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pilight
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jammerbirdi
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 Posted: 04/18/07 2:10 pm ::: |
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| bluewolfvii wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I'm sorry. I just watched today's part two of the Oprah town hall meeting on this. I AM REPULSED by what I heard from the four men on that panel. |
I didn't see it. What repulsed you, Jammer? |
This two part Oprah town hall that aired Monday and Tuesday was as revealing as it was informative. They are both must see.
What repulsed me? Hypocrisy. Immaturity. Ignorance. Dishonesty. Those were the four guys on the panel. The women from Spellman College weren't buying it. Oprah wasn't buying it. The black journalists and intellectuals who were on the panel on Monday weren't buying it. But only the young black women from Spellman and the older former editor of Essence magazine and (briefly Oprah) were really ATTACKING it.
The panel on Monday was excellent in their analysis of the problem, but when it came to the wrap up question of What Next? only this older former editor of Essence (there were TWO former editors of Essence) had a clear honest and fearless answer. Everyone else offered shades of grey. They pulled their punches and my theory as to why they pulled their punches would probably piss a lot of people off.
This women's answer to the question of what needs to be done next stood out from the others so much that it was replayed on the second show yesterday, I would go as far to say, further isolating her in the process. I'm sure she's being called a sell out in a lot of places right now. And I'm sure some of the others on Monday's panel will be able to point to the fact that they didn't ultimately sell anyone out.
Tuesday's show was like four black Don Imus's up there making little boy excuses for themselves and telling us how great they really are if we only took the time to get to know them and rap stars like Snoop personally. In the context of post Imus, it was revolting. Almost unbelievable.
Oprah made a mistake in granting these guys so much time, unless there ultimately was value in letting them sit there and run their mouths and dig their graves like Imus was able to do. Oprah's audience is primarily women so maybe in the end it won't have been a mistake.
But it reminded me of the critique of the national news media heard of late in that they offer up two sides to each political argument and by doing so apportion (or GRANT) equal weight or validity to both sides. As in... World's Scientists Warn of Global Warming Catastrophe, Bush Administration Asserts Need For More Studies.
Again, the woman from Essence's voice stood out like someone ringing a bell. At the end of the day, she was the only REAL champion for women and black women in particular I saw up there who had, in terms of solutions, the guts to say what had to be said.
Let me tell you something. We need to get past the point and in a hurry in this country where black and white people are patting each other on the heads for just having a discussion. We're so fascinated with the concept of bringing people to the table and self congratulating each other for even being there that the real meat and potatoes are never actually being served._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:16 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| This women's answer to the question of what needs to be done next stood out from the others so much that it was replayed on the second show yesterday, I would go as far to say, further isolating her in the process. I'm sure she's being called a sell out in a lot of places right now. And I'm sure some of the others on Monday's panel will be able to point to the fact that they didn't ultimately sell anyone out. |
So, what did she say? Don't tease us this way.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:30 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
| Oprah made a mistake in granting these guys so much time, unless there ultimately was value in letting them sit there and run their mouths and dig their graves like Imus was able to do. |
I'd bet that Oprah's plan was to allow them sufficient amounts of rope. She's a master at knowing when to let people talk and when not to.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:45 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| This women's answer to the question of what needs to be done next stood out from the others so much that it was replayed on the second show yesterday, I would go as far to say, further isolating her in the process. I'm sure she's being called a sell out in a lot of places right now. And I'm sure some of the others on Monday's panel will be able to point to the fact that they didn't ultimately sell anyone out. |
So, what did she say? Don't tease us this way. |
Regarding the What Next? question on Monday:
She said that people need to LOSE THEIR JOBS. She said that maybe Snoop needs to LOSE HIS RECORDING CONTRACT. She said that Snoop maybe SHOULDN'T BE ON JAY LENO. (those are close to being quotes) She said that we've made people like Snoop mainstream and that that is why the mentality and vocabulary of people like Snoop is now such a entrenched part of American culture. (that's not even loosely a quote I'm just summing up some of her perspective from Monday.)
Here's the thing, the rub, whatever you want to call it. After all that African Americans have been through TOGETHER as a group in this country and as far as they've come to be guests on Jay Leno and highest ranking ever African American record industry executives, it seems to me to be VERY HARD for black people to point their fingers at other black people and say... 'He (or they) need to LOSE THEIR JOB. Rip up their contracts. Take them off of television, etc.'
That's understandable, but it's not WORKABLE. It's hypocritical and racist. And very VERY. transparent._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 04/18/07 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:47 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Oprah made a mistake in granting these guys so much time, unless there ultimately was value in letting them sit there and run their mouths and dig their graves like Imus was able to do. |
I'd bet that Oprah's plan was to allow them sufficient amounts of rope. |
Maybe we should stick with the grave digging metaphor.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/18/07 2:56 pm ::: |
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This great woman (I refuse to turn on the television and navigate through TIVO to get her name right now, but I will come back and edit in her name later) also said this after one long and ridiculously evasive and self serving statement by one of the four panalists. She raised her hand and said something like this... (again, I'll get the exact quote and change this later)
'Oprah. This just is making it clear that it is WOMEN who are going to have to change this situation. WE are going to have to say ENOUGH.'
I think at this point (maybe at another point) Oprah turned to the four stooges and said...
"Cause y'all ain't gettin' it."
lol!_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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pilight
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jammerbirdi
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bluewolfvii
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| Posted: 04/18/07 5:51 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
This two part Oprah town hall that aired Monday and Tuesday was as revealing as it was informative. They are both must see.
What repulsed me? Hypocrisy. Immaturity. Ignorance. Dishonesty. Those were the four guys on the panel. The women from Spellman College weren't buying it. Oprah wasn't buying it. The black journalists and intellectuals who were on the panel on Monday weren't buying it. But only the young black women from Spellman and the older former editor of Essence magazine and (briefly Oprah) were really ATTACKING it.
The panel on Monday was excellent in their analysis of the problem, but when it came to the wrap up question of What Next? only this older former editor of Essence (there were TWO former editors of Essence) had a clear honest and fearless answer. ..
Tuesday's show was like four black Don Imus's up there making little boy excuses for themselves and telling us how great they really are if we only took the time to get to know them and rap stars like Snoop personally. In the context of post Imus, it was revolting. Almost unbelievable.
..Again, the woman from Essence's voice stood out like someone ringing a bell. At the end of the day, she was the only REAL champion for women and black women in particular I saw up there who had, in terms of solutions, the guts to say what had to be said.
Let me tell you something. We need to get past the point and in a hurry in this country where black and white people are patting each other on the heads for just having a discussion. We're so fascinated with the concept of bringing people to the table and self congratulating each other for even being there that the real meat and potatoes are never actually being served. |
That is a powerful statement, Jammer.
Thanks for the excellent post. I must find a way to see this Oprah town hall.
But my fear is that this pop phenomena of romantizing the gangster culture including its sexist lexicon isn't going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. You might as well try to take the cigarette out of Humphrey Bogart's mouth, make Elvis wear looser pants, cut the Beatles hair.
It's big business.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/18/07 6:55 pm ::: |
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| bluewolfvii wrote: |
But my fear is that this pop phenomena of romantizing the gangster culture including its sexist lexicon isn't going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. You might as well try to take the cigarette out of Humphrey Bogart's mouth, make Elvis wear looser pants, cut the Beatles hair. |
Calling black women hos and bitches for 20 years AND MEANING IT is like Bogie, Elvis, and the Beatles hair?
Then what would make it okay to take the mic away from Don Imus and in the process silence ALL of those incredibly dialed-in journalists and intellectual voices who for hours and hours on end every day gave in depth behind the scenes information and analysis on so many political fronts?
God I don't think ANY of the people calling for Don Imus to be fired were actual consumers of his product or knew what they were going after.
But it's GONE NOW and suddenly Al Sharpton can't come up with a name of someone for us to focus on next.
At one point guest hosting Hardball last week David Gregory was talking to Craig Crawford, the editor of the Congressional Quarterly, along with two female black academics calling for and/or celebrating Imus's firing. Gregory said, almost as if he were just coming to the realization, Craig, I don't think these people calling for Don Imus to be fired even know what his show was about." Something like that.
I watched Imus for years. TIVO'd Imus. I would show clips to mrs. jammer. I KNOW what Imus's show was. I agree wholeheartedly that he had to go, he proved to me in the week after the comment that he JUST DIDN'T GET IT.
But I don't think anyone who really didn't watch that show understands what this was that the plug was pulled on. Jeff Greenfield said that in the past 15 years Imus had transformed his show into what he called a "salon" for people (I hope we all know who by now) to come on and say things that they wouldn't say anywhere else.
But now it's like "Well we can't change EVERYTHING now, can we? We got rid of the evil white racist/misogynist who none of us have ever watched or even heard of but we can't come up with NAMES of any recording stars or industry executives to FIRE even thought our entire culture in the US and around the world has been infected with the bitches and ho vernacular for over 20 years."
I'm sorry. I'm just real pissed at where we are this week. The bullshit. The excuses. The defeatism. The 'we don't want to point fingers' bullshit.
Imus was fired from CBS on Thursday. Al Sharpton was on Oprah on Monday. That's four days. He SAYS that they're going to go after "these record companies." But oops, he doesn't have any names. And he didn't have just those four days to come up with some names of people, entertainers or executives, TO BE FIRED, by his own admission, he's been "going after" the recording industry for years. Good job, Al. The only person whose head you have to show for all your years of going after the recording industry is Don Imus who happened to run the best 'salon' for honest political discourse and inside political information in the country.
Who are we firing this week is what I want to know? How about if we ratched UP the scorn in proportion to the damage of the offense? How about that?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:02 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| bluewolfvii wrote: |
But my fear is that this pop phenomena of romantizing the gangster culture including its sexist lexicon isn't going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. You might as well try to take the cigarette out of Humphrey Bogart's mouth, make Elvis wear looser pants, cut the Beatles hair. |
Calling black women hos and bitches for 20 years AND MEANING IT is like Bogie, Elvis, and the Beatles hair?
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Whoa - slow down Jammer!
That's not even close to what Blue said - or implied.
There's some good discussion here and I'm enjoying reading what everyone is contributing, but let's not accuse people of saying something they didn't!
Write on!
: )
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Slovydal
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:18 pm ::: |
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| Slovydal wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| bluewolfvii wrote: |
But my fear is that this pop phenomena of romantizing the gangster culture including its sexist lexicon isn't going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. You might as well try to take the cigarette out of Humphrey Bogart's mouth, make Elvis wear looser pants, cut the Beatles hair. |
Calling black women hos and bitches for 20 years AND MEANING IT is like Bogie, Elvis, and the Beatles hair?
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Whoa - slow down Jammer!
That's not even close to what Blue said - or implied.
There's some good discussion here and I'm enjoying reading what everyone is contributing, but let's not accuse people of saying something they didn't!
Write on!
: ) |
It's defeatist, slovy. Blue said that we QUOTE "might as well try to take the cigarette out of Humphrey Bogart's mouth, make Elvis wear looser pants, cut the Beatles hair" as try to get rid of the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle and lexicon. I'm not saying she isn't right. She's right. You're right, blue. But it pisses me off that that's where we are as a country on the issue of misogyny and racism that was brought up by Don Imus. It's corrupt. We're sitting around this week smuggly on our left leaning gay lesbian black white fat ASSES feeling good about the fact that we were able to expell Don Imus from the airwaves, but now suddenly no SPECIFIC people or companies are going to be held to the same fire?
That's bullshit.
Look, the moment is RAPIDLY passing us wherein ANYTHING good could be done at all. Monday and Tuesday and V-Tech happens and we're turning the page already. It's over. Al Sharpton and Stanley Crouch AND Oprah needed to have the names of the people who were NEXT in line behind Imus to go.
It's VERY disturbing to think that this SHIT these STUPID LOW CLASS ASSHOLES call MUSIC and POETRY is going to run endlessly as a soundtrack to the lives of black woman AND the rest of us but I'm never going to hear Don Imus pulling information out of the managing and other editors of the New Yorker, Newsweek, Time, NBC News, the Congressional Quarterly, the Washington Post, the legends at the op-ed desks of the New York Times. Maureen Dowd. Tom Friedman. Frank Rich. I'm never going to EVER hear ANYONE call a United States Senator a weasel to his face AGAIN.
You better BELIEVE I'm not the only one who's pissed.
The problem is that the victims NEVER CHANGE.
Sorry, blue. You know I love you._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Slovydal
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/18/07 7:29 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| Look, the moment is RAPIDLY passing us wherein ANYTHING good could be done at all. Monday and Tuesday and V-Tech happens and we're turning the page already. It's over... |
American's short attention span is once again our downfall.
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jammerbirdi
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bluewolfvii
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bluewolfvii
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bluewolfvii
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| Posted: 04/19/07 4:54 pm ::: |
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Hip-hop industry meets on Imus
http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/am-imus0419,0,1391114.story?coll=ny-giants-print
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Hip-hop pioneer Russell Simmons convened a closed-door meeting in midtown Wednesday with record label executives and scheduled a news conference to announce major initiatives presumably related with rap's reliance on the N-word and its frequent characterization of women as "bitches and hos."
But the issue turned out to be thornier than expected and the announcement was postponed.
"As you know, this is a complex issue that involves gender, race, culture and artistic expression" said a statement from Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit Action Network. "Everyone assembled today takes this issue very seriously and our dialogue is ongoing." |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 04/19/07 7:32 pm ::: |
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| bluewolfvii wrote: |
Hip-hop industry meets on Imus
http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/am-imus0419,0,1391114.story?coll=ny-giants-print
| Quote: |
Hip-hop pioneer Russell Simmons convened a closed-door meeting in midtown Wednesday with record label executives and scheduled a news conference to announce major initiatives presumably related with rap's reliance on the N-word and its frequent characterization of women as "bitches and hos."
But the issue turned out to be thornier than expected and the announcement was postponed.
"As you know, this is a complex issue that involves gender, race, culture and artistic expression" said a statement from Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit Action Network. "Everyone assembled today takes this issue very seriously and our dialogue is ongoing." |
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I guess I didn't mention that Russell Simmons was one of the Four Stooges on Oprah. He had more ways of repeating the old saw that the offensive lyrics are a reflection of what is going on in the culture than he has dollars. It was a weak dried up argument that came out of his mouth and fell onto the ears of a room full of genteel and enlightened women.
He was pathetic._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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