| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19763
Back to top |
 Posted: 01/22/08 1:56 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| umbeta1455 wrote: |
I know Montgomery now has more of an option to shoot, but why is she just throwing up everything. She did have some good timely buckets, but going 9-24 isn't good. That is the most shots by anybody for both teams.
Having her as an option is a good thing. But there are other players on her team who should be taking more shots. |
It bothers me when she does that, and she's the point guard..she's not anymore, and she was the only husky doing anything in the first half..so it didn't bother me that much.
A set offense is what Uconn is going to struggle with. Losing possibly three players, Thomas understood it extremely well and was quite often the player directing traffic, and Dixon is a freshman point guard. And although she seems to be very good at handling a press, and at defense, she doesn't strike me as the "run the offense amazingly well" type of point guard. Therefore, I think a lot of the set offense is going to now be "Maya and Renee one on one and as much transition as possible." I'd rather Maya be the one to go one on one more often, but I have the feeling it will be mostly Renee.
There was a stretch in the second half, when she took quite a few bad shots in a row, but other than that there weren't too many shots I was unhappy with.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 2:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
There are three constants in Sylvia Hatchell's UNC teams:
1. Out of control guards.
2. Turnovers.
3. One WTF white girl who starts...Sell/Claytor...I think Gray will be next in line.
Erlana Larkins and Kia Vaughn might be the most unloved post players in the nation. Trust--If Summitt or Auriemma had a beast like Larkins in the post, you know they would run offenses right through her.
UConn had no answer for Pringle yet Sylvia would rather let McCants sulk and shoot her way into a loss.
Chay Shegog, welcome to hell. Your hostesses will be Rashanda McCants and Cetera DeGraffenreid. |
I agree with much of that, but I do think Gray has some talent. She's not one of the "attendance boosters" like Sell and Claytor.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19763
Back to top |
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 2:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| umbeta1455 wrote: |
| I know Montgomery now has more of an option to shoot, but why is she just throwing up everything. She did have some good timely buckets, but going 9-24 isn't good. That is the most shots by anybody for both teams. |
9-24 is a terrible percentage, but Montgomery is a shooting guard right now. Shooting guards can take 20-25 shots as long as most of them are good looks (and I think only five or so of Renee's looks were of the really crappy variety). Point guards are the ones who shouldn't take 20+ shots unless they're shooting 50% or better from the field.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
|
|
spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 392
Location: new york, ny
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 2:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
| Point guards are the ones who shouldn't take 20+ shots unless they're shooting 50% or better from the field. |
I imagine bball's version of hell includes coaching a team consisting of Ajavon/Montgomery/Latta/McCants...
As rough as I am on UNC, I still think they're right there when it comes to the final four. I can't think of a frontcourt better than UNC's right now. Yes, some might be equal, but I don't think any come close to how well-suited their forwards/centers are to their style of play.
|
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
|
spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 392
Location: new york, ny
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 3:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
| They have a great frontcourt, but it's the backcourt that needs to step up (in terms of decision-making) for UNC to even entertain the notion of reaching the FF. |
I know. Right? My assumption is that UNC's frontcourt is good enough to and should be able to overcome coaching and McCants.
I also wonder about Lucas...I think she's probably a bit more stable than DeGraff. and she seems to look for her forwards etc. more than CD.
|
|
sbjules
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3476
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 3:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
| Coleman vs.Moore- Slight edge to Coleman because she's more seasoned. |
Huge edge to Coleman, imho. At least for now.
|
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 4:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
| I know. Right? My assumption is that UNC's frontcourt is good enough to and should be able to overcome coaching and McCants. |
It could happen and has happened before. Baylor's frontcourt led the team to a NC even though the backcourt was nothing to write home about. Then again, the backcourt consisted of a junior (who played a year with the Monarchs) and a redshirt senior PG.
Then again, I don't see "Sophia Young" on UNC's roster. She was just a special talent. I don't think UNC has a "special talent" on the roster these days. Good players? Absolutely. "Special talents"? Probably not.
| Quote: |
| I also wonder about Lucas...I think she's probably a bit more stable than DeGraff. and she seems to look for her forwards etc. more than CD. |
If it were up to the staff, they would've started Lucas at the point from the beginning. She just wasn't ready, however. Miller wasn't ready either, but she was the senior. DeGraffenreid played well off the bench behind Miller while Lucas was a hot mess. When Miller went down, the staff pretty much pressed DeGraffenreid into the starting role without allowing her and Lucas to battle for the starting position. But Italee seems to have grown up a lot since November. And, as I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if she was starting ahead of DeGraffenreid at the point before the season's over. She's bigger and has a better-looking shot. To me, she outplayed DeCaffeinated in the Tennessee game and looked calmer during the UConn second-half surge.
Honestly, I don't see much of a difference between Jasmine Thomas and Cetera DeGraffenreid. Yet commentators brag incessantly about the latter and not the former. They're both score-first guards who have struggled with the transition to high-level D-1 basketball. IMO, neither is a good point guard at this stage in their careers. Yes, DeGraff does score, but you can do that when you're getting to the line six times a game against the Sacramento States and Coastal Carolinas of the world. Thomas has shown that she can actually shoot against decent and good competition--yet she's the one who's the most maligned of the highly-touted ACC freshman players. I don't get it.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
|
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 4:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
As for the Coleman/Moore debate, I think they're almost equal (with Maya being better). Maya is just that good, folks. This is no ordinary freshman.
ETA: I lost my mind there for a sec. Maya is better than MC. Not a knock at Coleman, but there isn't really anything that Coleman can do that Maya can't wrt skills.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
Last edited by bballfan2005 on 01/22/08 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 392
Location: new york, ny
Back to top |
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 4:50 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
Hmmm..since Italee is neither a midget nor white or a white midget...I don't think she starts.  Lucas just looks a little bit more mature. I may be confusing playing at a slower pace as mature |
No, I think I see some of the same stuff you see. Lucas is better at controlling tempo. If she doesn't have a clear path to the basket in transition, she'll pull it out and try to run a set. Of course, Hatchell would rather she force a 30-foot lead pass to a cutting post player and watch it sail 10 feet out of bounds than watch her team run a set. With UNC's three-point shooting being a step below terrible, I think the only way they can score consistently in the halfcourt is via offensive putbacks.
| Quote: |
| but there's just something about DeGraffenreid (god that's one long f'n name) that rubs me the wrong way. |
For me, it's her attitude. She scowls more than any freshman I've ever seen. I wonder if she kicks puppies.
There seems to be a sense of entitlement WRT DeGraffenreid (i.e. the "I run the show, y'all are just spectators" attitude), and I just don't think she's earned that right. She might need to calm down and wait her turn. This is supposed to be Larkins' team, right Sylvia?
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't see much of a difference between Jasmine Thomas and Cetera DeGraffenreid. |
Neither do I. But that might just be the result of the system they're in. There are so many t/o's in a UNC game that you blame just one player. And for god's sake, it made Nikita Bell + Coretta Brown look fabulous... |
That's true, which is why I blame the coach more than I blame the players. The players come and they go. The coach has been there for over 20 seasons now.
| Quote: |
| And as for Thomas, I still don't understand what JPM has done to Abby Waner. |
McCallie doesn't let Emily play (even though she should--we need a PG who can run the show), and that ticks off Abby.
| Quote: |
| I'm not really up to the ACC freshman race. Is Thomas really maligned? I like the speed she brings, and she seemingly brought Duke to a tie with MD when they last played (She was a 5-0 run). |
Thomas is probably the most heavily scrutinized freshman in the ACC per the commentators. I realize that she came in with a gaudy reputation, but she's a freshman trying to learn how to run the point for a coach who isn't exactly fit for the job. It's been a struggle, but Jasmine, IMO, is a decent player. She might suck as a PG, but she's got some skill.
By comparison, folks like Carolyn Peck make DeGraffenreid out to be all-world--and I just don't see it.
| Quote: |
| Strickland looks like a year away from making an impact and looks like she's deferring to upperclassmen. |
Well, she looked pretty good against UVA Friday night after throwing up a stinker against Duke. I think she gets more of a green light when Park (the male assistant coach) is coaching as opposed to Frese. With Frese, Strickland knows she's the fifth option. With Park, it seems as though she gets chances to shine.
| Quote: |
CD-I guess so?  |
Doubt it. Right now, the race is down to those two Boston College giants (Carolyn Swords and Stefanie Murphy) and Alex Montgomery of Georgia Tech. If the season ended today, Murphy would probably win. This is the second year in a row that a non-Maryland/UNC/Duke player will win ACC ROY.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
|
|
ThreeBall25
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2791
Back to top |
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
|
spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 392
Location: new york, ny
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 5:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
re: Coleman vs. Moore--I don't know if I've been brainwashed by Scout's columns, but I saw Moore get a look in her eye that she wasn't going to let her team lose. She then proceeded to hit a dagger 3 right after Montgomery.
For now though, I think Coleman is more polished.
| Quote: |
For me, it's her attitude. She scowls more than any freshman I've ever seen. I wonder if she kicks puppies.
There seems to be a sense of entitlement WRT DeGraffenreid (i.e. the "I run the show, y'all are just spectators" attitude), and I just don't think she's earned that right. She might need to calm down and wait her turn. This is supposed to be Larkins' team, right Sylvia? |
I think with Latta it was a necessity. Hatchell needed someone to instill a winner's mentality with a team that had a reputation for being soft (Candace Sutton?).
With a leader like Larkins (who leads by example) on the floor, theres no need for CD's chip on her shoulder.
| Quote: |
McCallie doesn't let Emily play (even though she should--we need a PG who can run the show), and that ticks off Abby. |
Is that really the cause of the slump in Abby's game?
| Quote: |
Thomas is probably the most heavily scrutinized freshman in the ACC per the commentators. I realize that she came in with a gaudy reputation, but she's a freshman trying to learn how to run the point for a coach who isn't exactly fit for the job. It's been a struggle, but Jasmine, IMO, is a decent player. She might suck as a PG, but she's got some skill. |
X_________
If you switch CD's and JT's teams, I think you'd see JThomas get better reviews. I guess I'm not sold on JPM. I think she's really cultivated Chante Black, but seems to have stifled Waner and Thomas.
|
|
bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 6:39 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
re: Coleman vs. Moore--I don't know if I've been brainwashed by Scout's columns, but I saw Moore get a look in her eye that she wasn't going to let her team lose. She then proceeded to hit a dagger 3 right after Montgomery.
For now though, I think Coleman is more polished. |
I tend to think that Marissa Coleman is more on level with Monica Wright than she is with Maya Moore. That's not even close to being an insult. Monica is a great player in her own right and is, IMO, the best all-around player the ACC has seen since Alana Beard. I've even gone so far as to call Wright "the next Alana Beard" or "right-handed Beard with a better perimeter shot". As for Moore, I think of her as "the next Cheryl Miller". Her ceiling is really, really high.
| Quote: |
I think with Latta it was a necessity. Hatchell needed someone to instill a winner's mentality with a team that had a reputation for being soft (Candace Sutton?).
With a leader like Larkins (who leads by example) on the floor, theres no need for CD's chip on her shoulder. |
I agree, which is why Latta will go down in history as the greatest women's basketball player at UNC. The Oompa Loompa didn't just score a bunch of points and flex her muscles for the crowd. She changed the culture of UNC women's basketball. They went from sometimes ACC title contenders to full-time national title hopefuls under Latta's watch. She did for UNC what Alana Beard did for Duke--put her school on the national landscape. I certainly didn't like seeing the midget have as much freedom with the basketball as she seemed to have (could take any shot she wanted, was allowed to turn it over at will, and didn't have to work very hard on defense), but no one can say that she wasn't a program-changer.
Now it's up to Larkins et. al to maintain the program. I think she needs to step up and become more of a vocal leader or else folks like McCants and DeGraffenreid will stir the ship off course this season. I agree with DeGraff having a giant chip on her shoulder. Not necessary, IMO. You aren't going to outshine Larkins in her senior year, so just do your job (i.e. get her the ball) and try smiling sometimes, hon. Nobody wants to see a scowling midget on national TV. 
Oh, and Candace Sutton is the biggest waste of 6-6 I've ever seen. Yes, I had to get that in there somehow! 
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
| Quote: |
| McCallie doesn't let Emily play (even though she should--we need a PG who can run the show), and that ticks off Abby. |
Is that really the cause of the slump in Abby's game? |
That's part of it. She and McCallie don't see eye-to-eye on ANYTHING, it seems. The other reason for the slump is Waner's lack of confidence in her shot. Yes, she'll keep taking shots. However, she doesn't have that "look" that most confident shooters have when they hoist from deep--the look that says she knows she knocked the shot down. Part of that has to do with Waner not getting as many easy buckets as she's accustomed to in the past. I used to joke about Abby and all her leak-outs last season, but they definitely helped her. She hardly ever fell into a slump last season unless it was health-related (like having the flu or something of the sort). This year, it's all mental. She isn't hurt and she isn't sick. She's just not very confident in what she's doing. A lot of that has to do with shitty leadership from the head coach.
| spikeybedhead wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Thomas is probably the most heavily scrutinized freshman in the ACC per the commentators. I realize that she came in with a gaudy reputation, but she's a freshman trying to learn how to run the point for a coach who isn't exactly fit for the job. It's been a struggle, but Jasmine, IMO, is a decent player. She might suck as a PG, but she's got some skill. |
X_________
If you switch CD's and JT's teams, I think you'd see JThomas get better reviews. I guess I'm not sold on JPM. I think she's really cultivated Chante Black, but seems to have stifled Waner and Thomas. |
I wish Jasmine was a year older so that she could've learned from Gail, Lindsey, and Emily. She wasn't ready coming out of high school to run the point at Duke as a freshman, and the U19 experience didn't really prepare her as much as we'd hoped. She needed to sit behind a D1 point guard and learn what it's like to play the position at a high level. I have to believe she chose Duke because she knew that Harding wouldn't be there when she arrived. All her other choices had veteran PGs in place, and her folks probably didn't want her sitting behind anyone even if it was only for a year.
I credit McCallie for making the effort to run the offense through Black, but McCallie really sucks when it comes to developing perimeter players. Chante is a pretty good passer for a post, so why not send her to the high post more often and run some back-doors for our guards/wings? It seems as though our troubles on offense are being attributed to Jasmine's inexperience and Abby's injury/illness issues, but this is not the first time in Duke history that we've started a freshman at PG nor is it the first time that we've dealt with players who struggled with injuries or illnesses.
_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
|
|
RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6878
Location: Home
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 6:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Wholeheartedly disagree.
Cetera DeGraffenreid, Jasmine Thomas and Loren Dixon are phenomenally gifted and talented athletes who are doing sensational jobs at PG for their respective teams, considering they are ONLY FRESHMEN.
North Carolina is a talented final four capable team. They have a great coach but unfortunately one of her shortfalls is changing the tempo of the game periodically and as necessary including, as mentioned, setting up and getting Larkins more involved in the offensive game. Until she becomes more versatile stylistically, I don't think North Carolina can be consistent enough to win it all. However, they definitely can beat any team on a given day.
Ketia Swanier played well considering. She made some timely steals and ran the team during the crucial moments. Her leadership, speed and quickness made the difference in the game at the right times when she backed up Loren Dixon. One of the unsung heros of the game IMO.
|
|
BCBG25
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20112
Location: Sampa
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/22/08 7:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| We'll set Larkins free in NY.
_________________
Kings of the World!
|
|
|
|
I meant to say Tennessee Tech. Coastal's RPI is actually not too shabby.