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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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 Posted: 12/26/15 10:14 am ::: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
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. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 12/26/15 11:44 am ::: Re: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
Others? |
Christine Dailey? She's never moving and it's probably too late for her to really blossom as a head coach anyway, but there would be interest if she made herself available.
Don't even think about Niele...
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/26/15 11:55 am ::: |
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Kyra Elzy.....she's associate head coach at UT, but has so far said she has "no interest" in becoming a head coach. Too bad, because I think she'd be a good one.
Jackie Stiles at Missouri State.
As for Ralph and Dailey, why move on? They're part of a winning machine!
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 12/26/15 12:03 pm ::: Re: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
Others? |
Christine Dailey? She's never moving and it's probably too late for her to really blossom as a head coach anyway, but there would be interest if she made herself available.
Don't even think about Niele... |
Dailey is never going anywhere, and I don't even consider her an active candidate for this topic. Famous head coaches sometimes have career sidekicks like Dailey, but it's much rarer and arguably unhealthy for a head coach to have two or three.
Why not Niele Ivey and Carol Owens from Notre Dame? They have outstanding resumes. Beth Cunningham doesn't qualify for the topic -- which should more accurately refer to a first-time head coaching job -- because she's already been a head coach.
The topic isn't whether a partisan fan wants some assistant at his or her school to head up, but whether that assistant is highly qualified to do so. |
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 5223
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| Posted: 12/26/15 1:12 pm ::: Re: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
Others? |
Christine Dailey? She's never moving and it's probably too late for her to really blossom as a head coach anyway, but there would be interest if she made herself available.
Don't even think about Niele... |
Dailey is never going anywhere, and I don't even consider her an active candidate for this topic. Famous head coaches sometimes have career sidekicks like Dailey, but it's much rarer and arguably unhealthy for a head coach to have two or three.
Why not Niele Ivey and Carol Owens from Notre Dame? They have outstanding resumes. Beth Cunningham doesn't qualify for the topic -- which should more accurately refer to a first-time head coaching job -- because she's already been a head coach.
The topic isn't whether a partisan fan wants some assistant at his or her school to head up, but whether that assistant is highly qualified to do so. |
Carol Owens was already a head coach at Northern Illinois from 2005-2010, with an overall winning percentage of 44.9%. That is what is tricky about picking these up and coming assistants, people just throw out names of assistants from programs that are elite, and it is really hard to tell how important that said assistant is, especially in recruiting. Take UConn, kids are probably going there for Geno, the championships, the TV exposure, facilities, just a variety of reasons. An assistant coach may be the lead recruiter on a kid but is it easy to serve in that role? Can that same assistant attract top kids to a program that is rebuilding and has no history to sell? That is what separates the good recruiters from the great recruiters, and really trying to predict the future success is like a crapshoot. Put Shea Ralph at Arizona and let's see what she does, and then put an assistant from say Boston College at UConn and see if UConn's recruiting changes much.
I thought Matt Insell was known as a top recruiter at Kentucky, young guy and people thought he would be a great recruiter at Ole Miss, but Ole Miss is not really a factor for many top 100 players. In fact Vic Shafer at MSU is doing a better job, and he is the opposite of the young, up and coming assistant like Insell was. Shafer is a much older coach who was known for his defensive X's and O's, but if you staff well and hire good assistants that can make up for some recruiting deficiencies.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
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| Posted: 12/26/15 1:28 pm ::: Re: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
Others? |
Christine Dailey? She's never moving and it's probably too late for her to really blossom as a head coach anyway, but there would be interest if she made herself available.
Don't even think about Niele... |
Dailey is never going anywhere, and I don't even consider her an active candidate for this topic. Famous head coaches sometimes have career sidekicks like Dailey, but it's much rarer and arguably unhealthy for a head coach to have two or three.
Why not Niele Ivey and Carol Owens from Notre Dame? They have outstanding resumes. Beth Cunningham doesn't qualify for the topic -- which should more accurately refer to a first-time head coaching job -- because she's already been a head coach.
The topic isn't whether a partisan fan wants some assistant at his or her school to head up, but whether that assistant is highly qualified to do so. |
Carol Owens was already a head coach at Northern Illinois from 2005-2010, with an overall winning percentage of 44.9%. That is what is tricky about picking these up and coming assistants, people just throw out names of assistants from programs that are elite, and it is really hard to tell how important that said assistant is, especially in recruiting. Take UConn, kids are probably going there for Geno, the championships, the TV exposure, facilities, just a variety of reasons. An assistant coach may be the lead recruiter on a kid but is it easy to serve in that role? Can that same assistant attract top kids to a program that is rebuilding and has no history to sell? That is what separates the good recruiters from the great recruiters, and really trying to predict the future success is like a crapshoot. Put Shea Ralph at Arizona and let's see what she does, and then put an assistant from say Boston College at UConn and see if UConn's recruiting changes much.
I thought Matt Insell was known as a top recruiter at Kentucky, young guy and people thought he would be a great recruiter at Ole Miss, but Ole Miss is not really a factor for many top 100 players. In fact Vic Shafer at MSU is doing a better job, and he is the opposite of the young, up and coming assistant like Insell was. Shafer is a much older coach who was known for his defensive X's and O's, but if you staff well and hire good assistants that can make up for some recruiting deficiencies. |
I absolutely agree. Great post!
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8231
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 12/26/15 6:27 pm ::: Re: Assistants ready to head on up, and, . . . |
Reply |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
. . . in some cases, why don't they?
Shea Ralph.
Who has a stronger record for time in grade? She was a superstar as a player in high school and college, helped turn around the Pitt program during a five year coaching stint, and is in her eighth year at super power UConn.
She's 37. How long should one wait to take a first head coaching job? What are you waiting for, Shea?
Others? |
Christine Dailey? She's never moving and it's probably too late for her to really blossom as a head coach anyway, but there would be interest if she made herself available.
Don't even think about Niele... |
Dailey is never going anywhere, and I don't even consider her an active candidate for this topic. Famous head coaches sometimes have career sidekicks like Dailey, but it's much rarer and arguably unhealthy for a head coach to have two or three.
Why not Niele Ivey and Carol Owens from Notre Dame? They have outstanding resumes. Beth Cunningham doesn't qualify for the topic -- which should more accurately refer to a first-time head coaching job -- because she's already been a head coach.
The topic isn't whether a partisan fan wants some assistant at his or her school to head up, but whether that assistant is highly qualified to do so. |
Carol Owens was already a head coach at Northern Illinois from 2005-2010, with an overall winning percentage of 44.9%. That is what is tricky about picking these up and coming assistants, people just throw out names of assistants from programs that are elite, and it is really hard to tell how important that said assistant is, especially in recruiting. Take UConn, kids are probably going there for Geno, the championships, the TV exposure, facilities, just a variety of reasons. An assistant coach may be the lead recruiter on a kid but is it easy to serve in that role? Can that same assistant attract top kids to a program that is rebuilding and has no history to sell? That is what separates the good recruiters from the great recruiters, and really trying to predict the future success is like a crapshoot. Put Shea Ralph at Arizona and let's see what she does, and then put an assistant from say Boston College at UConn and see if UConn's recruiting changes much.
I thought Matt Insell was known as a top recruiter at Kentucky, young guy and people thought he would be a great recruiter at Ole Miss, but Ole Miss is not really a factor for many top 100 players. In fact Vic Shafer at MSU is doing a better job, and he is the opposite of the young, up and coming assistant like Insell was. Shafer is a much older coach who was known for his defensive X's and O's, but if you staff well and hire good assistants that can make up for some recruiting deficiencies. |
I either forgot or never knew about Owens' head coaching stint. Thanks. So forget her for this topic.
I agree with your post, but we can't just conclude that identifying high potential assistants is nothing more than a crapshoot. Nor can AD's and hiring committees.
The important skills for a head coach are recruiting and teaching. Surely those attributes were seen in many of the top head coaches today when they were assistants, such as Frese, Walz, Mitchell and McGuff. In fact, I recall hearing about the talents of these four when they were assistants. I suppose the best source of information on the recruiting and teaching effectiveness of assistant coaches would be honest reports from their former and current head coaches and players.
I don't think a "great resumé" assistant like Ralph would take a graveyard job like Arizona. She can probably wait for school that has "self-recruiting" potential such as North Carolina or Rutgers.
Marisa Moseley might in fact be the more effective assistant at UConn than Ralph. Geno has given her very high praise in terms of her impressive personality and demeanor.
In any event, we can make some guesses about current assistants who might get the next openings at the better schools. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/26/15 8:19 pm ::: |
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| Geno does not have a great track record when it comes to his former assistants becoming good head coaches.
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I ain't got a home
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/26/15 10:30 pm ::: |
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| I suspect if Shea Ralph goes anywhere it would be North Carolina. She is a Carolina girl, after all, and I think would be pretty well received even though she didn't play for the Tarheels.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 12/26/15 11:21 pm ::: |
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If I was a North Carolina fan I would be very disappointed with a Shea Ralph hire. What has she done to deserve a top job like UNC? She needs to prove it by going and winning as a head coach at a less prestigious program. UNC is a fantastic job, they should be hiring someone proven. For all we know Shea Ralph is the next Tonya Cardoza or Jamelle Elliott. Have any of Geno's assistants from the last 5-10 years left and won big?
Matthew Mitchell was a head coach at Morehead State before going to Kentucky. Kevin McGuff was a head coach at Xavier before going to Washington and then Ohio State. Brenda Frese was a head coach at Ball State before going to Minnesota and then Maryland.
I didn't say Ralph should be a head coach at Arizona, I was saying if she was there as an assistant, there would be no chance anyone would be talking about her for a top job. Does she have any talent evaluation skills? UConn recruits from such a small pool of elite players, that does not prepare you for 99% of jobs where you can't walk in late and get in the mix with any kid.
Looking on Twitter, Ralph doesn't seem to be very active on social media. See, that's another thing UConn assistants can probably get away with. They don't need to promote themselves or their program to kids, its such an easy sell. Things like that just show that the UConn job is so much different than your normal job and they may be behind the eight ball.
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joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 12/27/15 10:32 pm ::: |
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| Megan Duffy? Although, I do see her as the next ND assistant if Ivey or Owens leave.
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dtrain34
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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Location: Lacey, Washington
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| Posted: 12/28/15 8:08 pm ::: |
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| At the mid-major level , New Mexico State's Tamara Inoue is associate head coach for a conference champ that has won 31 of its last 36 games -- two losses to P5s -- and is credited with much of the Aggies growth. She has also been named Interim SWA at NMSU giving her the added admin experience needed in D1 head coaching.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/28/15 10:28 pm ::: |
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Forgive me for being politically incorrect, but...there are people who would much rather be Indians than chiefs. I know, because I'm one of them. I tried management briefly in my particular field. Hated it. Was glad to go back to being regular staff.
In the same vein, there are plenty of assistants who would never in a million years want to be head coaches. They know who they are. Some of us probably do too.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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| Posted: 12/29/15 12:48 am ::: |
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Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville.
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 12/29/15 3:34 am ::: |
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| It does seem like most head coaches who are really successful get started when they are relatively young. I guess that either their personality is such that they want the power and don't want to wait, or their potential is recognized and developed right away.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 12/29/15 3:32 pm ::: |
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Some assistant coaches would prefer to remain that way. Less pressure and stress than being a head coach.
I also suspect that some assistants feel that if they take on a head coaching job, the old "Peter Principle" will come crashing down on them.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 12/29/15 5:05 pm ::: |
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| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/30/15 9:50 am ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60. |
Tennessee that hired Lane Kiffin as head coach and you would question this still? 
I kid, I kid....
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/30/15 1:26 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60. |
Tennessee that hired Lane Kiffin as head coach and you would question this still?
I kid, I kid.... |
THAT, and Vince Dooley, were what got Mike Hamilton fired.....and then they went and hired Heartless Dave. At least Hammy had supported women's sports and left them the hell alone. He was a doofus, but not an a**hole.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 861
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| Posted: 12/30/15 2:25 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60. |
Tennessee that hired Lane Kiffin as head coach and you would question this still?
I kid, I kid.... |
THAT, and Vince Dooley, were what got Mike Hamilton fired.....and then they went and hired Heartless Dave. At least Hammy had supported women's sports and left them the hell alone. He was a doofus, but not an a**hole. |
I think you meant to say Derek Dooley.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/30/15 9:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Davis4632 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| dtsnms wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60. |
Tennessee that hired Lane Kiffin as head coach and you would question this still?
I kid, I kid.... |
THAT, and Vince Dooley, were what got Mike Hamilton fired.....and then they went and hired Heartless Dave. At least Hammy had supported women's sports and left them the hell alone. He was a doofus, but not an a**hole. |
I think you meant to say Derek Dooley. |
I did. He thought he was Vince. So did Hammy, apparently. Not the case.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Down South
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| Posted: 12/31/15 11:55 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
Shea Ralph would be a good get for a program. There will be all kinds of opportunity for her when she is ready, if she decided that she wanted to be a head coach.
Dont knock on Mr Insell. Heard today his name is one of the names being floated around in Knoxville. |
Did I really knock Insell? I was just talking about recruiting and its not easy to project which assistants will be good recruiters as a head coach. Insell is a young guy, coached AAU ball and has a lot of connections but as of right now I don't know how you can say Ole Miss is recruiting better than their in state rival Mississippi State. Nobody talked about Shaefer as a top recruiter, which illustrates the challenge of identifying coaches who will recruit well.
Not sure why Tennessee would already be talking about coaching replacements but even if they were, this is a 3rd year coach who has losses this year to Missouri State, Louisiana Lafayette, Middle Tennessee State, Southern Miss, and Tulane. Maybe they were talking about his father, HC at MTSU? Find it hard to belive Tennessee would want a coach who is a little younger? I think he's already 60. |
Matt Insell would be a 5 Star upgrade to the current coach of the Vols.
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