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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 04/18/07 2:34 pm ::: |
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| Joey Nations wrote: |
| the Big Ten is awful. |
I really wish people would quit saying things like this when they don't know what they are talking about.
Since McCallie has been at MSU, for instance, the B11 has had more Final Four teams than any other conference. It has had more different teams make the tournament than any other conference except 1.
The far-reaching idea that the B11 is an awful conference is simply not true.
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harlem_basketball
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Gee I don't know...Harlem maybe?
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:51 pm ::: |
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update from the Lansing paper:
McCallie headed for Duke
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Joanne P. McCallie is leaving as coach of the Michigan State women's basketball program to take over at Duke, less than a month after signing a new contract to coach the Spartans.
"The entire McCallie family is absolutely thrilled about the opportunity to serve at Duke," McCallie said in a release sent by Duke. "This has been a dream job of mine for many years. We cannot wait to meet and get to know a team that we are so very impressed by academically, as well as athletically, and by the way they carry themselves."
Michigan State's players were informed during a team meeting this afternoon. McCallie will be introduced at Duke at 1:30 p.m. Friday. |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:52 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| That's not too shabby, particular if she isn't very good at recruiting (which is not evident to me at all - she recruited the whole FF team, for instance). Of course, her recruiting will get a boost at Duke because it's Duke, and a lot of young women would like to have Duke degrees. (And a lot of coaches don't like recruiting. That doesn't mean they can't do it.) |
Uh, no. What was Duke like before Coach G got there? Coach G sold the school. The school itself was not enough.
| beknighted wrote: |
| (And a lot of coaches don't like recruiting. That doesn't mean they can't do it.) |
Really? Where is Shives, her only MCDAA, today? At Gonzaga.
| beknighted wrote: |
| To put her qualifications in perspective, she has a longer track record and overall better results than Joanne Boyle, just to pick a name out of the blue. |
She also isn't nearly as well-liked as Joanne Boyle. And Boyle, in her career, did more with less. |
McCallie isn't coming into the same situation as GG. Right now, Duke is a good place to go, thanks to GG and the school itself. That gives her the opportunity to sell the school. As for her recruiting generally, well, if she did as well as she did without McDonald's AA's, then either (a) she's a heck of a coach; or (b) she's good at recruiting players who are underrated. Take your pick.
I'm not sure I get the relevance of her not being at a particular tournament this weekend, as we don't know where she was (and if she was visiting Duke, well, then of course she wasn't recruiting). She might have been somewhere else watching somebody else.
I have no idea if McCallie's well liked or not, but the evidence for the proposition that Boyle has done more with less is, shall we say, incomplete. Boyle has taken Cal to 2 NCAA tournaments, losing in the first round both times. At Richmond, a school in a conference that historically gets multiple NCAA bids, she made the NCAAs once in three years, which isn't shabby but also isn't spectacular. She hasn't won any conference titles in either conference.
In any event, Boyle wasn't available, so the real question is who else Duke could have gotten who is better than McCallie. I haven't heard any obvious nominations.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:09 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| At Richmond, a school in a conference that historically gets multiple NCAA bids, she made the NCAAs once in three years, which isn't shabby but also isn't spectacular. She hasn't won any conference titles in either conference. |
In a conference? What was Richmond doing before Boyle got there? Using a conference argument without considering what a specific school did is a bit silly.
Boyle went far in the WNIT, then got Richmond to the NCAAs. She lost Gray-Lawson for the year and still made the NCAAs, despite having a terrible backcourt. Oh, and she managed to beat Stanford at Stanford.
| beknighted wrote: |
| In any event, Boyle wasn't available, so the real question is who else Duke could have gotten who is better than McCallie. I haven't heard any obvious nominations. |
I would have been much happier with Sherri Coale. And I would have been happier with Terri Mitchell.
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:12 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| McCallie isn't coming into the same situation as GG. Right now, Duke is a good place to go, thanks to GG and the school itself. That gives her the opportunity to sell the school. As for her recruiting generally, well, if she did as well as she did without McDonald's AA's, then either (a) she's a heck of a coach; or (b) she's good at recruiting players who are underrated. Take your pick. |
What part of "she doesn't like recruiting and has said so herself" do you not seem to grasp, beknighted?
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| I'm not sure I get the relevance of her not being at a particular tournament this weekend, as we don't know where she was (and if she was visiting Duke, well, then of course she wasn't recruiting). She might have been somewhere else watching somebody else. |
 Of course it's not relevant to YOU because YOUR COACH was in attendance at Boo. It's relevant to ME because OUR COACH WASN'T.
Everyone and their mama knows that the Boo Williams Tournament is THE place to scout ACC talent. If McCallie gave a damn about recruiting, she would've found time to swing by either (or both) tournament to see what was going on and who's who...even if she couldn't stay for the entire tournament. The DSC was being held IN CAMERON for Pete's sake! Hell, I bet Brenda Frese would've been able to make it work if faced with the same predicament as McCallie. My point is that she's already behind the curve WRT recruiting. Duke's signees aren't all 100% committed to Duke. Duke's only 2008 verbal is wavering and will likely pull her verbal. So where does that leave us? Scrambling with a coach who doesn't like recruiting.
If the school "sold itself", then why couldn't we hire a better coach than McCallie? Why did Delle Donne drop us off her list and ADD TEXAS?  Why is Selby hedging? Why? Because Duke doesn't sell itself. Gail sold Duke. Now she's selling Texas.
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| I have no idea if McCallie's well liked or not, but the evidence for the proposition that Boyle has done more with less is, shall we say, incomplete. Boyle has taken Cal to 2 NCAA tournaments, losing in the first round both times. At Richmond, a school in a conference that historically gets multiple NCAA bids, she made the NCAAs once in three years, which isn't shabby but also isn't spectacular. She hasn't won any conference titles in either conference. |
Was Boyle in either conference longer than McCallie was in the America East or Big Ten conferences? Haven't Temple, GW, and Xavier been stronger historically than Richmond (i.e. well before Boyle arrived)? Did McCallie produce a POY in the Big Ten? Boyle has the reigning Pac-10 POY and could coach her team to a couple of Pac-10 titles this upcoming season.
| Quote: |
| In any event, Boyle wasn't available, so the real question is who else Duke could have gotten who is better than McCallie. I haven't heard any obvious nominations. |
I have and no, I'm not sharing.
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cferraro04
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:20 pm ::: |
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| I thought that Michigan State team from a couple of years ago was the best coached team I had seen in long time...they were also fun to watch. Maybe there are some better coaching candidates out there but I think McCallie might do very well at Duke.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:21 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| At Richmond, a school in a conference that historically gets multiple NCAA bids, she made the NCAAs once in three years, which isn't shabby but also isn't spectacular. She hasn't won any conference titles in either conference. |
In a conference? What was Richmond doing before Boyle got there? Using a conference argument without considering what a specific school did is a bit silly.
Boyle went far in the WNIT, then got Richmond to the NCAAs. She lost Gray-Lawson for the year and still made the NCAAs, despite having a terrible backcourt. Oh, and she managed to beat Stanford at Stanford.
| beknighted wrote: |
| In any event, Boyle wasn't available, so the real question is who else Duke could have gotten who is better than McCallie. I haven't heard any obvious nominations. |
I would have been much happier with Sherri Coale. And I would have been happier with Terri Mitchell. |
Mitchell apparently was available, but I haven't heard any indications that Coale was. I like Mitchell fine, but in her 11 seasons at Marquette, she has the same number of NCAA appearances that McCallie had at Maine, and I don't believe she's ever advanced past the second round of the NCAAs.
I brought up Richmond's conference because it is, in fact, relevant. The A-10 has a deeper recruiting pool than the America East conference and you don't need to win it to get into the NCAAs. (Also, Richmond was respectable, if not great, the couple of years before she went there.)
Oh, and now it appears to be official:
Duke Press Release
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boilerjay
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 723
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:26 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
MSU was a dreadful team before McCallie got there |
Dreadful is a bit of an exaggeration. They were 19-12 the year before McCallie arrived, and had a winning record the year before that...hardly what I'd call "dreadful".
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:28 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| I brought up Richmond's conference because it is, in fact, relevant. The A-10 has a deeper recruiting pool than the America East conference and you don't need to win it to get into the NCAAs. (Also, Richmond was respectable, if not great, the couple of years before she went there.) |
No, it isn't. What did Richmond do before Boyle got there? Check the releases. Boyle got them to the postseason repeateldy, something Richmond was not doing before her arrival.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:28 pm ::: |
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| bballfan2005 wrote: |
| What part of "she doesn't like recruiting and has said so herself" do you not seem to grasp, beknighted? |
I grasp that just fine. I just don't think it actually tells you much. Lots of other coaches have said the same thing, directly and indirectly. Heck, there's usually one article a year on how much of a grind recruiting is for some very successful coach or another. It's only relevant to the extent that somebody can't or won't do it.
The vitriol on this one from some Duke fans is really interesting. You'd think Duke had hired, oh, Rene Portland. I think I'm going to let you fight among yourselves now.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:31 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| I grasp that just fine. I just don't think it actually tells you much. Lots of other coaches have said the same thing, directly and indirectly. Heck, there's usually one article a year on how much of a grind recruiting is for some very successful coach or another. It's only relevant to the extent that somebody can't or won't do it. |
Really? Which coaches and where? Links, please.
| beknighted wrote: |
| The vitriol on this one from some Duke fans is really interesting. You'd think Duke had hired, oh, Rene Portland. I think I'm going to let you fight among yourselves now. |
Maybe because some of us know more about the situation and process than you do...
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bballfan2005
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 04/18/07 3:39 pm ::: |
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Classic, BBallfan2005, classic!!!!
Sweat Gary Sweat!
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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wadethered
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 4:09 pm ::: |
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| Has one person's retirement ever caused so much controversy? I don't think anybody can blame McCallie for taking a better career opportunity.
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Hoops24/7
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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| Posted: 04/18/07 4:10 pm ::: |
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I agree with BeKnighted's observations re: the vitriol here. I have a wild, wild idea...howzabout we see how she actually does?
Re: recruiting: indeed, few coaches list it as their favorite activity. Yes, she's said openly that if she can get great people from Michigan and the surrounding areas, why not do it? That's also just good basic props to the local fan base, b/c it says you know you have good folks in the area. When at Auburn, she was their primary recruiter and they went to the championship game twice, I believe.
The notion that she's not well-liked...I have no idea where that's coming from. She's a very popular coach in the Big 10, and I believe that Kia Vaughn and Essence Carson (who played for her in the U-20's last summer) both spoke very highly of her. She's known to be gregarious and well-spoken.
I wonder if this is one of those areas where we see what our pre-existing bias tells us to see: if we wanted someone else for the job, we deem her unqualified/unlikable/a bad recruiter/possessed of poor personal hygiene and we dismiss her. If we're inclined to like her for the job, we consider her intelligent, successful at programs that were tougher sells, and a great up-and-comer. I've always liked her style and her comportment (not to mention her teams), although I admit to being disappointed that she left MSU in the lurch.
FYI: I may be one of only 3 people in the known universe who neither revere nor revile Duke. I greatly respect GG, and thus I wished well for her teams. The Duke/Rutgers game was a classic and I didn't want either team to lose, given my respect for both.
Oh, and thanks for the kind words, DukeFan10. I had read of the press conference, but couldn't find it. It may be on the ESPN site by now.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 4:22 pm ::: |
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| As I said, cam, I'm going to let the Duke folks work this one out at this point. I'll just stand on the sidelines admiring particularly cutting blows.
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fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/18/07 4:24 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Hoops24/7 wrote: |
OK, now I'm ticked. I've been a huge Coach P fan for 3-4 years, and I'm not even in East Lansing. (Live in State College, which means that supporting the women's team here has been problematic at best.) I was really relieved when she signed the revised contract at MSU. She has a great crew, including Alyssa DeHaan, and prospects for next year were great. MSU also just welcomed a new assistant coach, Samantha Williams, whom McCallie recruited at Auburn. If she leaves for what will presumably be about a-bazillion dollars, my respect will be seriously dampened. Exactly how much money does a person need, anyway? She had said in the original talks w/ Florida that she was really concerned about how a move might affect her kids. Did that change? Maybe things have gotten very unpleasant on campus w/ her husband's assault charge. (He's not tenured, and while I can't imagine he would lose his job, it's pretty clear he's there because SHE'S there.)
Is there any such thing as loyalty anymore? Keeping one's word? I don't even wanna THINK about what a meeting w/ her team would look like.
Poop. |
On a scale of 1-10, the Florida job is a 3, the Duke job a 9. This is a move up and gives her the chance to start competing for titles next season and 3 out of 4 years, not once a decade. |
Good point. She has an incredible base to work with and the ACC is probably up there with the SEC in terms of conference strength.
I do feel for all the MSU fans. When your favorite coach leaves, it can be devastating. I know I would be upset for example, if Joanne Boyle had left Cal and the Pac-10. And of course, these contract extension apparently show us they mean little.
Good luck to Coach P. And good luck to MSU finding a suitable replacement.
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ZuG102
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: 04/18/07 6:48 pm ::: |
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Wow, I'm surprised, even though I know extensions don't mean much.
Good luck to Coach P at Duke.
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Koopster
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:06 pm ::: |
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| Hoops24/7 wrote: |
OK, now I'm ticked. I've been a huge Coach P fan for 3-4 years, and I'm not even in East Lansing. (Live in State College, which means that supporting the women's team here has been problematic at best.) I was really relieved when she signed the revised contract at MSU. She has a great crew, including Alyssa DeHaan, and prospects for next year were great. MSU also just welcomed a new assistant coach, Samantha Williams, whom McCallie recruited at Auburn. If she leaves for what will presumably be about a-bazillion dollars, my respect will be seriously dampened. Exactly how much money does a person need, anyway? She had said in the original talks w/ Florida that she was really concerned about how a move might affect her kids. Did that change? Maybe things have gotten very unpleasant on campus w/ her husband's assault charge. (He's not tenured, and while I can't imagine he would lose his job, it's pretty clear he's there because SHE'S there.)
Is there any such thing as loyalty anymore? Keeping one's word? I don't even wanna THINK about what a meeting w/ her team would look like.
Poop. |
Wondering if Semeka Randall knew this was going to happen before the move to West Virginia...doubt it.
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auntie
Joined: 16 May 2006
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:09 pm ::: |
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There is something I don't understand. I thought that Coach G left Duke because she was paid rather poorly. It now sound like Coach P is getting a pretty generous deal. Why didn't Duke just offer Coach G more money? Or was it the fact that she left that finally opened their eyes to provide a more competitive compensation package?
In any case, I do think that Coach P did quite a good job at MSU. And just because she didn't like recruiting doesn't mean she didn't do a pretty good job at it. There are parts of my job that I don't particularly like but I think i still do fairly well.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:09 pm ::: |
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| auntie wrote: |
| There is something I don't understand. I thought that Coach G left Duke because she was paid rather poorly. It now sound like Coach P is getting a pretty generous deal. Why didn't Duke just offer Coach G more money? Or was it the fact that she left that finally opened their eyes to provide a more competitive compensation package? |
Duke matched Coach G's financial offer from Texas. But there were non-financial components to the Texas position.
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