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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 03/25/08 3:09 pm ::: JoAnne Boyle |
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| I know the Duke fans don't like Coach P., and it may turn out to be rightly so, but I have to say this. If you think Boyle would have been an improvement, I don't think so. I don't see anything in any Cal game I've seen this season that proves she is suited for the Duke job, IMO. Her teams can't score, they are very out of shape and look very lethargic out there to me. You all know Joanne more than I do, so am I onto something here or am I completely wrong?
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 3:10 pm ::: |
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| Cal has no depth. Lenita Sanford didn't qualify, and Boyle basically plays six players. Cal gets some help next year.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 3:20 pm ::: |
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| Cal's program is growing. Before Boyle, where were they? In three seasons they have made tremendous progress. I would not say that a team that made it to round 2 can't score and looks lethargic. Boyle consistently says that it's a total team effort, a we're-all-in-this-together approach. I think she did a good thing passing on the chance to go to Duke. Good for Cal, and given the improvement in the quality of Cal's program, also good for the Pac-10 as a whole.
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hoopfan24
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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| Posted: 03/25/08 3:29 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Cal has no depth. Lenita Sanford didn't qualify, and Boyle basically plays six players. Cal gets some help next year. |
Losing Rama on Sat. night hurt Cal big time. They are getting help next year, but in the back court, not front court where they need it more.
Recruiting at Cal is always going to be tough because of having to compete with Stanford. However, I think Charmin Smith will help.
Boyle made the biggest MISTAKE by not having her team organized in the last few plays and not calling the time out herself. 14 TOs to GW's 7, and only going 8-20 from the line were also big reasons why they lost.
Last edited by hoopfan24 on 03/25/08 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 3:53 pm ::: |
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| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| Cal's program is growing. Before Boyle, where were they? |
They hadn't had a winning record since 1992-93. Boyle's first three seasons at Cal are comparable to Goestenkors' first three at Duke.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:02 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| Cal's program is growing. Before Boyle, where were they? |
They hadn't had a winning record since 1992-93. Boyle's first three seasons at Cal are comparable to Goestenkors' first three at Duke. |
It was a rhetorical question but thank you, pilight, for your response. I wish that a couple more coaches of Boyle's caliber would come into the Pac-10. It would raise the bar in our conference for sure.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:23 pm ::: |
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| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time.
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njjosh
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:35 pm ::: |
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| Changing the topic slightly, I've seen what McKeown did last night and what he's done for years at GW and wonder what he could do in a major conference with major conference players and facilities.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:36 pm ::: |
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| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win.
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2Old4Title9
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:53 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win. |
Pilight, you are a walking encyclopedia. Was Boyle an assitant to Gail G at the time?
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njjosh
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 4:57 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win. |
Let's hope the rest of Boyle's career isn't comparable to the one put forth by Goestenkors, at least as far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:01 pm ::: |
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| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win. |
Pilight, you are a walking encyclopedia. Was Boyle an assitant to Gail G at the time? |
Yes, she was. She came on board for Coach G's second season at Duke in 1993-94. Before that she was playing professionally in Europe.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:01 pm ::: |
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| njjosh wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win. |
Let's hope the rest of Boyle's career isn't comparable to the one put forth by Goestenkors, at least as far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned. |
"During her final ten seasons at Duke, Goestenkors led the Blue Devils to NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen appearances every year, seven Elite Eight appearances, four Final Four appearances, and two appearances in the NCAA Championship game. During her tenure, her teams won five ACC tournament championships and eight ACC regular season titles. Goestenkors holds the ACC record for fewest games required to achieve 300 wins (387 games)." From Gail's Wikipedia page.
Well...different folks have different standards, but I don't think Gail Goestenkors has done too badly.
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Crown Him the Lord of years,
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njjosh
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:36 pm ::: |
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| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| njjosh wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
This too is comparable to Goestenkors in year three, when Duke exited in round two after a 121-120 quadruple OT loss to Alabama that the Debs had many chances to win. |
Let's hope the rest of Boyle's career isn't comparable to the one put forth by Goestenkors, at least as far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned. |
"During her final ten seasons at Duke, Goestenkors led the Blue Devils to NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen appearances every year, seven Elite Eight appearances, four Final Four appearances, and two appearances in the NCAA Championship game. During her tenure, her teams won five ACC tournament championships and eight ACC regular season titles. Goestenkors holds the ACC record for fewest games required to achieve 300 wins (387 games)." From Gail's Wikipedia page.
Well...different folks have different standards, but I don't think Gail Goestenkors has done too badly. |
Also has yet to win a national championship in spite of all those deep tournament runs. And with a lot of very bad losses to boot:
1998 #2 seed, lost in Elite Eight to #9 Arkansas
2001 #1 seed, lost in Sweet 16 to #5 SW Missouri State
2003 #1 seed and ranked #1 in country, lost in Final Four to Tennessee team it beat by 21 during regular season
2004 #1 seed, lost in Elite 8 to #7 Minnesota
2006 #1 seed, lost in championship game to a far less experienced Maryland team after twice leading by 13 in the second half
2007 #1 seed, lost in Sweet 16 to #4 Rutgers
A good coach, yes. But not one at the level of Pat, Geno and others who have produced champions, and not just winners. If she wins a national title at Texas, then I'll change my opinion of her.
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pilight
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:37 pm ::: |
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| There are 300 or so schools that would be thrilled to have the level of success Goestenkors had at Duke.
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2Old4Title9
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:40 pm ::: |
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| And adding to that - since there is only ONE winner at the end of it all I think that once you are into the Sweet 16 and beyond you really have nothing to be ashamed of. Pat & Geno are definitely at the top of the hill, but if anything less than that level is "unacceptable" to you, then I hope you expect just as much of yourself, whatever your profession is.
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Crown Him the Lord of years,
The Potentate of time
Creator of the rolling spheres,
Ineffably sublime
John 1:1-5
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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njjosh
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:55 pm ::: |
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| 2Old4Title9 wrote: |
| And adding to that - since there is only ONE winner at the end of it all I think that once you are into the Sweet 16 and beyond you really have nothing to be ashamed of. Pat & Geno are definitely at the top of the hill, but if anything less than that level is "unacceptable" to you, then I hope you expect just as much of yourself, whatever your profession is. |
It's not just that she hasn't won it, but she's lost too many times to teams Duke should have beaten.
And it's not "unacceptable" as much as it is what separates her from not just Pat and Geno, but Muffet McGraw, Tara VanDerVeer, Kim Mulkey-Robertson and others who have built programs into actual champions. Until she does likewise, Gail isn't at that level. Same with Andy Landers, Vivian Stringer, Debbie Ryan and the others who have built winning programs over a number of years but not championship ones.
And no, I don't put Carolyn Peck in that group either, because she was only there two years, won a title with Lin Dunn and Nell Fortner's recruits, and bolted for the pros before the last strand of net was cut down.
Last edited by njjosh on 03/25/08 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caune
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 5:55 pm ::: |
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| RavenDog wrote: |
| Boyles end of game blunders and lack of big game experience were quite evident during the last 12.9 seconds of the game. I feel sorry for her players in having to lose the way they did but these things happen. I think most people know Boyle is a good coach and will become even better in time. |
her players were just as much to blame.
Why the hell wasn't Walker demanding the ball at the end and why was she hanging out so far from the basket?
And Hampton needs to be healthy to play, she was dragging that bum knee around like a peg leg.
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Last edited by caune on 03/25/08 7:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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hoopfan24
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| Posted: 03/25/08 6:03 pm ::: |
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| can't really blame Gail for Toliver hitting that 3 in the Final Four. Just bad luck for them, I was sitting in the MD section, but pulling for Duke.
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njjosh
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/25/08 6:14 pm ::: |
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| hoopfan24 wrote: |
| can't really blame Gail for Toliver hitting that 3 in the Final Four. Just bad luck for them, I was sitting in the MD section, but pulling for Duke. |
That may have been bad luck. What wasn't just bad luck was how Duke blew two very big leads in that game. What wasn't bad luck was how they let a jittery and inexperienced Maryland team hang around and come back when they could have taken a 20+ point lead early and buried them (North Carolina should have done the same thing in the semifinals and also blew it). What wasn't bad luck was how Maryland showed far more poise and maturity at the end of that game than its far more experienced and battle-hardened opponent.
If Duke does any of those things, that game would have been over long before Tolliver dropped in that 3-pointer.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 03/25/08 6:18 pm ::: |
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| This isn't the most pleasant topic for Duke fans. Next?
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fancy_daniel
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PRballer
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| Posted: 03/25/08 6:54 pm ::: |
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| Boyle is a good coach and those Cal players have developed nicely. Alexis Gray Lawson turned the ball over on the last offensive possession and failed to box out on the last defensive possession - let's not sum up her coaching acumen in one unfortunate sequence of calls.
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hoopfan24
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| Posted: 03/25/08 7:12 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| Boyle is a good coach and those Cal players have developed nicely. Alexis Gray Lawson turned the ball over on the last offensive possession and failed to box out on the last defensive possession - let's not sum up her coaching acumen in one unfortunate sequence of calls. |
Gray-Lawson had position on the air ball shot by GM, but GW player fouled hip checked her and knocked her to the floor. No call.
Minus Walker, Cal sucked at the FT line.
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