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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PalaceAthena
Joined: 02 May 2005
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 Posted: 03/26/08 10:03 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
well, i'd rather be a fan of a GG-coached team than say, an andy landers-coached team. but i'd prefer to be a baylor fan over either.
there aren't too many teams in WCB (any at all?) that win a NC and then don't contend. purdue, maybe?
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| hoopfan24 wrote: |
agree with GG over Andy
would add ND to the second pt |
Agree with both of you guys, re: GG over Andy.
Not to be picky here, but actually Purdue was a major contender after they won their 1999 championship. The Boilers got back to the championship game in 2001. They were also in the Elite 8 in 2003 and 2007.
Notre Dame is probably closer to the model. They haven't been to a Final Four or even an Elite Eight since 2001. And prior to this year, they had only made the Sweet 16 twice since 2001.
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Sass
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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Location: where it's sunny and warm
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| Posted: 03/26/08 10:28 pm ::: |
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| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
Well...we have jumped around a lot here and I thought we were talking about Joanne Boyle.
OK - Joanne just finished her third season as head coach at Cal after being head coach at Richmond for 3 seasons. So she's got six seasons in as a head coach, following 9 years as an assistant at Duke. Just taking a quick look at some stats, it would appear that she is on a gradual upward direction. Each season, she seems to get just a little bit farther. She is only 44 years old, and I don't think she's reached her peak. We're also mixing some men's bball coaches in here, and you really can't compare the two at this point in time. What we do know is that she has taken the Cal women's program and turned it around, to the delight of everyone who cares about it. |
Agreed. And it's interesting that there are any questions about Boyle considering the rest of the Pac-10, which is stagnating. Cal has come from nowhere to rise to the top of the conference, and is one of only a very few teams repping the west coast in this tourney.
Yes, Charmin Smith is also making a difference.
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Koopster
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 03/27/08 10:08 am ::: |
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| njjosh wrote: |
| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
But where do you balance the sustained, consistent excellence at the highest of levels with winning a national title and not being a contender in other years? |
I think I'd take sustained, consistent excellence over winning a national title and not being a contender in other years. |
I'll admit you have a fair argument - it's the same one Dean Smith defended himself with when he came under attack the first 15-20 years of his career, when he kept getting North Carolina to near the mountaintop but never actually there.
On the flip side, though, you have Jim Valvano. His 1983 NC State team got on a roll in the postseason and won a national championship when the Phi Slamma Jamma Houston Cougars choked in the final minutes of the title game. He never came close to winning a national title again, and coached his final game before his 45th birthday (this all before cancer tragically took his life). But because of that championship, he became an icon in the sport.
Contrast this with Gene Keady, who at the same time was building a perennially strong program at Purdue. He always won plenty, but he never won the big one or even reached the Final Four. Consequently, for all of his wins, he's never been an icon the same way his coaching peers like Dean Smith and Coack K, who did win it all, were. |
This Purdue fan would trade in a title for 10 years worth of sustained excellence. I don't take the winning years for granted though...because 85% of basketball doesn't have either. Another good example is Rollie and Villanova...although he doesn't have the legacy of Jimmy V, he never built any momentum after what I consider the biggest upset I have ever witnessed. That game even forced a rule change.
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Koopster
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 03/27/08 10:27 am ::: |
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| PalaceAthena wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
well, i'd rather be a fan of a GG-coached team than say, an andy landers-coached team. but i'd prefer to be a baylor fan over either.
there aren't too many teams in WCB (any at all?) that win a NC and then don't contend. purdue, maybe?
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| hoopfan24 wrote: |
agree with GG over Andy
would add ND to the second pt |
Agree with both of you guys, re: GG over Andy.
Not to be picky here, but actually Purdue was a major contender after they won their 1999 championship. The Boilers got back to the championship game in 2001. They were also in the Elite 8 in 2003 and 2007.
Notre Dame is probably closer to the model. They haven't been to a Final Four or even an Elite Eight since 2001. And prior to this year, they had only made the Sweet 16 twice since 2001. |
Maybe USC? Notre Dame has struggled and I'm pretty sure Texas Tech hasn't made a final 4 since although they have always been pretty good until the past 3 years.
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BlueLiner
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 12:11 pm ::: |
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| njjosh wrote: |
| Changing the topic slightly, I've seen what McKeown did last night and what he's done for years at GW and wonder what he could do in a major conference with major conference players and facilities. |
Please a white man will not get a chance. Trakh getting the USC job a few years ago is the exception, not the rule.
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gpark33
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 12:34 pm ::: |
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I had wondered that myself - seems like a strange thing to say.
Especially in a thread that is supposed to be about Joanne Boyle.
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BlueLiner
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 12:35 pm ::: |
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| You're a joke if you don't think race and gender has anything to do with hiring.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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BlueLiner
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 12:53 pm ::: |
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| Do you have a clue? Or sorry stupid question, with every post you prove you don't have a clue. So please continue.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 12:59 pm ::: |
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No, you continue.
Making the statement that a white man can't get hired in a major conference is asinine.
Keep going. Tell us more.
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Crown Him the Lord of years,
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Creator of the rolling spheres,
Ineffably sublime
John 1:1-5
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gpark33
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/27/08 1:16 pm ::: |
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| BlueLiner wrote: |
| You're a joke if you don't think race and gender has anything to do with hiring. |
What is your basis for the claim? I personally think race and gender both have a ton to do with hiring (unfairly) in the current world which is all the more reason I am shocked by your statement. Now if you had said, "please, he's a white man, he's a shoe in for the job," I would not have been shocked at all.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 03/27/08 1:56 pm ::: |
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| gpark33 wrote: |
| BlueLiner wrote: |
| You're a joke if you don't think race and gender has anything to do with hiring. |
What is your basis for the claim? I personally think race and gender both have a ton to do with hiring (unfairly) in the current world which is all the more reason I am shocked by your statement. Now if you had said, "please, he's a white man, he's a shoe in for the job," I would not have been shocked at all. |
Just to pick out some white males hired last year:
Arkansas - Tom Collen (replaced white female)
LSU - Van Chancellor (replaced a black female)
Louisville - Jeff Walz (replaced a white male)
Michigan - Kevin Borseth (replaced a white female)
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BlueLiner
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:02 pm ::: |
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| gpark33 wrote: |
| BlueLiner wrote: |
| You're a joke if you don't think race and gender has anything to do with hiring. |
What is your basis for the claim? I personally think race and gender both have a ton to do with hiring (unfairly) in the current world which is all the more reason I am shocked by your statement. Now if you had said, "please, he's a white man, he's a shoe in for the job," I would not have been shocked at all. |
I'll type very, very slowly, so even somebody like you can understand.
I replied to a post about how the GW coach would do in a major conference. Well the man's been at GW forever and it's not like GW just started winning. He one hell of a coach. But you ever hear his name when the bigger jobs opened up? NOoooo
Now somebody just posted a list of white males who got jobs at some bigger schools. But the only coach who moved from a "mid major" school is Borseth who went from GB to Michigan.
Collen, Colorado St, Vandy before he got screwed, then Louisville then Arkansas.
Van Chancellor had already been a head coach in the SEC.
Waltz was an assistant at Maryland who won a National Championship two years ago.
Now pay very close attention, this is were it will be tough for somebody like you to understand.
The only coach who fit the GW coach's description, moving up from a mid major is Borseth.
Before Borseth, Trakh from Pepperdine to USC.
Now I did say Trakh was the exception, not the rule. So it does and has happened.
Now did I type slow enough for you?
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gpark33
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:11 pm ::: |
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| BlueLiner wrote: |
I'll type very, very slowly, so even somebody like you can understand.
I replied to a post about how the GW coach would do in a major conference. Well the man's been at GW forever and it's not like GW just started winning. He one hell of a coach. But you ever hear his name when the bigger jobs opened up? NOoooo
Now somebody just posted a list of white males who got jobs at some bigger schools. But the only coach who moved from a "mid major" school is Borseth who went from GB to Michigan.
Collen, Colorado St, Vandy before he got screwed, then Louisville then Arkansas.
Van Chancellor had already been a head coach in the SEC.
Waltz was an assistant at Maryland who won a National Championship two years ago.
Now pay very close attention, this is were it will be tough for somebody like you to understand.
The only coach who fit the GW coach's description, moving up from a mid major is Borseth.
Before Borseth, Trakh from Pepperdine to USC.
Now I did say Trakh was the exception, not the rule. So it does and has happened.
Now did I type slow enough for you? |
Are you naturally an asshole or do you have to work hard for it? I'm not even going to go any further with you on this ridiculous claim. It's clear to me that you aren't capable of discussion on a level that you can't riddle with insults.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:29 pm ::: |
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[quote="gpark33"]
| BlueLiner wrote: |
I'll type very, very slowly, so even somebody like you can understand.
I replied to a post about how the GW coach would do in a major conference. Well the man's been at GW forever and it's not like GW just started winning. He one hell of a coach. But you ever hear his name when the bigger jobs opened up? NOoooo
Now somebody just posted a list of white males who got jobs at some bigger schools. But the only coach who moved from a "mid major" school is Borseth who went from GB to Michigan.
Collen, Colorado St, Vandy before he got screwed, then Louisville then Arkansas.
Van Chancellor had already been a head coach in the SEC.
Waltz was an assistant at Maryland who won a National Championship two years ago.
Now pay very close attention, this is were it will be tough for somebody like you to understand.
The only coach who fit the GW coach's description, moving up from a mid major is Borseth.
Before Borseth, Trakh from Pepperdine to USC.
Now I did say Trakh was the exception, not the rule. So it does and has happened.
Now did I type slow enough for you? |
Very slowly. Thanks.
So, your claim is that a white male at a mid-major is disadvantaged compared to everybody else, and the proof is that very few of them move over to major conference teams. The next question is how many mid-major female, black and black female coaches move over to major conference teams.
I'll give you McCallie and Boyle to start. However, it seems fairly likely to me that the answer is that most hiring at the major conference level is done by hiring other major conference head coaches and assistant coaches, and that relatively few mid-major coaches get hired to run major conference programs.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:34 pm ::: |
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| Typing slowly only makes you the a$$hole, we can still all read at the same speed.
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Grumps
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:51 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| gpark33 wrote: |
| BlueLiner wrote: |
| You're a joke if you don't think race and gender has anything to do with hiring. |
What is your basis for the claim? I personally think race and gender both have a ton to do with hiring (unfairly) in the current world which is all the more reason I am shocked by your statement. Now if you had said, "please, he's a white man, he's a shoe in for the job," I would not have been shocked at all. |
Just to pick out some white males hired last year:
Arkansas - Tom Collen (replaced white female)
LSU - Van Chancellor (replaced a black female)
Louisville - Jeff Walz (replaced a white male)
Michigan - Kevin Borseth (replaced a white female) |
Mitchell at KY would be another example...
Grumps
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 6861
Location: The Cathedral of Snark
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| Posted: 03/27/08 3:53 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| The next question is how many mid-major... black female coaches move over to major conference teams. |
Curious to see the answer for this one... |
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Koopster
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 444
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| Posted: 03/27/08 4:30 pm ::: |
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| Keegan wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| The next question is how many mid-major... black female coaches move over to major conference teams. |
Curious to see the answer for this one... |
Not many I would guess...Felisha Legette-Jack at Indiana is one.
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BlueLiner
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: 03/27/08 4:48 pm ::: |
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| gpark33 wrote: |
| BlueLiner wrote: |
I'll type very, very slowly, so even somebody like you can understand.
I replied to a post about how the GW coach would do in a major conference. Well the man's been at GW forever and it's not like GW just started winning. He one hell of a coach. But you ever hear his name when the bigger jobs opened up? NOoooo
Now somebody just posted a list of white males who got jobs at some bigger schools. But the only coach who moved from a "mid major" school is Borseth who went from GB to Michigan.
Collen, Colorado St, Vandy before he got screwed, then Louisville then Arkansas.
Van Chancellor had already been a head coach in the SEC.
Waltz was an assistant at Maryland who won a National Championship two years ago.
Now pay very close attention, this is were it will be tough for somebody like you to understand.
The only coach who fit the GW coach's description, moving up from a mid major is Borseth.
Before Borseth, Trakh from Pepperdine to USC.
Now I did say Trakh was the exception, not the rule. So it does and has happened.
Now did I type slow enough for you? |
Are you naturally an asshole or do you have to work hard for it? I'm not even going to go any further with you on this ridiculous claim. It's clear to me that you aren't capable of discussion on a level that you can't riddle with insults. |
I'm sorry for not typing slow enough for you. But I still love you. Hugs and kisses to you.
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CalwbbFan
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Sass
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/27/08 10:15 pm ::: |
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| Kurt Budke came to OKSt from a mid-major.
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