't quite figured it out yet either. |
As a Rutgers alum, I'm tempted to say that he has Chris Dailey and nobody else does. And I don't mean that entirely facetiously - you can see plenty of examples of teams that have success for some time, then the head coach loses the top assistant things aren't quite so good, either for a while or ever again.
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geeceem
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
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| Posted: 04/10/14 2:45 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| geeceem wrote: |
The somewhat rhetorical question lurking here is "What does Geno know that other coaches--excepting maybe Muffet lately--don't?" It appears that even some of his assistants haven't quite figured it out yet either. |
As a Rutgers alum, I'm tempted to say that he has Chris Dailey and nobody else does. And I don't mean that entirely facetiously - you can see plenty of examples of teams that have success for some time, then the head coach loses the top assistant things aren't quite so good, either for a while or ever again. |
Ja, that's something we know about here at Maryland, as there is some sentiment that Jeff Walz was the reason the Terps won in 2006. After seeing L'ville shut down Griner last year, I was tempted along those lines myself.
But that simply defers the question to Walz--or in UConn's case, to Dailey. In Walz's case, he's been to the NCAA championship game twice since he left MD, while Brenda has only been to the Final Four once and never back to the championship game; nevertheless her over-all record at MD is better than his over the same period at L'ville, if I've added correctly. (A reasonable retort here is "Who cares what your record is if you're not playing for the championship?")
In any event, I don't yet see the consistency of play from Walz's teams that I see from Geno's (and Muffet's lately).
I have only vague categories, e.g., discipline and court smarts. It seems like Geno's teams have Plans A, B, and C every time they come up the court: if Plan A doesn't work, they reset and try Plan B--and they all seem to be on pretty much the same page all the time. They don't seem to ever forget their fundamental scoring strategies. You just don't very often see his teams standing around trying to figure out what to do next, and in consequence, you don't often see those frantic flailing drives towards the paint with wild tosses that are hoped to be somewhere in the direction of the basket. Or the 3 pt attempt from 30 feet. (I'll make an exception on this for Moriah Jefferson; she must drive Geno nuts--but she's so quick on defense....)
We could also say something about Geno and Muffet's use of the high post, too. Dev Peters and Natalie Achonwa demonstrated that you don't have to be 6'5" to make it work--although if you are 6'5" (hello, Stephanie) you can make it work even better.
I have to think harder about defensive schemes, as I almost always get suckered into watching the offense.
Maybe this needs to be another thread...
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/10/14 3:41 pm ::: |
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| geeceem wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| geeceem wrote: |
The somewhat rhetorical question lurking here is "What does Geno know that other coaches--excepting maybe Muffet lately--don't?" It appears that even some of his assistants haven't quite figured it out yet either. |
As a Rutgers alum, I'm tempted to say that he has Chris Dailey and nobody else does. And I don't mean that entirely facetiously - you can see plenty of examples of teams that have success for some time, then the head coach loses the top assistant things aren't quite so good, either for a while or ever again. |
Ja, that's something we know about here at Maryland, as there is some sentiment that Jeff Walz was the reason the Terps won in 2006. After seeing L'ville shut down Griner last year, I was tempted along those lines myself.
But that simply defers the question to Walz--or in UConn's case, to Dailey. In Walz's case, he's been to the NCAA championship game twice since he left MD, while Brenda has only been to the Final Four once and never back to the championship game; nevertheless her over-all record at MD is better than his over the same period at L'ville, if I've added correctly. (A reasonable retort here is "Who cares what your record is if you're not playing for the championship?")
In any event, I don't yet see the consistency of play from Walz's teams that I see from Geno's (and Muffet's lately).
I have only vague categories, e.g., discipline and court smarts. It seems like Geno's teams have Plans A, B, and C every time they come up the court: if Plan A doesn't work, they reset and try Plan B--and they all seem to be on pretty much the same page all the time. They don't seem to ever forget their fundamental scoring strategies. You just don't very often see his teams standing around trying to figure out what to do next, and in consequence, you don't often see those frantic flailing drives towards the paint with wild tosses that are hoped to be somewhere in the direction of the basket. Or the 3 pt attempt from 30 feet. (I'll make an exception on this for Moriah Jefferson; she must drive Geno nuts--but she's so quick on defense....)
We could also say something about Geno and Muffet's use of the high post, too. Dev Peters and Natalie Achonwa demonstrated that you don't have to be 6'5" to make it work--although if you are 6'5" (hello, Stephanie) you can make it work even better.
I have to think harder about defensive schemes, as I almost always get suckered into watching the offense.
Maybe this needs to be another thread... |
Maybe, but what fun would that be?
I think there's something to be said for relationships where both parties bring different things to the table, and I can imagine that being the case for both Auriemma/Dailey and Frese/Walz. Similarly, at Rutgers, Jolette Law left to take the Illinois job (somewhat ironic, since she replaced Theresa Grentz, Stringer's predecessor at Rutgers) right after the 2007 national runner-up season, and RU hasn't been as good since then. (Well, the 2008 team probably actually was better, but it was literally all the same key players, and the best recruit went out with an ACL in December.)
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thefutureisbright
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ClayK
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| Posted: 04/11/14 10:49 am ::: |
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Let's see how well Walz recruits in the next few years. I would say that right now one reason his teams aren't as consistent as UConn and Notre Dame is that they're not as talented.
I think his recruiting class this year is pretty good, and if he narrows the talent gap, then we'll see if his teams get more consistent.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/11/14 11:31 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Let's see how well Walz recruits in the next few years. I would say that right now one reason his teams aren't as consistent as UConn and Notre Dame is that they're not as talented.
I think his recruiting class this year is pretty good, and if he narrows the talent gap, then we'll see if his teams get more consistent. |
I agree on waiting to fully evaluate Walz, although he has done a very good job so far, in a relatively short time.
I do think, though, that the evidence suggests that Frese was more effective with Walz on her staff. Games like Baylor-Louisville in last year's tournament make me think that, in addition to recruting, he may have been important to the X and O side of things. (Whatever one thinks of that game, it's very clear he developed basically the only strategy that could have worked.)
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Howee
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/11/14 12:24 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Let's see how well Walz recruits in the next few years. I would say that right now one reason his teams aren't as consistent as UConn and Notre Dame is that they're not as talented.
I think his recruiting class this year is pretty good, and if he narrows the talent gap, then we'll see if his teams get more consistent. |
I'm not convinced that's true. For some reason Walz has this image that he doesn't have any highly ranked players and simply finds and develops kids. But if we look at his starting five this year (using Hoopgurlz because it's handy), it included Schoni (# eight), Smith (# eight), Hammond (#12), Slaughter (#45) and Asia Taylor (unranked). How many other teams had three top 12 players starting?
Notre Dame certainly didn't. ND started Loyd (#4),McBride (#20), Achonwa (from Canada so unranked, but reportedly would have been in the 20-25 range), Allen (#25) and Braker (unranked). Maryland, who beat Louisville in the tournament, started Thomas (#7), Jones (#55), DeVaughn (#57), Lexie Brown (#15) and Rutan (#95).
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RP
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 04/11/14 12:47 pm ::: |
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| geeceem wrote: |
| In Walz's case, he's been to the NCAA championship game twice since he left MD, while Brenda has only been to the Final Four once and never back to the championship game; nevertheless her over-all record at MD is better than his over the same period at L'ville, if I've added correctly. (A reasonable retort here is "Who cares what your record is if you're not playing for the championship?") |
Also worth noting that Frese is 2-1 against Walz in NCAA tournament games (and overall).
And if Walz gets most of the credit for the championship team, shouldn't he also get most of the blame for Maryland losing in the second round the following season?
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beknighted
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| Posted: 04/11/14 2:38 pm ::: |
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| RP wrote: |
| geeceem wrote: |
| In Walz's case, he's been to the NCAA championship game twice since he left MD, while Brenda has only been to the Final Four once and never back to the championship game; nevertheless her over-all record at MD is better than his over the same period at L'ville, if I've added correctly. (A reasonable retort here is "Who cares what your record is if you're not playing for the championship?") |
Also worth noting that Frese is 2-1 against Walz in NCAA tournament games (and overall).
And if Walz gets most of the credit for the championship team, shouldn't he also get most of the blame for Maryland losing in the second round the following season? |
I blame Brenda for everything.
More seriously, I wouldn't give Walz most of the credit for 2006 - it does properly go to the head coach (and quite a bit of luck along the way). My thesis was that there are some very effective pairings of head coach and assistant coach, and that it can take a long time for a head coach who loses her right hand assistant to replace that person. I did not mean to suggest that Walz (or any other assistant) deserves most or even half of the credit.
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thefutureisbright
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Ex-Ref
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/14/14 1:30 pm ::: |
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Is this a good hire? I don't know anything about her.
I was sort of hoping that Georgetown would show a serious commitment with a really serious hire. They have a ton of talent in this area, they can use academics and reputation as a tremendous draw, it's a beautiful school and campus in a great city. Unlike the men, the women play on campus. Anybody good should be able to recruit really well there. If they were serious they could build a good program.
The BE needs a couple of schools to take WBB really seriously, and Georgetown is in a great position to take a leading role if they want to.
I'm not sure this hire shows they really want to, and aren't going to be content to just go along for the ride they way they did in the old BE.
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beknighted
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| Posted: 04/14/14 1:50 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Is this a good hire? I don't know anything about her.
I was sort of hoping that Georgetown would show a serious commitment with a really serious hire. They have a ton of talent in this area, they can use academics and reputation as a tremendous draw, it's a beautiful school and campus in a great city. Unlike the men, the women play on campus. Anybody good should be able to recruit really well there. If they were serious they could build a good program.
The BE needs a couple of schools to take WBB really seriously, and Georgetown is in a great position to take a leading role if they want to.
I'm not sure this hire shows they really want to, and aren't going to be content to just go along for the ride they way they did in the old BE. |
Put bluntly, the Georgetown administration has shown no interest in this program. Playing on campus sounds swell, but McDonough is like a high school gym (maybe not as nice as the gym at my high school was 30 years ago), and they've spent no money to improve it so far as I can tell.
They kept Pat Knapp on forever, even though he was not only not much of a coach, but actually seemed abusive towards his players. (More than once, I witnessed him screaming at a player on the sidelines for the sin of not being able to guard someone faster and more talented.) They lucked into a good coach, but made no effort to keep her when a better offer beckoned.
I once talked to a fairly significant GU booster about this, and he said that the long-term plan for women's athletics essentially was to concentrate on other sports where they thought they could do better. I see no evidence that this has changed.
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beknighted
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| Posted: 04/14/14 1:52 pm ::: |
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| Not a coaching change, but this seems like the best thread to note that the Asbury Park Press reported over the weekend that Rutgers and C. Vivian Stringer are still in negotiations for an extension. Her contract expires on June 30.
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thefutureisbright
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Howee
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| Posted: 04/14/14 7:27 pm ::: |
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| Marquette Fan wrote: |
| Maren Walseth to be the new North Dakota State coach: |
Should be good. I'm curious....who else did they have on the line?
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NoDakSt
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| Posted: 04/14/14 10:40 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Marquette Fan wrote: |
| Maren Walseth to be the new North Dakota State coach: |
Should be good. I'm curious....who else did they have on the line? |
I haven't heard who else they brought to campus but Taj McWilliams had thrown her name into the hat.
I like this hire although not entirely sure why? She's young and doesn't have a lot of experience and yet at the same time, she is connected to the primary area the Bison recruit and that is the Twin Cities metro area. Her sister transferred out of Colorado State and played at NDSU. And like I said, she's young and I equate that to energetic and exciting (as well as perhaps untried and untested.)
Kind of excited about Bison WBB again.
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StevenHW
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thefutureisbright
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ksuwbbfan
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| Posted: 04/16/14 5:41 pm ::: |
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thefutureisbright
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thefutureisbright
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