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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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dribbles21
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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 Posted: 10/18/07 11:24 am ::: |
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| I would add Xavier University as a team to watch.
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swinfan8187
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 168
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: 10/18/07 11:26 am ::: |
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yeah xavier has the potential to be pretty good. if they could get a more than decent PG w/ their two fowards theyre a great team.
idk why no one thinks marissa coleman is worthy of first team AA. she is arguably the best PLAYER on her team, maybe her conference, maybe the country. ill say the same for kalana greene.
go UConn and go ahead marissa coleman.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 11:53 am ::: |
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| Marissa Coleman, to me, is the most versatile player in the country. She could be all-conference at positions 1-4. She triple-doubled last year. I can look at other players on the list who have been ranked ahead of Marissa, even in high school, but Coleman usually outperforms them. She may well be Maryland's best player (all-around). I hate thinking that half of her college career is over.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 10/18/07 12:27 pm ::: |
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| I find it interesting (if not surprising) that CSTV has Matee Ajavon as a 2nd team AA and Essence Carson as a 3rd team AA. Ask anybody on the team (including Ajavon), and I'm sure you'd hear them say that Carson is much more important and a stronger all around player. They both have a lot to contribute, but Carson's the one who gets the other team's top player as a defensive assignment, for instance. I guess the issue, much like Chelsea Newton's, is that she sublimates her game to meet the team's needs, so it's harder to see the contributions.
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 10/18/07 12:39 pm ::: |
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| Toliver...Holy Cow! wrote: |
| Marissa Coleman, to me, is the most versatile player in the country. She could be all-conference at positions 1-4. She triple-doubled last year. I can look at other players on the list who have been ranked ahead of Marissa, even in high school, but Coleman usually outperforms them. She may well be Maryland's best player (all-around). I hate thinking that half of her college career is over. |
Uh, no.
Marissa Coleman is an excellent offensive wing. She is a pretty bad on-ball defender and doesn't appear to pay much attention to defense at all.
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fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles
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fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 10/18/07 12:50 pm ::: |
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| dribbles21 wrote: |
| I would add Xavier University as a team to watch. |
That and maybe Wyoming too.
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waterloosunset
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 578
Location: washington, dc
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| Posted: 10/18/07 12:51 pm ::: |
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| Toliver...Holy Cow! wrote: |
| I hate thinking that half of her college career is over. |
Me too, me too.
I don't know when they put it up, beccause I didn't stumble upon it until recently, but they've got a very fun Marissa highlights video on the Under The Shell page under All-Stars: http://umterps.cstv.com/undertheshell
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/18/07 12:59 pm ::: |
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| fancy_daniel wrote: |
| UCLA has a very strong top-25 recruitng class coming in. |
They also won only 14 games last year (missed the postseason entirely), and their best player moved on to the WNBA.
Preseason Top 25? I don't think so. They're not even preseason Top 100.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:01 pm ::: |
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Cam,
Always fun disagreeing with you. I'm not going to promote Marissa for Def POY, but she's a decent shot-blocker and a monster on the glass. She is the most versatile player in the country- backs up the point and can play any position up through 4 well. Shoots the 3 well. Can attack the basket. Can post. Has had double digits in assists in a game. Does what her team needs. Battles like heck. Can play in any style of game. Simply an amazing player.
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:15 pm ::: |
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| Toliver...Holy Cow! wrote: |
| I'm not going to promote Marissa for Def POY, but she's a decent shot-blocker and a monster on the glass. |
To be considered a good defender, you have to be able to do more than block shots and rebound. You either have to lock down your defender (lock-down defender) or force him/her where you want him/her to go (position defender). Coleman does neither.
Marissa might be a better defender at the 3 than at the 4 because she's getting blown by on the perimeter (not as much as the guards, but enough to notice).
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| She is the most versatile player in the country- backs up the point and can play any position up through 4 well. Shoots the 3 well. Can attack the basket. Can post. Does what her team needs. Battles like heck. Can play in any style of game. Simply an amazing player. |
Coleman plays two positions well--the three and the four. She's too slow for the one and the two on both sides of the ball. She averaged less assists in ACC play than Wanisha Smith (2-guard), Abby Waner (2-guard), Kirby Copeland (2-guard), and Maurita Reid (2-guard). She recorded less than half the assists in ACC play that the league leader recorded, and she averaged less assists per game than two freshmen (one of whom was Wake's PG, and that's just not good). Coleman's assist-to-turnover ratio did not rank among the leaders in ACC play (it was lower than Wake's Roulhac and FSU's Williams, both sporting 0.86:1 ratios). It's no shame in saying that Coleman can play two positions, but saying she can play four is a major stretch.
Marissa is a great player, but let's be real. She is the female version of Jared Dudley. To me, that's more solid than it is amazing. Still, "solid" wins games.
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| Has had double digits in assists in a game. |
Women's basketball "fans" don't care about assists. It's all about points and rebounds.
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:23 pm ::: |
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My love for Coleman is in the fact that she isn't amazing at anything, but she is strong in most facets of the game. She does need to improve her defense, but aside from Laura Harper, the Terps aren't exactly strong in that area.
Coleman will be a wing in the WNBA, and playing multiple positions isn't going to do anything to further her career unless she ups her foot speed to play the 2. With a solid 3 point shot, a knack for getting big rebounds, the ability to be a playmaker, and some decent handle, Coleman is one of the more complete players in the country, but she will need to outwardly excel in either points or rebounds to really get some additional press and reward.
She's one of my favorite players in the college game right now, but she also suffers from Maryland's indecision about who their go-to is at crunch time.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:26 pm ::: |
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| In games where she played a significant amount of minutes at the 1, you could see what she could do. I understand I have the advantage of seeing her in more games than you. This defender argument is a sidebar that I am not debating. Coleman can play 4 positions well. At the 2006 Final Four, she was 4 rebounds short of the record for two games. She's helped MD be one of, if not the best rebounding teams in the country for two years. She can run the break. She can start the break. She can finish the break. Most versatile player in the country.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:30 pm ::: |
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I'm a big believer that versatility equals value.
Indecision at crunch time? I guess it depends on how you look at it. I see it as...we have options. To me, it makes MD potentially harder to defend.
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/18/07 1:38 pm ::: |
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| Toliver...Holy Cow! wrote: |
| In games where she played a significant amount of minutes at the 1, you could see what she could do. I understand I have the advantage of seeing her in more games than you. This defender argument is a sidebar that I am not debating. Coleman can play 4 positions well. At the 2006 Final Four, she was 4 rebounds short of the record for two games. She's helped MD be one of, if not the best rebounding teams in the country for two years. She can run the break. She can start the break. She can finish the break. Most versatile player in the country. |
You act as if I don't see the games. I see plenty of Maryland games a year, as they're always on regional TV. Coleman is a 3/4, not a 1/2/3/4. She cannot play the 1 in the ACC, as every point guard in the ACC last year was a better decision-maker and every point guard minus Sarah Marshall and Kristi Toliver was faster and better defensively. She can't play the 2 in the ACC because every two guard minus Kindyll Dorsey and Mara Freshour was faster. She isn't a point guard just because she can make plays, as point guards do more than just "make plays". Rather, she's a facilitator of the offense--like Tracy McGrady, Chris Webber, and Dwayne Wade. To my knowledge, none of the players I named are/were PGs.
We've been through this before, THC. You severely overrate players from Maryland and even Duke and UNC players and thumb your nose at the rest of the players in the conference. The act is old, THC. It really is. Coleman is without a doubt one of the best players in the ACC and one of my favorite players in the entire country, but she's not capable of playing any position other than 3 and 4.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 2:50 pm ::: |
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Dude, if you're going to debate with me, do me the favor of not writing fiction. You have a habit of fabricating things and stating them as if they are true, mainly as part of your aggressive mantra. I have always mentioned players from a variety of teams in discussions. Not my fault if you don't remember them and not my job to reach back into history and reprint any of it for you.
And I disagree that I severly overrate anyone. Coleman is the most versatile player in the country. Maybe there are a handful of other players that can join the argument and that's part of the fun, but she has a compelling case. She can play 1-4. So you disagree. So what?
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/18/07 3:12 pm ::: |
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| Toliver...Holy Cow! wrote: |
| Dude, if you're going to debate with me, do me the favor of not writing fiction. |
Fiction??? I wasn't the one who came up with the ridiculous "Crystal Langhorne is the most underrated player in the country" claim, now was I? Langhorne has her worst offensive outputs against the better ACC teams, so how can she be considered "underrated"? Parker and Paris are the leading scorers in their respective conferences. Langhorne is barely Top 10 scoring-wise in hers.
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| You have a habit of fabricating things and stating them as if they are true, mainly as part of your aggressive mantra. |
Wrong. I have a habit of calling people out on their BS, as I've done here with you.
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| I have always mentioned players from a variety of teams in discussions. |
Sure you have. But they're no more than "decent players" or "garbagewomen" in your eyes if they don't play for Maryland, Duke, or UNC. You have a elitism-based bias, and it shows in every post you make.
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| Not my fault if you don't remember them and not my job to reach back into history and reprint any of it for you. |
See above. I remember them quite well, actually.
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| And I disagree that I severly overrate anyone. Coleman is the most versatile player in the country. Maybe there are a handful of other players that can join the argument and that's part of the fun, but she has a compelling case. She can play 1-4. So you disagree. So what? |
To you, she's the most versatile player in the country. To me, she's not much different than most combo forwards out there. What sets her apart slightly is her ability to shoot. Nothing else she does suggests that she can play four positions well. Just like people get sick of hearing that Candace Parker can play all five positions when she can only play two, expect people to disagree when you claim that someone with Coleman's numbers in ACC play can play four positions.
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Toliver...Holy Cow!
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 3:18 pm ::: |
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Somebody stop you before you strike again...
...you conveniently remember and cite selective things that fit the current argument you are attempting to make. Then you embellish/twist/place them in a context that fits the argument you are attempting to make. I enjoy fiction as much as the next person, but other than mindless entertainment, there is no point in discussing anything with someone who just makes things up and states them as if they are true.
Marissa Coleman is the most versatile player in the country.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/18/07 3:47 pm ::: |
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| Sorry, but if you consider both sides of the ball and compare sophomore seasons against one another, Erlana Larkins is more versatile than Marissa Coleman.
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 5:08 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Sorry, but if you consider both sides of the ball and compare sophomore seasons against one another, Erlana Larkins is more versatile than Marissa Coleman. |
My hunch is that Marissa Coleman has a better junior year than both Erlana Larkins junior and senior years.
The thing about Coleman for me is that she is always just going to fit into her teams well. She may never be the star, but she will always be a nice contributor. This is largely due to the fact that she isn't amazing at any facet of the game, though her rebounding can be quite spectacular at times.
Luckily, it's almost time for us to sit back and see how these ladies respond to the criticism and opinions people have on the court in the near future.
Coleman and Larkins will certainly be two players with a large spotlight and large responsibility on their shoulders this season. I expect big things from both, but it will also be interesting to hear about Larkins' physical condition. Does anyone have any word on that topic?
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miatamama
Joined: 27 May 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07 5:30 pm ::: |
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| What's more interesting is who is NOT on the list.
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Stephen Shirley
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/19/07 1:21 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Sorry, but if you consider both sides of the ball and compare sophomore seasons against one another, Erlana Larkins is more versatile than Marissa Coleman. |
True. Larkins had shown that she's capable of handling the ball at least as good as a mediocre ACC point guard, and she can play and defend either post position. Was the Sophomore Larkins fast enough to guard a quick ACC PG? No, but she could somewhat contain them for limited stretches. At times, she showed her ability to take over games. At other times, she stepped back and let Latta do her thang.
The Junior Larkins was a different story. She couldn't really guard anybody. Her outside shot looked flat. Her energy level was down from previous seasons. She didn't look injured or anything like that. She just looked bloated. I understand that she went through a very tough emotional stretch last season, but she reported to preseason practice in 2006 sporting that same doughy profile.
I think Hatchell made a mistake by letting Larkins participate with USA Basketball the past two summers. First, her playing USA Basketball only benefits her chances for individual awards. Looking at her performances during those two summers (and comparing them with her performance with U19 in 2005), I don't see where she made strides in her game by playing international basketball. She didn't get an opportunity to increase her shooting range, and she wasn't exactly dominating down on the low block. Larkins should've stayed in Chapel Hill to assume more of a leadership position with her younger teammates and to chisel her physique. That would take her a lot further in her career than chasing an almost impossible USA Basketball dream for a 6-1/6-2 post player (especially with posts like Parker, Paris, Fowles, Hampton, and Vaughn ready to take flight).
As for Coleman, sometimes I wonder just how much better she could be if she played for a different team--one that had a few more players willing to accept their roles (not necessarily "role player" types). If she were in a position to carry a team, she might display a few more skills on both sides of the ball (driving to the hoop, creating steals with quick hands). She's certainly capable of doing more than shooting from the perimeter and hitting the occasional mid-range jump shot. Unlike Langhorne, Coleman's got the height to dominate at her position if she chooses to do so. If she is allowed to play up to her fullest potential, she could be the best player in the ACC someday. Her jump shot is one of the purest in the game today.
But until she demonstrates (or gets the chance to, for that matter) that she is one of the best all-around players in the ACC, Coleman can take a seat behind Langhorne, Littles, Waner, Wright, and even Larkins in the ACC.
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The Bruins should be nowhere near the Top 25, IMO.