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Taoduck
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
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 Posted: 04/05/08 12:54 am ::: |
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Pat doesn't have to do or say a damn thing.
Like it or not, she has the power to make the schedule.
For all we know, she got sick of Geno's aftershave year after year.
Why do folks feel that Pat has to explain herself?
She ended it and doesn't want to talk about it.
We could speculate forever, but why?
It won't change a thing. The series is over.
Why can't folks just respect her decision?
Strike a line and get on with your lives.
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 12:56 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| luvDhoops wrote: |
| ghostmutt wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| In any event, suppose it is recruiting issues. That covers a lot of territory, a lot of it involving different perceptions of what's ethical and what's not or what's fair and what's not, even without considering what's permitted under the NCAA's rules and what's not. (Just for instance, there's probably nothing in the NCAA rules that prohibits telling someone's mom that a lot of lesbians go to a particular school, true or not.) |
One of the more confounding rumors I've seen on the Internet is that the cancellation was due to Geno casting aspersions about the sexuality of either Pat or her players. I read this on the Summitt, so it might be total bunk. It was mentioned in connection with the recruitment of Chamique Holdsclaw.
If there was any truth to that, why did Pat wait until now to cancel the series? Why not ten years ago? Especially if it was an ongoing thing. As saavy as Geno is, why would he resort to something as dumb and obvious as stirring up homophobic fears to make his case? He'd know that the recruit would take his comments right to Pat. Same thing with the divorce issue. If he says that the Tennessee program isn't a family, it has the same undertones. I don't see Geno as having enough hatred toward Pat (back then, anyway) to resort to something like that. Besides, even in those days he had plenty of positives to sell his program without having to resort to negative insinuations.
I think it's more likely the recruiting violations. But some of the stuff Pat turned him in on was either baseless (the car ride) or petty (the sign for EDD). And hinting that these things are just the tip of the iceberg--without outright saying it---sounds like the same kind of smear tactics the Vols fans accuse Geno of using. |
Hey, here's me posting reply number 5 or 6 to something I'm absolutely tired of. 
Anyway, I've heard his named implied under the same circumstances with a different female coach (hint, hint TV) not that I'm saying it's true. But, in all honesty, I wouldn't put it past Geno just knowing the sort of things he's said and insinuated publicly that make some people cringe.
And, as beknighted said, even if you could prove he was saying these things, it's not like its a violation and what coach would wanna hold a press conference disclosing that sort of information. |
Like What? He says what he's thinking, and occassionally he puts his foot in his mouth? But insinuations...I haven't heard them.
And that's exactly the problem, people think these insinuations are possible. And it's because PAT isn't talking that his name isn't clear, if he didn't do such things. That's not right. And if he did, Pat should let the public know.
That's why some Uconn fans are pissed..because even though we keep hearing that "this is tiresome" we also keep hearing the inneuendos and insinuatinos..as well as "it's Geno's fault." And the reason why people can say things like that is because Pat won't open her mouth. |
Whoa calm down. I didn't say anything about it being Geno's fault. I was just pretty much saying what you just said. He's very brash and the insinuations I'm talking about is nothing more than stuff I've heard him say with regards to his players. It's specifically stuff with regards to Houston, like saying he can't play her or insinuating that maybe Connecticut wasn't the program for her.
Just like you said, he says what's on his mind. I wouldn't say he puts his foot in his mouth. He's a grown man and pretty much has come across with sarcasm in many things he says.
I really wouldn't care if he's said these things or not. If he did, it's shady, but certainly not against the rules. If he didn't, then good for him and everybody who ever said Geno's said these things is just wrong. All I said is, with Geno's sharp tongue and sarcasm, I wouldn't put it past him to slip in a little lesbian jab in the conversation with a recruit or a recruits parents with regards to a female coach. That's just my opinion and that's just how he comes across to me. Like I said, I don't care personally cause I ain't Pat. And, even if he did say these things, they could have just as easily had the opposite effect.
Anyway, this is just me... not caring again. Sunday can't get her quick enough.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 3:44 am ::: |
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| Taoduck wrote: |
Pat doesn't have to do or say a damn thing.
Like it or not, she has the power to make the schedule.
For all we know, she got sick of Geno's aftershave year after year.
Why do folks feel that Pat has to explain herself?
She ended it and doesn't want to talk about it. |
For someone who claims to play any team at any location and who has been committed to the growth of the sport, taking away the sports premier rivalry without explaining why seems at odds with what she claims she stands for.
If you look at the school's respective message boards, they are obsessed with each other.
If you look at the Final Four, it is full of UConn-Tennessee stories.
The two programs have combined to win 12 out of the last 22 titles. No other rivalry comes close to involving two teams with that much history and championship hardware.
She can schedule how she chooses. But the insinuations about Geno (the athletic director saying it was about recruiting, stating Geno knows her reasons why she couldn't continue, etc.) have left a bad taste with many who viewed Pat as one of the main ambassadors for the sport.
Could you imagine if Duke decided not to play UNC in men's hoops? If the Yankees decided not to play the Red Sox? UConn-TN isn't just the premier women's basketball rivalry. It is basically the ONLY one. Other rivalries are based on those from other sports; UConn-TN is a WCBB-specific rivalry for which there is nothing similar.
Had she just ended it and not let out insinuations of wrongdoing or having her AD make statements about recruiting, it would be one thing. But she and the AD opened the door...and yes, she owes people, including Geno, an explanation. If Geno did do something wrong, he should be reported. If he didn't, she is just dragging his name in the mud...and being underhanded, the way she hints that he has been.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 04/05/08 10:57 am ::: |
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| Taoduck wrote: |
Pat doesn't have to do or say a damn thing.
Like it or not, she has the power to make the schedule.
For all we know, she got sick of Geno's aftershave year after year.
Why do folks feel that Pat has to explain herself?
She ended it and doesn't want to talk about it.
We could speculate forever, but why?
It won't change a thing. The series is over.
Why can't folks just respect her decision?
Strike a line and get on with your lives. |
Because it's not just a decision about her. She's a coach that represents the game, NCAA, her university, the fans and her players. She's not still in the 3rd grade. She should have been and should be able to to deal with the problem professionally,remove herself from the mix and do whats best for her players, fans, NCAA etc.. Her players deserve more, that's why they went to Tennessee.....to play the best.
Again, it's exactly what she yelled at Shannon Bobbit during a game, "It's not about you!"
No coach should be given the exclusive power to discontinue a National game...........legend or not.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 3:23 pm ::: |
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| RavenDog wrote: |
| No coach should be given the exclusive power to discontinue a National game...........legend or not. |
Disagree. She can schedule how she chooses. My issue is with the explanation...or lack thereof. Like I said, had she just ended it and not let out insinuations of wrongdoing or having her AD make statements about recruiting, it would be one thing. But she and the AD opened the door...and yes, she owes people, including Geno, an explanation. If Geno did do something wrong, he should be reported. If he didn't, she is just dragging his name in the mud...and being underhanded, the way she hints that he has been.
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dukemayo
Joined: 27 May 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 3:53 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
UConn-TN isn't just the premier women's basketball rivalry. It is basically the ONLY one. Other rivalries are based on those from other sports; UConn-TN is a WCBB-specific rivalry for which there is nothing similar.
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Interesting observation. I'm tried to come up with a sport-specific rivalry in football or men's basketball that's anywhere close to UConn-Tenn in women's basketball. I don't think there is one. Notre Dame-Southern Cal might have reached that level of intensity in football if they'd both been Top 10 or better every year.
But if UConn-Tenn is indeed one-of-a-kind, your observation is leading me to a different conclusion: That it may be the sign of an immature sport to have one rivalry matter so much and, therefore, not a bad thing to have it over as an every-year event.
For one thing, the media attention probably contributed to one of those two programs collecting the National Player of the Year just about every year.
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 7:39 pm ::: |
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| dukemayo wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
UConn-TN isn't just the premier women's basketball rivalry. It is basically the ONLY one. Other rivalries are based on those from other sports; UConn-TN is a WCBB-specific rivalry for which there is nothing similar.
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Interesting observation. I'm tried to come up with a sport-specific rivalry in football or men's basketball that's anywhere close to UConn-Tenn in women's basketball. I don't think there is one. Notre Dame-Southern Cal might have reached that level of intensity in football if they'd both been Top 10 or better every year.
But if UConn-Tenn is indeed one-of-a-kind, your observation is leading me to a different conclusion: That it may be the sign of an immature sport to have one rivalry matter so much and, therefore, not a bad thing to have it over as an every-year event.
For one thing, the media attention probably contributed to one of those two programs collecting the National Player of the Year just about every year. |
X__________________________
This has been my line of thinking. If the entire community of women's basketball is gonna explode because one rivalry gets canceled and THAT rivalry is pretty much deemed as the be-all, end-all of our sport, then dear God, it's TIME to get some new rivalries. It's my opinion that no other attention can be paid to other rivalries and teams because the media ONLY EVER wants to focus on Tennessee and Connecticut. That was a good thing 10 years ago. But for this to be the ONLY rivalry that the media focuses its attention on 10 years later, that's not good at all and can half way be viewed as an obstacle for the spotlight to be placed on all of our other great rivalries.
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 7:48 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| No coach should be given the exclusive power to discontinue a National game...........legend or not. |
Disagree. She can schedule how she chooses. My issue is with the explanation...or lack thereof. Like I said, had she just ended it and not let out insinuations of wrongdoing or having her AD make statements about recruiting, it would be one thing. But she and the AD opened the door...and yes, she owes people, including Geno, an explanation. If Geno did do something wrong, he should be reported. If he didn't, she is just dragging his name in the mud...and being underhanded, the way she hints that he has been. |
Actually when she initially canceled it she didn't give any explanation at all. Then the insinuations began coming out of the various fan groups. Then because of the pressure TO say something, that's when the AD, when asked if recruiting was "a part of it" said, yes.
Maybe someone familiar with the rules can provide some insight, but if there is still an investigation going on aren't both sides instructed to keep quiet? I mean, to me, both sides have been relatively quiet when asked. Geno just says he doesn't want to have anything to do with her and Pat just smiles.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 8:26 pm ::: |
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| luvDhoops wrote: |
| Actually when she initially canceled it she didn't give any explanation at all. Then the insinuations began coming out of the various fan groups. Then because of the pressure TO say something, that's when the AD, when asked if recruiting was "a part of it" said, yes. |
And that was the problem. Either tell the story or don't. But don't sit there and make insinuations to malign Geno Auriemma. Either he did something wrong or he didn't.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 8:34 pm ::: |
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| Just for the record, I wasn't trying to suggest anything about what Geno might or might not have said (and, in particular, I wasn't suggesting he had spread rumors about her sexuality), or even that he said anything. It was just a hypothetical example.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 9:20 pm ::: |
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When one individual shuts down a great rivalry that history shows the entire country enjoyed, and I'm telling you that people overseas enjoyed it too, then without any getting explanation it seems petty, spiteful, disrespectful to the game of basketball and disrespectful to millions of fans.
I'm no hardcore college hoops fan by any stretch but even I've got some nice memories of great games between these 2 perennial powerhouse teams. You've only got to read some of thatGAgirl's great Throwback Thursday pieces to understand the impact these games have made.
I don't understand the process behind the scheduling of games, but it's the potential for ridiculous, self-destructive moves like this that makes me wonder why Pat, Geno or any other coach should have any say in it in the first place.
A lot of people have touched on the negatives of the series being cancelled. What I'd like to hear is what the positives have been. Until I hear some, I can only continue to strongly dislike what has happened.
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hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/05/08 9:24 pm ::: |
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| Pat can do whatever the h*ll she wants. She doesn't need to answer to anyone (well, expect the athletic director at Tenn). She's the unrivaled top coach in women's basketball, and Geno needs to earn the right to play her team. End of story.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 9:33 pm ::: |
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| hooper1 wrote: |
| Pat can do whatever the h*ll she wants. She doesn't need to answer to anyone (well, expect the athletic director at Tenn). She's the unrivaled top coach in women's basketball, and Geno needs to earn the right to play her team. End of story. |
Then she should stop claiming that she is all about building the game and that she will play anyone, anywhere. What she did had nothing to do with building the game.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 9:33 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
When one individual shuts down a great rivalry that history shows the entire country enjoyed, and I'm telling you that people overseas enjoyed it too, then without any getting explanation it seems petty, spiteful, disrespectful to the game of basketball and disrespectful to millions of fans.
I'm no hardcore college hoops fan by any stretch but even I've got some nice memories of great games between these 2 perennial powerhouse teams. You've only got to read some of thatGAgirl's great Throwback Thursday pieces to understand the impact these games have made.
I don't understand the process behind the scheduling of games, but it's the potential for ridiculous, self-destructive moves like this that makes me wonder why Pat, Geno or any other coach should have any say in it in the first place.
A lot of people have touched on the negatives of the series being cancelled. What I'd like to hear is what the positives have been. Until I hear some, I can only continue to strongly dislike what has happened. |
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/05/08 11:08 pm ::: |
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Seriously..I'm just gonna let Cam answer for me, he says just about what I'm thinking every time?
Pat can play who ever she chooses. Just quit making like "She'll play anyone" because she won't.
And either clear Geno (and Maya, and Sue, and Diana, Elena, and Caroline's) name, or report him. And let it be known. Don't open the door, which her and the AD did. (Pat infering that Geno and Uconn's program are not as moral as her's, and the AD's comment about Moore.)
Pat doesn't have to say exactly why she canceled the series, but something like "Look, Geno didn't do anything wrong, but the reason for canceling the series is between us."
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Taoduck
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/06/08 10:00 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Could you imagine if Duke decided not to play UNC in men's hoops? If the Yankees decided not to play the Red Sox? UConn-TN isn't just the premier women's basketball rivalry. It is basically the ONLY one. Other rivalries are based on those from other sports; UConn-TN is a WCBB-specific rivalry for which there is nothing similar. |
With all due respect, conference/division rivalries need to be left out of this discussion- those games are a required part of the schedule, and schools/teams can't choose to not play them. I'd even question talking about pro rivalries here, unless it's the NFL or AL-NL rivalries; those games are always played, even if it's just a home-and-home for teams from different conferences. Yes, Duke/UNC and Yankees/Red Sox are bitter, nasty rivalries- but I don't think they're the proper examples to use in this situation. (And for the record, as a New Yorker, I'm sick to death of the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry and the 817 pages it gets every time either team sneezes.)
FWIW, it'd be nice to see an explanation, but the folks who have their panties in a twist about it really need to focus on other things like, say, Stanford or LSU tonight, depending on your loyalty.
As a Rutgers fan, of course, my answer to UConn versus Tennessee is "a pox on both your houses!"
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dukemayo
Joined: 27 May 2005
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| Posted: 04/06/08 10:51 am ::: |
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(Upfront disclosure: I'm not a fan of either program and will be rooting for LSU and Stanford this evening.)
It's been said that Summitt hasn't explained why she cancelled the series.
I think what's meant is that she hasn't given a public explanation. I don't think Auriemma has disputed this statement by her:
"Clearly, Geno knows exactly why I canceled the series. I articulated that to him in a phone conversation. I was very upfront and straightforward with him. I think that it was something that needed to be discussed with Geno and no one else. That's why I chose not to comment [publicly]."
That's the last substantive on-the-record comment by either of them. It followed (note, followed) his saying "She should just come out and say she's not playing us because she hates my guts." So it's Auriemma's turn to comment.
But no reporter has yet asked him whether what Summitt said is true and, if it is, what she gave him as her reasons. Someone really should ask him. She isn't the only one not being open and candid if he can recall the conversation.
That said, I too would like for Summitt to be more specific by at least characterizing the general nature of her reasons. After the Final Four, she should get together with her lawyers and see if they can craft a statement that would shed more light on her reasons without leaving her too open to a suit.
The reasons don't have to be possible NCAA rules violations. They could be what she sees as violations of fair play, mutual respect etc.
Either way, if she'd clarify the question of possible rules violations versus violations of unwritten norms, we'd have a better idea of the nature of her reasons. And we'd see if Auriemma acknowledges that something other than general dislike is involved.
Note: Quotes are as reported in this msnbc column--
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23816561/
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hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/06/08 11:16 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| hooper1 wrote: |
| Pat can do whatever the h*ll she wants. She doesn't need to answer to anyone (well, expect the athletic director at Tenn). She's the unrivaled top coach in women's basketball, and Geno needs to earn the right to play her team. End of story. |
Then she should stop claiming that she is all about building the game and that she will play anyone, anywhere. What she did had nothing to do with building the game. |
Show me a quote where she said she'd play anyone, anywhere, anytime. Again, she can do whatever she wants, whether you like it or not. Basketball will go on without a Uconn/Tenn game every year.
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 04/06/08 1:54 pm ::: |
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I think it's inaccurate to claim that just because Pat canceled one series means that "she'll play anyone anywhere" is false. Please, that's ONE series and Pat continued to do so for over the past ten years when NO ONE outside of the Big East even thought of doing so. Now because she decides to cancel it, then she's totally selfish? WTF? The woman who just this year played Rutgers, UNC, Duke, ND, Oklahoma, Stanford, UCLA, Texas, MDTS, and a host of others I can't even remember, is now suddenly no longer an ambassador for the sport? Give me a freakin' break. It's her choice to cancel whatever OUT OF CONFERENCE GAME she wants.
Just as someone mentioned, GENO HAS NEVER refuted the claim that he knows why she canceled. So if he knows and she knows then that's really all that matters, especially if the reason is something either she or he would rather keep private. If Geno is being presented as such the bad he's had EVERY opportunity to tell everyone the reason. Obviously it's something neither wants to get out. They won't play in the regular season, will probably have ample opportunity in the post season to play and I am perfectly fine with that.
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braveniler58
Joined: 30 May 2007
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| Posted: 04/06/08 2:09 pm ::: |
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| Yes, but even if Geno does know why, Pat should be the one to tell us why, because SHE is the one who cancelled it, not Geno. You are right, she does have every right to do so, but it would be nice for us to know why.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/06/08 3:28 pm ::: |
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| luvDhoops wrote: |
| I think it's inaccurate to claim that just because Pat canceled one series means that "she'll play anyone anywhere" is false. Please, that's ONE series and Pat continued to do so for over the past ten years when NO ONE outside of the Big East even thought of doing so. Now because she decides to cancel it, then she's totally selfish? WTF? The woman who just this year played Rutgers, UNC, Duke, ND, Oklahoma, Stanford, UCLA, Texas, MDTS, and a host of others I can't even remember, is now suddenly no longer an ambassador for the sport? Give me a freakin' break. It's her choice to cancel whatever OUT OF CONFERENCE GAME she wants. |
First of all, Pat threatened to cancel the Duke series if the Crazies went after Hornbuckle again.
If she ends up following through, that would make two of the top five programs over the past ten years that she has decided not to play.
| luvDhoops wrote: |
| Just as someone mentioned, GENO HAS NEVER refuted the claim that he knows why she canceled. So if he knows and she knows then that's really all that matters, especially if the reason is something either she or he would rather keep private. If Geno is being presented as such the bad he's had EVERY opportunity to tell everyone the reason. Obviously it's something neither wants to get out. They won't play in the regular season, will probably have ample opportunity in the post season to play and I am perfectly fine with that. |
Actually, you are incorrect. When Pat first made the statement that Geno knows why, he denied that he knew why.
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p_d_swanson
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 04/06/08 3:37 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| When Pat first made the statement that Geno knows why, he denied that he knew why. |
Because he's so much more believable...
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/06/08 3:40 pm ::: |
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| p_d_swanson wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| When Pat first made the statement that Geno knows why, he denied that he knew why. |
Because he's so much more believable... |
Whether he is or not is another matter. She says he knows why, he says he doesn't. Who should come forward? Probably the person who made the decision to end the series...
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luvDhoops
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 04/06/08 3:57 pm ::: |
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Threatening to cancel a series in an attempt to protect your player is all together different from actually following through on it as you know. And, since this is Hornbuckle's last season, I'm pretty sure that the Wal-Mart bag taunt is a thing of the past and so is the issue of potentially canceling the series.
What I find most important is WHO's to say Pat or Geno or anyone should tell why the series ended? We the fans? A journalist?
You're right, immediately after it broke that the series was canceled he said he didn't know why, but....
It could be perfectly true that right after the word came down he didn't know. However, time had passed from the initial news to the point where Pat said HE DID KNOW. So in that time period, it is perfectly possible that she told him, because since then, he's never denied knowing the reason.
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