RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Top-10 Programs of the last Decade
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 2:46 pm    ::: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

Okay, so I did an extraordinarily non-scientific top-10 of WCBB for this last decade, 1998-2007. I figured since ESPN was doing their own, then Rebkellian can manage and discuss this themselves as well (not to mention that it gives us something to talk about).

I only really looked at the results of the last 10 NCAA tourneys and looked at the teams performance (I didn't want to work yesterday) and assigned values from the Sweet Sixteen to the Championship. I weighed the championship very heavily, however, some teams run ahead of others simply because of their consistency over the course of the decade. Hence, a Duke would be ahead of Purdue because while Purdue won a championship in that span, Duke has been the overall more consistent team with more Elite Eight, Final Four, etc., appearances.

Here is my wholy unscientific and subjective (althought not too subjective -- it is after all based on something) list of top 10 teams of the last decade.

1. Connecticut
2. Tennessee
3. Duke
4. Purdue
5. LSU
6. Notre Dame
7. Rutgers
T7. Baylor
8. North Carolina
9. Maryland
10. La. Tech
Honrable Mention (in order of NCAA tourney performance): Georgia, Oklahoma, Penn State, Texas Tech, Stanford, Michigan State, NC State, Vanderbilt


Stephen Shirley



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 787



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 4:19 pm    ::: Can't argue with that list... Reply Reply with quote

Good looking list. The one thing that jumps out: LaTech

My gosh they've fallen off the face of the earth. Surprised


bballfan2005



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 4:53 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

fancy_daniel wrote:
I weighed the championship very heavily, however,


And that's why the list looks very suspect to me beyond the top three.



_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!

Mathies to LA 2013
bullsky



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 20310



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Baylor? Really?



_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 6:12 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
fancy_daniel wrote:
I weighed the championship very heavily, however,


And that's why the list looks very suspect to me beyond the top three.


Well, I figured that the championships could not be taken too lightly. To win one is such an enormous task that I thought they merited that type of consideration.


bballfan2005



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 6:20 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

fancy_daniel wrote:
Well, I figured that the championships could not be taken too lightly. To win one is such an enormous task that I thought they merited that type of consideration.


Almost. Getting there is an enormous accomplishment. Winning one is pretty much a crapshoot. I don't see anything wrong with weighting a national championship heavily compared to, say, a Sweet 16 appearance or below, but it should not be weighted that much heavier than a Final Four appearance.

You can't really say that teams like Notre Dame, Maryland, and Baylor should be mentioned in the same light as Duke or LSU. But when you weight the national championship wins too heavily, you're saying just that.



_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!

Mathies to LA 2013
ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2817
Location: New York


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 7:47 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
fancy_daniel wrote:
Well, I figured that the championships could not be taken too lightly. To win one is such an enormous task that I thought they merited that type of consideration.


Almost. Getting there is an enormous accomplishment. Winning one is pretty much a crapshoot. I don't see anything wrong with weighting a national championship heavily compared to, say, a Sweet 16 appearance or below, but it should not be weighted that much heavier than a Final Four appearance.

You can't really say that teams like Notre Dame, Maryland, and Baylor should be mentioned in the same light as Duke or LSU. But when you weight the national championship wins too heavily, you're saying just that.


Have you seen the list ESPN is putting together for the men? It is really neat looking at it. I was going to start this thread, but fancy beat me to it.


bballfan2005



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 7:55 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Have you seen the list ESPN is putting together for the men? It is really neat looking at it. I was going to start this thread, but fancy beat me to it.


I haven't seen it, but I'll go take a look.



_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!

Mathies to LA 2013
ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2817
Location: New York


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 8:12 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
Have you seen the list ESPN is putting together for the men? It is really neat looking at it. I was going to start this thread, but fancy beat me to it.


I haven't seen it, but I'll go take a look.


You will like it bball!!! They put together the top programs and the top teams of the last decade. I'm going to put together both lists tonight I think.


bballfan2005



Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 25315
Location: Somewhere here and there


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 8:26 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
You will like it bball!!! They put together the top programs and the top teams of the last decade. I'm going to put together both lists tonight I think.


You're right, bart! Very Happy I do like the lists (a lot). They did a great job with both.



_________________
Avatar: The King has his ring!

Mathies to LA 2013
beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/09/07 10:49 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

I'd be interested in knowing the weighting, but I'd be inclined to give a school a lot of credit for a national championship, and certainly significantly more than for making the Final Four.

Part of it depends on your goals in creating the list. If you're looking for the most consistently good programs, then you'd tend to give less weight to getting further. If you're looking for the programs that produce the best teams, then you'd want to give more weight to better results.

My two cents are that 1 and 2 are obvious, and 3 isn't far behind in terms of obviousness. After that, it gets harder. I've personally always thought that Bayor and Carolina underachieved on average, but I'm not sure that means they don't belong on the list. Maryland's results are mostly in the last three years, which makes it a little trickier.


fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, the whole point of this thread is to be dissected. I expect everyone to definitely give their opinion.

I did have the championship weighed much lower but then I noticed that some teams like Uconn would fall behind Tennessee, because despite all the championships, Tenn. has been more consistent in getting to the final four.

Strangely enough, of the list I made, only the top-three teams have made at least the sweet sixteen in all ten years.

Some teams move up because they started the decade strongly and fell off (La. Tech) or some team's accomplishments have come more recently (Maryland).


BUfan



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 103



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How in the world would someone think Baylor has underachieved? From no where seven years ago to a national championship and several NCAA appearances including a couple sweet 16's.


Jerrybear



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Michigan


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the list looks about right to me, with #1 and 2 being no-brainers and more or less interchangeable. i might put the Vols ahead of the Huskies, or maybe even have them tied for first.

unfortunately, if we were to do a bottom ten, my beloved Michigan Wolverines would more than likely be part of it.

Oh well, at least the Michigan softball team would be in the top ten!!!


fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 12:55 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
Part of it depends on your goals in creating the list. If you're looking for the most consistently good programs, then you'd tend to give less weight to getting further. If you're looking for the programs that produce the best teams, then you'd want to give more weight to better results.


I thought about dealing with the regular season and then also adding the WNBA prospects, but it was such a pain to find results from ten years ago, that I quickly scrapped that. It would be an interesting experiment as some teams would probably move up (Stanford, Penn State, Vanderbilt). Although those could be considered teams that all underachieved in the post-season and you could knock them down for that as well.

I do think however that Purdue, LSU and Rutgers have definitely earned their spot. They have been very consistent or consistent enough to be part of the mix.

LSU is a no brainer with 4 FF appearances and 2 Elite Eights.
Purdue of course has one championship, one FF, and 3 EE's.
UNC has two FF's and 2 EE's.
Rutgers has two FF's and 2 EE's.
Notre Dame is probably the sketchiest but it's championship gets it over the top. Other than that, it has 4 Sweet Sixteen appearances.


fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, just to dispel some of the critics, I went back and took into account conference and conf. tourney championships and this is what I got:

1. Connecticut
2. Tennessee
3. Duke
4. Purdue
5. La. Tech
T6. UNC
T6. LSU
8. Old Dominion
T10. Rutgers
T10. Notre Dame

HM: Baylor, Oklahoma, Maryland, Stanford, Georgia

That moves La. Tech way up and adds Old Dominion into the mix as they tended to dominate their conferences.

I'm still waiting for the disagreements. Mad


barryi22



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 474
Location: In the USA


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 8:10 pm    ::: Re: Top-10 Programs of the last Decade Reply Reply with quote

fancy_daniel wrote:
Okay, so I did an extraordinarily non-scientific top-10 of WCBB for this last decade, 1998-2007. I figured since ESPN was doing their own, then Rebkellian can manage and discuss this themselves as well (not to mention that it gives us something to talk about).

I only really looked at the results of the last 10 NCAA tourneys and looked at the teams performance (I didn't want to work yesterday) and assigned values from the Sweet Sixteen to the Championship. I weighed the championship very heavily, however, some teams run ahead of others simply because of their consistency over the course of the decade. Hence, a Duke would be ahead of Purdue because while Purdue won a championship in that span, Duke has been the overall more consistent team with more Elite Eight, Final Four, etc., appearances.

Here is my wholy unscientific and subjective (althought not too subjective -- it is after all based on something) list of top 10 teams of the last decade.

1. Connecticut
2. Tennessee
3. Duke
4. Purdue
5. LSU
6. Notre Dame
7. Rutgers
T7. Baylor
8. North Carolina
9. Maryland
10. La. Tech
Honrable Mention (in order of NCAA tourney performance): Georgia, Oklahoma, Penn State, Texas Tech, Stanford, Michigan State, NC State, Vanderbilt


I think your list is pretty good, UT and UCONN is probably the edge to UCONN, but I think it is debatable if you look past the 4-2 championship edge. Tennessee has made it to 5 championship games, UCONN 4, Tennessee 7 final fours, UCONN 5(all in a row), Tennessee 9 Elite 8's, UCONN 8 Elite 8's, both 10 final fours. Head to head the record is 9-7 UCONN. I'd still give the edge to UCONN because they have won 2 more championships, but Tennessee is a very very close 2nd.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In the last ten years, UConn is 4-0 against Tennessee in the Final Four, including 3-0 in championship games.


beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BUfan wrote:
How in the world would someone think Baylor has underachieved? From no where seven years ago to a national championship and several NCAA appearances including a couple sweet 16's.


Well, Baylor lost in the 2nd round as a #2 seed in 2002 and didn't make the tournament in 2003.


beknighted



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/10/07 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

fancy_daniel wrote:
That moves La. Tech way up and adds Old Dominion into the mix as they tended to dominate their conferences.

I'm still waiting for the disagreements. Mad


Okay, I'll disagree with this one. Much though I love ODU, there's no credible argument that the Monarchs are in the top 10, and LaTech was borderline at best even before considering the results of the last decade.


fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/11/07 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
fancy_daniel wrote:
That moves La. Tech way up and adds Old Dominion into the mix as they tended to dominate their conferences.

I'm still waiting for the disagreements. Mad


Okay, I'll disagree with this one. Much though I love ODU, there's no credible argument that the Monarchs are in the top 10, and LaTech was borderline at best even before considering the results of the last decade.


I think you can argue back and forth. Old Dominion maybe should be out, but in that time span, La. Tech made two FF's not to mention that it dominated it's conference. I think that more than merits a spot in the top-10.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/11/07 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you are considering conference titles, then you have to consider UCSB, for example.

Conference titles are great, but it depends on the conference...and to be honest, there is no greater equalizer than postseason performance (at least in theory).


fancy_daniel



Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/11/07 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
If you are considering conference titles, then you have to consider UCSB, for example.

Conference titles are great, but it depends on the conference...and to be honest, there is no greater equalizer than postseason performance (at least in theory).


Those were my thoughts initially. The second-run through was more to see how things would stack with those other factors taken into consideration.

However, I think the conference titles are less of a factor in the women's game as it is common for one or two teams to dominate.

Even in the big conferences, schools like Tenn., Uconn., Stanford, etc. tend to dominate. You're absolutely right though. The cream rises to the top in the NCAA tourney.


Stephen Shirley



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 787



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/11/07 2:04 pm    ::: Question for all the doubters Reply Reply with quote

Lots of people have "complained" about the rankings. But does anyone offer a list significantly different?

I might flip-flop LSU and Purdue, but that's probably just my anti-Boilermaker bias. Wink

I think it is a great list. Like others, I think the 10 (and next Cool could be broken into tiers.

Top: UConn and UT are head and shoulders above the rest.

Consistent: Duke, Purdue and LSU are models of consistency, even without many championships

Inconsistent: ND, Rutgers, Baylor and UNC have years of great success interspersed with complete washouts.

Streaky: Maryland and LaTech bookend the 10 year span. LaTech began the timeframe with great success before disappearing while Maryland reemerged on the scene after having been missing for a time.


Koopster



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 444



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/11/07 6:21 pm    ::: Re: Question for all the doubters Reply Reply with quote

Stephen Shirley wrote:
Lots of people have "complained" about the rankings. But does anyone offer a list significantly different?

I might flip-flop LSU and Purdue, but that's probably just my anti-Boilermaker bias. Wink

I think it is a great list. Like others, I think the 10 (and next Cool could be broken into tiers.

Top: UConn and UT are head and shoulders above the rest.

Consistent: Duke, Purdue and LSU are models of consistency, even without many championships

Inconsistent: ND, Rutgers, Baylor and UNC have years of great success interspersed with complete washouts.

Streaky: Maryland and LaTech bookend the 10 year span. LaTech began the timeframe with great success before disappearing while Maryland reemerged on the scene after having been missing for a time.


I think it is telling that only 3 of the top 5 have won a championship...and for Purdue it was back in 1999. LSU and Duke have been great models of consistant success...but the drop-off after the top 2 is gigantic. I am obviously a huge Purdue fan, but we haven't produced like a top 5 program in a few years now.

Fancy...it would be fun to expand your exercise to the top 25...just like a modern day poll. Debating positions 11-25 might draw more dialogue than the top 10 spots.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin