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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 250
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Posted: 01/21/08 9:53 pm ::: |
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Swanier was a Street and Smith All-American multiple times, Georgia State Player of the Year and I'd guess at least a national top 40/30 player- granted there are competing services that do these rankings.
So maybe UConn is down to 7 Top 30 recruits in its rotation? Maybe 8 if you include Hunter? I give them credit for assembling such a group. It is amazing. Looks like they'll have even more next year.
How many teams legitimately have anywhere close to such a stacked roster? UConn, Tenn., Duke, MD (3 HS AAs out for season with injury), UNC, Stanford, Rutgers?
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memphis10
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2273 Location: Elvis' back yard
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Mirage32
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: 01/21/08 10:20 pm ::: |
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LdyVolsFn wrote: |
UConn played well defensively. I think they shot really well tonight from 3 which isn't always going to be the case. UNC didnt use their inside presence nearly enough. I think if you compare the UNC team tonight to say Tennessee or Maryland the game might not have gone UConn's way |
Here we go again...Unfortunately we won't be able to have a resolution to such a debate before the post-season....
_________________ Diana Taurasi: "I also read that Tennessee and UConn aren't playing anymore, and all I can say is that is some bullsh**."
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spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 392 Location: new york, ny
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Posted: 01/21/08 10:25 pm ::: |
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Swanier was a Street and Smith All-American multiple times, Georgia State Player of the Year and I'd guess at least a national top 40/30 player- granted there are competing services that do these rankings. |
I'll give you that. But how good do you expect a Fifth Team Street and Smith All American to be?
In the past few years, UConn whiffed on a few of their guard prospects over the course of the years. Arriaran/Waner/Gemelos/Toliver. Not to mention missing out on a healthy Brittany Hunter, Appel, the Paris Twins and the Langhorne/Harper duo.
I'd venture to say that this 2008 version of UConn isn't as deep in the frontcourt as TN nor does it have a starting 5 as talented and as polished as Maryland.
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BBallFanCT729
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 2666 Location: UConn Territory
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Posted: 01/21/08 10:36 pm ::: |
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UNC does have a good team, but UConn was able to clamp down on them in the second half. Charde & Tina were just on a mission to deny anyone who tried to shoot in the lane in the second half.
Ketia was questionable tonight...but thankfully Charde/Tina/Maya/Renee played well enough to overcome that. Lorin, despite a few WTF moments (every player had them this evening), still did a great job for the situation she's in.
I am so happy for Charde...just a great game for her. Tina was an absolute monster, especially in the second half. She made Larkins look silly at times.
I'm also happy for this team...I think they needed this win. I'm so very proud of them. They have the biggest HEART and CHARACTER for a UConn team in a *long* time.
PROPS to the CROWD. Holy shoot were we loud!!! I hope that came across on TV.
What a game...what a second half. First half: UNC 44-UConn 33. Second half: UConn 49-UNC 27. Final: UConn 82-UNC 71.
UNC got beat at their own game. I have to say, UConn looked like the better conditioned team, as they can run all 40 min. if need be. Not sure if even UNC could completely do that.
Part of the UNC fan contigent was sitting next to my section...they were a passionate crew. I let them know that they have a good team (they do). I hope the UConn-UNC series continues.
Last edited by BBallFanCT729 on 01/21/08 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2815 Location: New York
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Posted: 01/21/08 10:37 pm ::: |
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spikeybedhead wrote: |
Quote: |
Swanier was a Street and Smith All-American multiple times, Georgia State Player of the Year and I'd guess at least a national top 40/30 player- granted there are competing services that do these rankings. |
I'll give you that. But how good do you expect a Fifth Team Street and Smith All American to be?
In the past few years, UConn whiffed on a few of their guard prospects over the course of the years. Arriaran/Waner/Gemelos/Toliver. Not to mention missing out on a healthy Brittany Hunter, Appel, the Paris Twins and the Langhorne/Harper duo.
I'd venture to say that this 2008 version of UConn isn't as deep in the frontcourt as TN nor does it have a starting 5 as talented and as polished as Maryland. |
I can't wait to see UCONN next year. Everyone talks about Elena Delle Donne and she is going to be a good one, but I can't wait to get Tiffany Hayes. We have never had a guard like her, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 250
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Posted: 01/21/08 10:52 pm ::: |
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I'm not sure UConn's starting 5 takes a back seat to anyone. That is an amazing crew.
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accommodatingly
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2191 Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Posted: 01/21/08 11:06 pm ::: |
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How can there be just two pages on this game? What a second half. What a first half for UNC, come to think of it, but what a second half for UConn. I didn't think they could do it.
UConn almost always gets better after the break, except when they don't need to get better, because they have the game in hand. (The exception, the Big East final two years ago, doesn't bear dwelling on.) Charde had her head in the right place at last, and Tina Charles fought through a dry spell on offense. UConn got more focused as the game went on, and UNC-- for the first time ever in a game I've watched-- got tired.
(Note on the ACLs: Mel Thomas is completely ineffective against a team this athletic-- she would have had limited minutes anyway, though Greene would have been good to have. Of course I wish they were both healthy, but only one of the two season-ending injuries had a big impact on this particular matchup.)
Wow.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19763
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Posted: 01/21/08 11:45 pm ::: |
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The game started off kind of depressing, we watched Mel hobble out there for her 1,000 point ceremony. She had a smile on her face. And then the game for the first half seemed to be somber, like the team's heart and rebounding was missing. The just seemed out of sync, which was to be expected. Mel Kalana and Brittany could have quite possibly had 80 minutes (or more) in this game, out of the 200..you would expect a team to be out of sync.
This was a great win, however I truly believe that Uconn is no longer the best team in the country. With Kalana and Mel, Uconn wins by double digits. (not anything against UNC, but Uconn was just that good) Not that I'm upset with the win...I just don't feel anymore optimistic about Uconn's circumstances (especially with Hunter possibly not being a huge part of the rotation.) I also don't think it's fair to say how well Thomas, Greene, or Hunter would have been. Syracuse and Louiville are athletic and Thomas played pretty well, and who knows whether Greene's shot would have been on or off, and Whether Brittany would have done an outstanding job defending Larkins. Moral of the story. I'm proud of these girls for winning, but I don't think this is a.."Uconn's still the best team in the country without Hunter, Thomas, and Greene" thing. Just a realistic feeling. Granted, we still have our three best players, and hopefully Charde continues to play like this.
The difference in this team for winning in a close game and losing in a close game was three things. Maya Moore, Charde Houston, and Renee Montgomery. Renee, although almost shooting us out of it, played just as well tonight as she did against the regular season game against LSU last year. She made big shots, she played great defense. She was outstanding. Maya Moore, wasn't going to lose this game. Plain and simple. And Charde Houston. I really think people are going to look back at the shot and steal against Syracuse, and pin point the positive change in Charde Houston's season. For the first time, Charde Houston won a game for the team, to see her confident and pumped up this game was amazing. There were people in back of me who kept talking about how bad she was, "pathetic" was the term...I made sure to cheer REALLY loudly whenever she did something positive. I also felt Lorin Dixon played pretty well. She was in the game when the big run happened, but
A few negatives..The out of syncness, and besides Uconn's run, they still looked a bit funny. As I said, I would expect it now, whether it remains is a whole other question. Ketia was not very good, although did have a few key steals. She turned the ball over a bit too much, and was good when we needed her to be. The halfcourt offense was poor. Especially when Meghan was in there. (It wasn't her fault.) If UNC is going to refuse to cover someone..whose at least made a few shots before, if she's going to play, her teammates need to have the confidence to pass it to her, and she needs to have the confidence to make the shots. Instead of forcing it into the paint where four UNC players are...Oh, and the refs blew, both ways. Although a few calls against Uconn they got right. (Charde's offensive foul, the over and back..)
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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kage
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 3495
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Posted: 01/22/08 12:04 am ::: |
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Darnit. I had to leave halfway through so I missed the second half. >:/ |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 01/22/08 12:18 am ::: |
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Nice win by UConn. The toughness to come back from being down by 11, to hold Carolina under 30 in the 2nd half, and to withstand the repeated Tar Heel runs was very impressive.
That said, I think I've finally found an answer to the question of why you want to play a good OOC schedule. Carolina had no real idea how to handle the end game behind by a few points. For instance, when there was an obvious "time to foul" situation, they let something like 24 seconds run off the clock before the first foul (and they still had 2 to go to get UConn into the bonus). And it wasn't like UConn was making it particularly hard to foul, either.
It also seemed to me that Carolina wasn't really very effective in the half court, partly because of UConn's defense and partly because it was too much work. I bet you could do a nice little chart showing Carolina's shooting percentage declining steadily the later a shot comes in the possession.
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RedEqualsLuck
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 4781
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Posted: 01/22/08 12:30 am ::: |
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I also wonder about fitness -- especially for a running team that doesn't care about TOs... when you're tired, bang, it all gets worse...
just looked at UNC OOC -- and you're right -- tn and uconn are the best matchups... and good ones they are, but no mid-level toughening tests...
_________________ When Jefferson wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," he didn't include the word "except."
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 25315 Location: Somewhere here and there
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Posted: 01/22/08 1:34 am ::: |
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accommodatingly wrote: |
How can there be just two pages on this game? |
Because I didn't get a chance to post during the game.
Let me start off by saying that I was cheering 100% for UConn in this game. It's mid-January, and I don't believe in conference camaraderie beyond New Year's. Plus, I love seeing Carolina get stomped in any sport, men's or women's. Saturday was a great day (watching the Hole men lose), and Monday was even greater (watching the Hole women choke in the second half).
What a great way to celebrate Dr. King's legacy by witnessing a fantastic display of athleticism and talent by such talented young women (the bulk of them being racial minorities). We are all beneficiaries of Dr. King's visions, so to be able to sit back and enjoy a full slate of action this past weekend (without having to worry too much about what's wrong in today's world) felt great. Can't ask for a better weekend--or a better basketball game. Now onto the observations:
Kaili McLaren would be a good one if she knew how to move her feet on defense and finish lay-ups on offense. I see potential in her.
Dixon did a decent job from what I saw. Ketia was a bit too hesitant with her shot, which is why she missed some easy ones. Overall, they kept the team from getting rattled and down on themselves even when the deficit ballooned to double-digits.
Charde had a coming-out party of sorts tonight. She played inspired basketball on a big stage against a non-UT opponent, which is headline news to some folks. I was impressed with what she was able to accomplish tonight. She didn't try to do to much, and it definitely helped UConn having her on the floor.
Maya didn't have a spectacular game, but she did some of the little things to help her team crawl back in it. She hit timely buckets. She played good defense on DeCaffeinated. She ran the floor in transition. Have to say that I wish her scoop lay-up would've dropped. It looked great.
Can't say enough about Tina Charles. She played like crap in the first half IMO yet rebounded (literally) quite nicely. If you can register 19 rebounds against UNC, you're pretty damn good. I am amazed when I look at her statline from tonight. That's domination.
Renee...love seeing her have the opportunity to carry a team offensively. While the original version of the team benefited from her adopting a pass-first mentality, the ACL remix version dictated that she become more of a scorer. And trust--Renee is a scorer. She was flat out amazing tonight. Even her misses looked good.
This is the most pathetic perimeter shooting UNC team I've ever seen. How can they expect to compete for a Final Four when some overmatched second-round team throws a zone at them? Sure, they sliced through UConn's zone in the first half. However, UConn isn't a zone team. Teams like Utah, Marist...those are potential second-round match-ups that could doom UNC if they can't find an outside shot. I can't see them going through the ACC unscathed if they can't find an outside shot. They do have to play games on the road, after all.
Rashanda McCants...why is she the leading scorer for UNC? She is not that good--vastly overrated, IMO. I have said that for years. I can name five shooting guards in the ACC who are better than McCants, and one of them is a FRESHMAN. If she weren't related to Rashad McCants (and if they didn't look like twins), most people wouldn't even know who the hell she is!
It's TRAGIC when an All-American candidate has to watch her scrub teammate take FOUR times as many shots as she in one of the biggest games of the season for the Holes. Hey Sylvia! Ever wonder why Larkins hasn't been named an All-American in previous years? It's because of YOU, dumb dumb! If you know you have a talented upperclassman post player, why not run the offense through her? Why continue to allow out-of-control guards to dominate the ball? I don't see why any post player would want to go to UNC. They're never going to get the ball with these ballhogging guards taking up all the shots.
Heather Claytor actually played well in the first half. I must say that I'm surprised. Didn't really expect her to hustle as much as she did. Having said that, I'm not so sure she should be starting for UNC. She's supposed to be a shooter, yet she's one of the worst three-point shooters in the conference this season. What gives?
All in all, this was a good game. I enjoyed the pace, the athleticism, and the heart displayed by both teams. For all the talk about UConn not being the same without Greene, Thomas, and Hunter (for the moment), they looked awfully good in the second half. I know Geno would rather have all three available to him at this point, but man--they're still pretty damn good.
_________________ Avatar: The King has his ring!
Mathies to LA 2013
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19763
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 25315 Location: Somewhere here and there
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umbeta1455
Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 1897 Location: Maine
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Posted: 01/22/08 8:33 am ::: |
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I know Montgomery now has more of an option to shoot, but why is she just throwing up everything. She did have some good timely buckets, but going 9-24 isn't good. That is the most shots by anybody for both teams.
Having her as an option is a good thing. But there are other players on her team who should be taking more shots.
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spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 392 Location: new york, ny
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Posted: 01/22/08 8:36 am ::: |
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Heather Claytor actually played well in the first half. I must say that I'm surprised. Didn't really expect her to hustle as much as she did. Having said that, I'm not so sure she should be starting for UNC. She's supposed to be a shooter, yet she's one of the worst three-point shooters in the conference this season. What gives? |
There are three constants in Sylvia Hatchell's UNC teams:
1. Out of control guards.
2. Turnovers.
3. One WTF white girl who starts...Sell/Claytor...I think Gray will be next in line.
Erlana Larkins and Kia Vaughn might be the most unloved post players in the nation. Trust--If Summitt or Auriemma had a beast like Larkins in the post, you know they would run offenses right through her.
UConn had no answer for Pringle yet Sylvia would rather let McCants sulk and shoot her way into a loss.
Chay Shegog, welcome to hell. Your hostesses will be Rashanda McCants and Cetera DeGraffenreid.
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spikeybedhead
Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 392 Location: new york, ny
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Posted: 01/22/08 8:47 am ::: |
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I'm not sure UConn's starting 5 takes a back seat to anyone. That is an amazing crew. |
Umm..Maryland?
Tolivervs.Dixon- Toliver wins this running away.
Strickland vs. Montgomery- Montgomery.
Coleman vs.Moore- Slight edge to Coleman because she's more seasoned.
Harper vs. Houston-Both are inconsistent, but Harper has proven herself on a big stage.
Langhorne vs. Charles-Edge to Langhorne for being a senior. But Charles has oodles more potential at the next level.
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I can't wait to see UCONN next year. Everyone talks about Elena Delle Donne and she is going to be a good one, but I can't wait to get Tiffany Hayes. We have never had a guard like her, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! |
UConn really recruited pieces that would help them. Doty and Hayes will help out Montgomery in the backcourt. Delledonne, if she's as good a shooter as people say, should open up lanes for Greene/Moore/Charles.
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waterloosunset
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 578 Location: washington, dc
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Posted: 01/22/08 9:12 am ::: |
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I just wanted to copy a quote from the only UNC player I've ever liked*:
"They did a great job of coming in to double team and we did a great job of standing.
Hahahaha.
*That would be Larkins.
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Whizzer
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 25
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Posted: 01/22/08 10:23 am ::: |
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UNC will be fine. They will return to their dominating ACC run over Maryland this Saturday. UConn will do the same in the BE.
UNC's 3-point shooting problem sat on the bench. Gray (despite other posts, is a white girl that can play), shoots around 40% and actually feeds the posts. But is still out with the stress fracture.
Rashanda needs to look inside as well. Forcing too many horse shots. Claytor can hit the open three but is very slow on defense.
UNC and UConn are both Final 4 teams in my opinion. You probably saw the best of both teams tonight.........UNC in the first half, UConn in the second. Both are capable of putting two good halves together on any given night. We'll see how it pans out in the end.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
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Posted: 01/22/08 10:42 am ::: |
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Whizzer wrote: |
UNC and UConn are both Final 4 teams in my opinion. You probably saw the best of both teams tonight.........UNC in the first half, UConn in the second. Both are capable of putting two good halves together on any given night. We'll see how it pans out in the end. |
I've got to say that you're going to have to do a lot more to convince me that UNC is a Final Four team. The Tar Heels have played two contenders this year and are 0-2. Their conditioning seems somewhat suspect, which I must admit does not entirely surprise me, but will be a problem in the tournament. Also, the UConn game showed that they're vulnerable if you can make them play half court, which is not the easiest thing in the world, but doable for most of the top tier teams.
UConn, on the other hand . . .
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Whizzer
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 25
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Posted: 01/22/08 12:02 pm ::: |
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I've got to say that you're going to have to do a lot more to convince me that UNC is a Final Four team. The Tar Heels have played two contenders this year and are 0-2. Their conditioning seems somewhat suspect, which I must admit does not entirely surprise me, but will be a problem in the tournament. Also, the UConn game showed that they're vulnerable if you can make them play half court, which is not the easiest thing in the world, but doable for most of the top tier teams.
UConn, on the other hand . . .[/quote]
UNC's half court/points in the paint were great in the first half. They should have dumped in down more often.
They have played two contenders that were #1 on the road, and were basically in both games until the end. If UT and UConn are contenders, so is UNC.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 4565 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: 01/22/08 12:49 pm ::: |
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Whizzer wrote: |
UNC will be fine. They will return to their dominating ACC run over Maryland this Saturday. |
Not sure what you mean here by "dominating." Yes, UNC beat the Terps last year, but the year prior, the Terps beat them in the regular season (at Carolina) and then in the Final Four nat'l semi-final.
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myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007 Posts: 3923 Location: California
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Whizzer
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 25
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Posted: 01/22/08 1:07 pm ::: |
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CourtsideTix wrote: |
Whizzer wrote: |
UNC will be fine. They will return to their dominating ACC run over Maryland this Saturday. |
Not sure what you mean here by "dominating." Yes, UNC beat the Terps last year, but the year prior, the Terps beat them in the regular season (at Carolina) and then in the Final Four nat'l semi-final. |
06-07 ACC Tournament Champions
05-06 ACC Tournament Champions
04-05 ACC Tournament Champions
36-6 regular season during those 3 years.
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