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pilight
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bballfan2005
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 Posted: 10/05/07 1:28 pm ::: |
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It's going to be fun watching Ajavon shoot her team out of big games and observing the ever-so-animated Crystal Langhorne battle for post position, only to get snubbed most of the time.
The real talent is in the Class of 2009, assuming Parker stays for her fourth year of eligibility.
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bullsky
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| Posted: 10/05/07 2:32 pm ::: |
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I'm glad Crystal Kelly got recognition, even though she plays in a smaller conference.
However, the fact that Nicky Anosike made this list over Kimberly Beck is moritfying.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:03 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
It's going to be fun watching Ajavon shoot her team out of big games and observing the ever-so-animated Crystal Langhorne battle for post position, only to get snubbed most of the time.
The real talent is in the Class of 2009, assuming Parker stays for her fourth year of eligibility. |
I'm pondering whether it's worth the trouble to go through this one again, but I wonder if you're referring to the LSU game (16 points), the Arizona State game (20 points) or the Duke regional semifinal (20 points).
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mikey87
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:25 pm ::: |
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| I agree with what he said about Tasha, It's ashame people don't give her the respect she deserves. She is just as good as the other players who get the national attention. But this is her last year and I expect her to make people notice her...
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:28 pm ::: |
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| mikey87 wrote: |
| I agree with what he said about Tasha, It's ashame people don't give her the respect she deserves. She is just as good as the other players who get the national attention. But this is her last year and I expect her to make people notice her... |
Oh come on. This is not about respect. She gets PLENTY of respect. The article said that she was overshadowed by Candace Parker and Sylvia Fowles. That part is true, but it has nothing to do with respect. Being overshadowed does not mean she isn't respected.
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bballfan2005
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:35 pm ::: |
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| mikey87 wrote: |
| I agree with what he said about Tasha, It's ashame people don't give her the respect she deserves. She is just as good as the other players who get the national attention. But this is her last year and I expect her to make people notice her... |
If she was as good as any player getting national attention, she'd be getting more of it. Armintie Price proved that last year by getting her team into the NCAAs and showing the nation what they've been missing the past four years. If Tasha is that good, she will have a chance to prove as much this upcoming season.
Still, I disagree. She's not as good as the Wade Trophy frontrunners (Parker and Paris with a hint of Fowles). She was the fourth or fifth-best player in her own conference last season (behind Parker, Price, Fowles, and Carla Thomas). That's just not enough to generate a real buzz for NPOY regardless of what that pathetic excuse for a writer thinks.
Maybe this season will be different. Who knows.
| Quote: |
| I'm pondering whether it's worth the trouble to go through this one again, but I wonder if you're referring to the LSU game (16 points), the Arizona State game (20 points) or the Duke regional semifinal (20 points). |
Or maybe it's the 3-9 performance against Tennessee for all the marbles. Or the 4-22 brick tosser against UConn that actually resulted in a win. We won't even go into her ballhandling...
She outta consider dropping Ray Rice (whose Heisman hopes are on life support) and think about hooking up with Villanova's Scottie Reynolds. Then again, there is only one ball.
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ladydawgs96
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:36 pm ::: |
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| Orange][Krush wrote: |
However, the fact that Nicky Anosike made this list over Kimberly Beck is moritfying. |
She plays for UT. Beck doesn't. I can't remember the thread where it was discussed that decent players from the big name schools getting named to lists over more deserving players
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mikey87
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:39 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| mikey87 wrote: |
| I agree with what he said about Tasha, It's ashame people don't give her the respect she deserves. She is just as good as the other players who get the national attention. But this is her last year and I expect her to make people notice her... |
If she was as good as any player getting national attention, she'd be getting more of it. Armintie Price proved that last year by getting her team into the NCAAs and showing the nation what they've been missing the past four years. If Tasha is that good, she will have a chance to prove as much this upcoming season.
Still, I disagree. She's not as good as the Wade Trophy frontrunners (Parker and Paris with a hint of Fowles). She was the fourth or fifth-best player in her own conference last season (behind Parker, Price, Fowles, and Carla Thomas). That's just not enough to generate a real buzz for NPOY regardless of what that pathetic excuse for a writer thinks.
Maybe this season will be different. Who knows.
| Quote: |
| I'm pondering whether it's worth the trouble to go through this one again, but I wonder if you're referring to the LSU game (16 points), the Arizona State game (20 points) or the Duke regional semifinal (20 points). |
Or maybe it's the 3-9 performance against Tennessee for all the marbles. Or the 4-22 brick tosser against UConn that actually resulted in a win. We won't even go into her ballhandling...
She outta consider dropping Ray Rice (whose Heisman hopes are on life support) and think about hooking up with Villanova's Scottie Reynolds. Then again, there is only one ball. |
Look it's my opinion on the article, Could care less what you or anyone else thinks. That's the way I feel about it...
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bballfan2005
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 10/05/07 3:47 pm ::: |
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Matee had 121 assists last year and 119 turnovers. That is a terrible ratio for a point guard. The previous year (with Cappie), she had 144 assists and 115 turnovers...1.25 A/TO. Her freshman year, she had the same stats her junior year...121 assists, 119 turnovers.
She really improved her three point shot as a junior (and overall shooting), but the A/TO is really troubling for a supposedly elite point guard/player.
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bballfan2005
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beknighted
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| Posted: 10/05/07 4:35 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
Or maybe it's the 3-9 performance against Tennessee for all the marbles. Or the 4-22 brick tosser against UConn that actually resulted in a win. We won't even go into her ballhandling...
She outta consider dropping Ray Rice (whose Heisman hopes are on life support) and think about hooking up with Villanova's Scottie Reynolds. Then again, there is only one ball. |
This is why I wasn't going to bother. In the Tennessee game, she took 9 shots. Vaughn (who I know you like) took 15 and Essence Carson, nobody's definition of a ball hog, took 11. As it happens, she shot just a little worse than the team as a whole, and better than anyone else on the team from 3 point range. And, of course, even if Ajavon had gone 9-9, Tennessee still would have won. Oh, and citing a game that RU won as part of your argument doesn't really help, since she obviously didn't shoot them out of that game.
When we went through this same argument in the spring, I spent a lot of time with the statistics that showed, among other things, that Ajavon led Rutgers in assists, was less selfish than Harding and was less selfish than the famously unselfish UConn team. I recall you saying, more or less, that you really didn't care what the statistics said, you knew what your eyes were seeing, so I don't expect to change your mind with anything I say.
What you really seem to mean is that you don't like her style of play. That's fine, and I've felt that way about certain players over the years, too (Latta comes to mind), but it's unreasonable to say she hurts her team. The facts do not bear that out.
* * *
Now, to respond to Cam, whose comments are more rational, I will agree that Ajavon is not really a standard point guard, no matter what the commentators say. While she did lead Rutgers in assists last year, there were two other players with more than 100 assists (Carson and Prince), and better A/TO ratios. Stringer doesn't really seem to mind this, and I'd say that Carson tends to run things more than any of the other players, even though she's nominally the 4 a lot of the time.
It's also worth noting that Ajavon's statistics for last year may be deceptive. She spent a good chunk of the season playing herself into shape after missing the first five games with a stress fracture. In December and January, her A/TO ratio was really abysmal - 0.86 - but in February and March, it was 1.43, considerably better than her two previous seasons. Against Duke and ASU, she had a combined 11 assists and 4 turnovers, a 2.75 A/TO ratio. (By the way, a combined 11 assists, 40 points and 6 steals in the regional semi and regional final isn't too shabby.)
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p_d_swanson
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| Posted: 10/05/07 4:42 pm ::: |
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Assist/turnover ratios, first three seasons:
Matee Ajavon -- 1.1-to-1
Lindsay Whalen -- 1.1-to-1
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 10/05/07 4:45 pm ::: |
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| Matee won't be a PG in the next level and she's a good SG. That's all we need to know. That being said, I still don't want her on my team.
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 10/05/07 4:46 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| The real talent is in the Class of 2009, assuming Parker stays for her fourth year of eligibility. |
I'm starting my 'Tank for Kia' campaign right now.
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bballfan2005
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| Posted: 10/05/07 5:19 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| This is why I wasn't going to bother. |
You shouldn't bother because you don't have an argument. Since you're a stats man, the numbers are there for you to plainly see. We've all seen the "dribble between the legs until 5 seconds are left on the clock, then go right as hard as you can" ball domination routine enough to know what we're dealing with here, and it ain't John Stockton.
RU finds ways to win in spite of Ajavon, not necessarily because of her. The 4-22 performance against UConn proves that. Believe it or not, there are other talented players on the roster.
| Quote: |
Assist/turnover ratios, first three seasons:
Matee Ajavon -- 1.1-to-1
Lindsay Whalen -- 1.1-to-1 |
You left these players out of the convo
LaToya Bond -- 1.0-to-1
Kiara Hardy -- 1.0-to-1
Ashley Key -- 1.3-to-1
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ThreeBall25
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| Posted: 10/05/07 9:46 pm ::: |
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| I thought Charde Houston would be on the list... or at least the honorable mentions at the bottom.
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 10/05/07 9:55 pm ::: |
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| ThreeBall25 wrote: |
| I thought Charde Houston would be on the list... or at least the honorable mentions at the bottom. |
She's too inconsistent. Because of injures to Brittany, Ketia was probably the best Senior (for the whole year, not just spots) on Uconn.
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ThreeBall25
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| Posted: 10/05/07 11:02 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| ThreeBall25 wrote: |
| I thought Charde Houston would be on the list... or at least the honorable mentions at the bottom. |
She's too inconsistent. Because of injures to Brittany, Ketia was probably the best Senior (for the whole year, not just spots) on Uconn. |
Juniors maybe?
She averaged 12.5 ppg and 7 rpg which is pretty good... Much better than anything Anosike has to offer IMO.
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beknighted
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| Posted: 10/05/07 11:07 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| RU finds ways to win in spite of Ajavon, not necessarily because of her. |
Really? I will note that the people who disagree with you would appear to include her current (Hall of Fame) coach, the people who put her on the Wade Trophy watch list for this season, the people who chose her as the MoP of the Greensboro Regional and the Big East Tournament last year and the people at USA Basketball who chose her for the Pan Am team this year (where you might remember that she scored 27 points in the final). But, hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
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bballfan2005
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| Posted: 10/05/07 11:39 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| Really? I will note that the people who disagree with you would appear to include her current (Hall of Fame) coach, the people who put her on the Wade Trophy watch list for this season, the people who chose her as the MoP of the Greensboro Regional and the Big East Tournament last year and the people at USA Basketball who chose her for the Pan Am team this year (where you might remember that she scored 27 points in the final). But, hey, you're entitled to your opinion. |
LMAO @ you getting bent out of shape about this. That was cheesy. If you're blowing your top in October, I can't wait to see how you'll react once the actual games are played. Might want to save some of that passion for the regular season, homes.
Your girl is talented, but she is a glorified chucker. If she didn't play for a Top 10 school, no one would give two shits about her--and that's the truth. As for the accolades, well--didn't Brooke Smith have many of them as well? And how about Ivory Latta? She went from POY candidate to fringe 1st round draft pick in about a year's time. Just because she gets a little glory now for that fortuitous Final Four run doesn't mean that she will continue to receive it. Most players (do the names Jazz Covington and Jessica Dickson ring a bell?) aren't capable of living up to that level of hype. The ones who are (namely Paris and Parker) usually wind up as NPOY finalists. Ajavon is much closer to the former than she is to the latter, IMO.
AND YOU'LL NOTE THAT TWO OF HER TEAMMATES CAN BOAST SIMILAR ACCOLADES (with better numbers in some cases), so WTF's your point?
IMO, this little spat is over. If you want to be a little prick about it and get in the last word, be my guest. Since you're a Rutgers fan, I don't expect you to know much about winning. So go ahead and take the last "shot" if it'll make you feel that much better.
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p_d_swanson
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| Posted: 10/06/07 2:53 am ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Assist/turnover ratios, first three seasons:
Matee Ajavon -- 1.1-to-1
Lindsay Whalen -- 1.1-to-1 |
You left these players out of the convo
LaToya Bond -- 1.0-to-1
Kiara Hardy -- 1.0-to-1
Ashley Key -- 1.3-to-1 |
For more examples of just how meaningless that statistic is in isolation:
Erin Grant -- 2.4-to-1
Yolanda Paige -- 2.1-to-1
Dee Davis -- 1.8-to-1
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Str8_Butta
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/06/07 6:10 am ::: |
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| Orange][Krush wrote: |
| However, the fact that Nicky Anosike made this list over Kimberly Beck is moritfying. |
Who? I'm glad Nicky made the list, if she can pick up her scoring this season, her being mentioned will be well deserved imo.
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Thrillrider08
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| Posted: 10/06/07 8:18 am ::: |
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| Str8_Butta wrote: |
| Orange][Krush wrote: |
| However, the fact that Nicky Anosike made this list over Kimberly Beck is moritfying. |
Who? I'm glad Nicky made the list, if she can pick up her scoring this season, her being mentioned will be well deserved imo. |
Nicky almost single handily powered the Vols in the title game last April. She deserved making the list. |
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How can a player who will likely be preseason ACC POY be underrated? She probably won't win the regular award, but still.
She makes Latta look like John Stockton!