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Kamala
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 05/04/07 12:33 pm ::: |
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| Captain Marvel wrote: |
| By the way, until "Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip" is formally cancelled, D.L. Hughley, who appears on that show, is an NBC contract employee, or at least, he's an employee on a show that airs on NBC. |
You have no understanding of employment law or corporate entities.
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Kamala
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 113
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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| Posted: 05/04/07 12:57 pm ::: |
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| The posters that are talking about NBC firing DL and whatnot are out of the box. I'm thinking some people are so mad b/c DL said something that can be construed as similar to what Imus said, DL will not likely not be fired for it, and they are pissed b/c of that and not b/c of any disrespect for women.
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The cotton field is next door to the ball field.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
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| Posted: 05/04/07 1:04 pm ::: |
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| Kamala wrote: |
I'm thinking you might be a racist. |
Absolutely. I especially hate Jewish people. And thin people. I hate thin people too.
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Captain Marvel
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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| Posted: 05/04/07 5:37 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Captain Marvel wrote: |
| By the way, until "Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip" is formally cancelled, D.L. Hughley, who appears on that show, is an NBC contract employee, or at least, he's an employee on a show that airs on NBC. |
You have no understanding of employment law or corporate entities. |
You have no understanding of how to reply to people in a civil manner.
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Captain Marvel
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
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| Posted: 05/04/07 5:40 pm ::: |
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Again, wrong is wrong, no matter who does it. Victims of sexism are no less aggrieved than victims of racism.
| Kamala wrote: |
| Captain Marvel wrote: |
By the way, until "Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip" is formally cancelled, D.L. Hughley, who appears on that show, is an NBC contract employee, or at least, he's an employee on a show that airs on NBC.
And, while the show isn't on the air now, it is scheduled to return on May 24.
You're right, Jammer, someone should be making something of this, namely Media Matters and the National Association of Black Journalists and all the other interest groups that went after Imus. It's stuff like this that infuriates me as a black man. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.
One last thing: Jay Leno is an asshole. Always has been. |
Don't try to equate DL and Don Imus. What DL said was hurtful. What Don Imus said was racist. There's no comparison. |
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ZuG102
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 3386
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: 05/04/07 6:54 pm ::: |
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| I think each and every player is beautiful on and off the court. Appearance ha nothing to do with basketball. It's only discussed because they only focus on the fact that they're women. I don't hear women going around all the time, saying how ugly male athletes are. This shows how much sexism there is. People think it's gotten better, but there's still so much more needed to do.
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thesixthwoman
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: 05/04/07 8:16 pm ::: |
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1. I happened to see Jay Leno the other night and I SAW this exchange. The fact that I did is a pretty freaky coincidence, because I NEVER watch Leno. I don't even know why I was watching -- I think I was watching Medium or something and got involved in work and never changed the channel all the way through the bad local news...and then left it on...usually I would have switched over to Jon Stewart, but I know I can catch that and Colbert at 1:00 AM...
Why pilight would question Jammer's grasp on reality is beyond me. Or did I miss the sarcasm here?? Like, YES - D.L. HUGHLEY WAS ON LENO AND YES HE SAID EXACTLY WHAT JAMMER SAID HE SAID, as far as I can recall.
2. Cam - you challenge Jammer by citing case law AS IF we're all talking in some Law Review chat room! He's not a lawyer, I'm not a lawyer -- you're a lawyer. You know the law better than we. No one is questioning that. You win. I think you are jumping on a chance to show your superiority, and it appears pretty rude to me. I'm sorry, but that's how I see if, having just read this entire thread straight through.
3. I was really horrified at DL. I've always thought he was okay enough. Takes himself a little too seriously, but smart enough. Seen him make some great points on Bill Maher's show, for instance. But I don't know what the fuck he was trying to do here and I can't imagine that the Rutgers women haven't heard about it by now. And I felt very much like Queenie did -- a kind of anger and shock -- like as if I was watching a crime victim get mugged by a cop while reporting the crime at the police station.
I think some of this is an unconscious need to 'blame the victim' Like - it's those Rutgers women's fault that this happened to them, because they're ugly. It's not Imus' fault, and DL's trying to 'take control' of the racism by breaking it down or something. Clearly I think he's a rude, thoughtless idiot, and clearly I will remain mystified as to why anybody thinks the physical appearance of these college-age girls who play sports is up for ridicule like this. The fact that is happens also to be SO undeserved - truly - just adds to the confusion for me.
I think DL is a sexist piece of shit who only likes women who actually look like ho's. So it's a lose-lose with him. Either you're a ho -- or you're ugly. (with the lesbian/homophobic undercurrent unspoken) Either way, he's better than you and women are second class. All except his mamma, probably.
And for the record, LENO was visibly uncomfortable and questioned DL about it - like in the "I can't believe you just said that" kind of way - but Jammer has a point that NBC had hours to do something about airing this and they either consciously chose not to or didn't even think it mattered. Either one is fucked up.
Maybe we should write a letter and all sign it.
Maybe we should tell Mechelle Voepel!
If anyone finds a clip on youtube, I can put in in my blog on SPM. You know millions will see that... 
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 05/04/07 11:01 pm ::: |
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Blame the victim? Are you kidding me? This whole situation has been about victim exploitation to make a common enemy. As if Don Imus is responsible for the plight of African-Americans in the United States.
Me lecturing Jammer by trying to demonstrate superiority? To Jammer, the one who looks down on just about everyone? Now that is funny!
Yes, what DL said was misogynistic. Guess what? They were words. He looked like an ass. But, as with Imus, stop acting like it was the most terrible thing in the world. This isn't genocide in Somalia.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 05/04/07 11:12 pm ::: |
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| womens_hoops wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| This is the prime example of the speaker having license as he is a member of the racial minority group subject to the comments. |
on that note, this was absolutely hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdhfyWbJhAk |
hilarious, indeed!
re: the comics comments- those poor RU women- victimized again! better put them on suicide watch. how will they be able to get their lives back together? how many more scars? set up another "we are the abused" tour...if not for that damn korean bastard, c vivian victim might still be on the front page.
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thesixthwoman
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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Location: NYC
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| Posted: 05/04/07 11:14 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Blame the victim? Are you kidding me? This whole situation has been about victim exploitation to make a common enemy. As if Don Imus is responsible for the plight of African-Americans in the United States. |
Yes. Blame the victim. It's a classic. Maybe if he didn't look so 'femme,' he wouldn't have gotten the crap beat out of him. Maybe if she weren't wearing something so revealing, she wouldn't have been attacked. Who's talking about the plight of African-Americans in the USA? I'm talking about what Imus said about the Scarlet Knights and how DL perpetuated it. Maybe if they weren't big, sweaty, dyke-y athletes, we wouldn't have to call them nappy-headed and ugly. I was positing a theory. You can disagree, but don't exaggerate.
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Me lecturing Jammer by trying to demonstrate superiority? To Jammer, the one who looks down on just about everyone? Now that is funny! |
Kind of specious argument, there. Looks like you found a shortcut - your knowledge of your profession - to make sure you 'won' the argument this time around.
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
Yes, what DL said was misogynistic. Guess what? They were words. He looked like an ass. But, as with Imus, stop acting like it was the most terrible thing in the world. This isn't genocide in Somalia. |
I'm not acting like this is the most terrible thing in the world. I'm talking about it. It pissed me off, but you're the one comparing it to genocide! I compared it to being mugged, actually. Uh, big difference.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 05/04/07 11:44 pm ::: |
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| thesixthwoman wrote: |
| Yes. Blame the victim. It's a classic. Maybe if he didn't look so 'femme,' he wouldn't have gotten the crap beat out of him. Maybe if she weren't wearing something so revealing, she wouldn't have been attacked. Who's talking about the plight of African-Americans in the USA? I'm talking about what Imus said about the Scarlet Knights and how DL perpetuated it. Maybe if they weren't big, sweaty, dyke-y athletes, we wouldn't have to call them nappy-headed and ugly. I was positing a theory. You can disagree, but don't exaggerate. |
You mean, don't do what you have been doing? Don't discuss exaggeration when you have just talked about assualt and rape!
Blame the victim? Uh, no. There is no Constitutional right not to be insulted.
| thesixthwoman wrote: |
| I'm not acting like this is the most terrible thing in the world. I'm talking about it. It pissed me off, but you're the one comparing it to genocide! I compared it to being mugged, actually. Uh, big difference. |
Please...it wasn't even said to the player's faces. They weren't listening to Imus, either.
Compared it to being mugged, eh? This is after you just discussed rape and assault...and after you told me not to exaggerate. Hello pot, this is kettle.
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thesixthwoman
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 6296
Location: NYC
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| Posted: 05/05/07 12:22 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| thesixthwoman wrote: |
| Yes. Blame the victim. It's a classic. Maybe if he didn't look so 'femme,' he wouldn't have gotten the crap beat out of him. Maybe if she weren't wearing something so revealing, she wouldn't have been attacked. Who's talking about the plight of African-Americans in the USA? I'm talking about what Imus said about the Scarlet Knights and how DL perpetuated it. Maybe if they weren't big, sweaty, dyke-y athletes, we wouldn't have to call them nappy-headed and ugly. I was positing a theory. You can disagree, but don't exaggerate. |
You mean, don't do what you have been doing? Don't discuss exaggeration when you have just talked about assualt and rape!
Blame the victim? Uh, no. There is no Constitutional right not to be insulted.
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I just said that NOW, to illustrate an analogy of blaming the victim, because it seemed you did not understand my point. You are the one who brought up the plight of all African Americans - BEFORE. You're doing it again, Cam. You label me with something more extreme and then attack me for it. This is an old debate technique and I'm on to you. And who said anything about "Constitutional rights?" Again, that's YOU escalating this. All I said was the phrase "blame the victim" - let me reiterate- to POSIT A THEORY of why DL might have said what he said - to have a DISCUSSION - and you keep raising the stakes of the argument so that you can find something to attack.
And this primarily because I pointed out that you were unfair to Jammer, which I see you have stopped responding to. Well, thanks for that, at least.
| thesixthwoman wrote: |
| I'm not acting like this is the most terrible thing in the world. I'm talking about it. It pissed me off, but you're the one comparing it to genocide! I compared it to being mugged, actually. Uh, big difference. |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
Please...it wasn't even said to the player's faces. They weren't listening to Imus, either.
Compared it to being mugged, eh? This is after you just discussed rape and assault...and after you told me not to exaggerate. Hello pot, this is kettle. |
Again, I was trying to use analogies to explain my point. And you must be mixed up. I was explaining 'blame the victim' with being attacked, not what Imus "did" to the Rutgers team. Another shortcut argument then? I guess this works in AZ law... Hello kettle? This is kitchen, out here seeing the bigger picture.
Who cares if it wasn't said to the players' faces? It was said by a radio DJ, so that would have been pretty challenging... If I say something really offensive about someone, is it any less offensive if they're not in the room? Let's say we agree that it's a little bit LESS offensive - how are we going to quantify it? How much less? What Imus said offended every person I know (except maybe some people here?) and what DL Hughley said offended me all over again - and in a way it was worse because it was purposeful.
And - another EXAMPLE - what if I say something slanderous? Does the person have to be there for it to count?
I don't have enough time to keep going back and forth here, because I'm certainly not going to argue with you if you're just going to respond to whatever you imagine - or choose to imagine - I'm saying, without actually carefully considering my words.
This matters to me and I'm not playing your game, especially when you're the only one who knows the rules, apparently.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 05/05/07 12:33 am ::: |
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Read your exaggeration shit again. Then read your subsequent posts. You are making a federal case over this. Big deal...IMUS INSULTS EVERYONE. So what? How were they harmed? They weren't.
This was an insult, not slander.
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thesixthwoman
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 6296
Location: NYC
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| Posted: 05/05/07 12:39 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
Read your exaggeration shit again. Then read your subsequent posts. You are making a federal case over this. Big deal...IMUS INSULTS EVERYONE. So what? How were they harmed? They weren't.
This was an insult, not slander. |
I'm done. You obviously are not willing to READ what I wrote.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 05/05/07 12:49 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| o Jammer, the one who looks down on just about everyone? Now that is funny! |
What evidence do you have that I look down on "just about everyone?" Where would you get something like that? It's the fact that I have so much respect for so many of the people here who have always made up the WNBA board community, including you, that is the VERY REASON I'M HERE. I've always shown deference and respect to people who make up what I call the institutions on the board, and that includes you as well.
I would NEVER jump into a thread and disrespect you as you did me in this thread. EVER. Although I had strong opinions about your Ivory Latta threads, I STAYED OUT of that discussion because I have NO desire to scold or berate ANYONE who's been an important member of this community for as long as you have been. I'm not here to jump down my friends' throats every time they give me the slightest opening.
My legal questions and concerns in this thread were poorly written, I will admit that, but casually offered for discussion. I have NO idea why they would have pissed anyone off, least of all, you. Maybe you'd like to take this opportunity to tell me what the heck I've done that has caused you to think about me in the negative terms you've described and with the obvious hostility you're displaying towards me.
You and I had a momentary beef over me posting too much of an article here probably over a year ago. That's the only negative that has ever passed between us in six years.
What has changed here?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Hughsterg
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Near some rivers in Minnesota
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| Posted: 05/05/07 8:58 am ::: |
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So no one comments on the looks of men basketball players?
People heve commented on Sam Cassell for a long time, calling him ET.
Charles Barkley and Dennis Rodman have also been ridiculed because of their looks.
Locally here in Minnesota, Randy Breuer and Kevin McHale both had the commentators say how much they looked like Heman Munster.
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Read the Gopher State Report for Hughster's commentary on all things Minnesota.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/05/07 2:15 pm ::: |
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Someone's comments from the other video on You Tube.
"This guy is an opportunistic sellout of the highest order, tapdancing for his next subpar television gig. I will not support another thing he does with his sorry-ass career. He is full of internalized racist ignorance and self-hatred and his comments demonstrate that clearly."_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 05/07/07 8:47 am ::: |
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| Kamala wrote: |
| Captain Marvel wrote: |
By the way, until "Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip" is formally cancelled, D.L. Hughley, who appears on that show, is an NBC contract employee, or at least, he's an employee on a show that airs on NBC.
And, while the show isn't on the air now, it is scheduled to return on May 24.
You're right, Jammer, someone should be making something of this, namely Media Matters and the National Association of Black Journalists and all the other interest groups that went after Imus. It's stuff like this that infuriates me as a black man. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.
One last thing: Jay Leno is an asshole. Always has been. |
Don't try to equate DL and Don Imus. What DL said was hurtful. What Don Imus said was racist. There's no comparison. |
Based solely on the race of the speaker? Doesn't that make you a racist too, of you criticize people of a race different then yours?
Michael
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Michael
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LSUTigerFan
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 206
Location: Finally back in New Orleans
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 05/07/07 7:38 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Kamala wrote: |
| Don't try to equate DL and Don Imus. What DL said was hurtful. What Don Imus said was racist. There's no comparison. |
Based solely on the race of the speaker? Doesn't that make you a racist too, of you criticize people of a race different then yours? |
Under Title VII, for example, you can engage in race discrimination against people of your own race if you engage in disparate treatment based on race, treating similarly-situated employees of your race less favorably then those who aren't members of your race.
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auntie
Joined: 16 May 2006
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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eclair
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: 05/09/07 12:22 am ::: |
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| Ugliest. Thread. Ever.
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Jerrybear
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: 05/10/07 11:28 am ::: |
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[quote="Carol Anne"]
As far as attractiveness, I think women's college basketball players look great on the court. Who needs makeup, hair extensions, jewelry, etc.? Then again, I'm a dyke and drawn to wholesome, natural-looking women.[/quote]
i agree with you totally!!!
i love the way Deanna Nolan and other players look on the court!!! well, and off of it too!!! 
and as i say in another thread, the Rutgers women are going to get the last laugh in all of this. They will go on to lead happy and successful lives, while the narrow minded morons who disrespect them will remain stuck in their miserable existences. Imus, Hughley and their ilk are just jealous that some women can play sports better than them, and also would not want anything to do with them!
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/10/07 2:44 pm ::: |
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I think the situation is different between a proffessional basketball player and being a college basketball player...and yes, it's different between women and men.
Women are always being judged by there looks. ALWAYS. Since we were three years old and got introduced to Barbie. There has always been an ideal. And there has always been much much greater social pressure for women to be attractive.
If you want proof of that, look at television. King of Queens for example, beautiful wife, fat husband.
Family guy (although, I think that's just a joke) is the same thing. And you can fine show after show that is like that.
Eating disorder percentages. (I believe) about 90% of people with traditional eating disorders (annorexia and belumia) are women.
There are constant pressures on women, much more so than men (in general). And thus it is a more sensitive issue than with men.
However, women's looks are criticized in the media as well. The photographer that said Ashley Olsen looked fat next to Mary-Kate, Britney not losing her baby fat quickly, or any other female celebrity, such as Tyra Banks, gaining weight. And then you have that same media complaining about Lindsay and Kiera looking like they need a brownie...hmm. I wonder why?
My point, they are professionals, they are in the spotlight. So if people are going to criticise the looks of professional athletes, I don't like it...but, It's understandable. And it's going to happen, that's just part of being in the entertainment industry. (Which like it or not, professional basketball players, to some extent are)
But the Rutgers players are college kids. There's no need to insult them. They aren't being paid, they aren't looking to market themselves. They are just playing basketball.
Imus's remarks, were both racist and sexist. And yes, it does make a difference that he isn't a comedian and he isn't black or female. He was speaking honestly, joking maybe...but it was one of those "truth jokes"...you know, yeah he's just joking..but he feels that way. To me, it seemed to be sexism with a racist undertone. Imus wouldn't have said it if they were men's basketball players.
This guys remarks were really just insulting and unnecessary. He didn't need to say that about a college basketball team. But was it really sexist to look at them and go "they are ugly." I'm not sticking up for him in anyway. And I'm sure if the Rutgers team heard this, they would be hurt, but it wasn't sexist..and like it or not, it's not racist coming from someone from your own race.
I <3 the Daily Show
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