RebKell's Junkie Boards

[LTF1]

Courtesy of the poster women'shoops:

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tpsports/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tpsports/archives/2007_03.html#244725

re contrasting styles of Chatman and Starkey:"Paradoxically, given the allegations against Chatman and the microscope they have trained on the program, the oncourt atmosphere under Starkey seems lighter...While not a martinet, [Chatman] was sparing with her praise, and when she unloaded the players froze."

Could it be that maybe at least SOME LSU players are not all that unhappy to see Chatman gone? In any case what a lot of folks around BR think (including myself) is that Pokey's coaching was a bit over-rated. Not her RECRUITING mind you, that everyone recognizes was her strength. But a good game coach? I'm not so sure. Seimone Augustus, Temeka Johnson and Sylvia Fowles and NO NC game?

Perhaps not surprisingly, Chatman had many of the same coaching flaws as her mentor: sticking to formulas like two fouls before the half and your out no matter what the situation; playing a limited number of--hmmm--favored? players, pulling out the inexperienced sub the moment after she made a mistake but letting the stars stay in and fall all overthemselves on a bad day...

LSU lost a great recruiting coach...

[beknighted]

My take is pretty much a variation on "too early to tell."

LSU was supposed to win this weekend's games, and should be a big favorite to win against FSU. While I'll give Starkey et al. credit for avoiding panic, in the end LSU's talent should have been enough to win even with mediocre coaching.

Also, coaches come whole - recruiting plus game planning plus motivation plus game coaching. A smart coach can build a staff that addresses her weaknesses, and maybe Pokey did that, but it's hard to separate the recruiter from the game coach.

[Koopster]

[fancy_daniel]

[Kamala]

[LTF1]

fancydaniel:"I remember Pat Summitt joined a broadcast team last year scouting LSU and one of her comments was that LSU has the best motion offense in the game."

That motion offense was brought to the LadyTigers by Bob Starkey to put life into Gunter's stagnate offenses. And it is interesting that the LadyTigers turned things around (Sue was on the verge of being fired in the mid-90s) when Starkey came over from LSU's men's team.

And even mediocre coaches would have a pretty darn good record with a Seimone Augustus, Sylvia Fowles and Temeka Johnson. Heck a really good coach might have even won an NC with them

[Kamala]

[LTF1]

Yeah, Pokey Chatman, Dale Brown.

BeK:"LSU...should be a big favorite to win against FSU."

LSU shouldn't be a "big" favorite against anybody from 12 down to 1. LSU COULD win or lose big in any given game but more likely they will win or lose something like 52-48 be it Florida State or UNC or TN or whoever

[honey]

[LTF1]

What's race got to do with it? I wasn't referencing race at all (but some folks apparently have it on the brain 24/7).

Dale Brown, Pat Summit, Geno, Kim M I think were/are great recruiting coaches. Personally, I don't think Summit is very good with her x's and o's esp when coaching against LSU who she often insists on playing man defense against and as a result loses against LSU more than to any other SEC team in the last ten years. Kim onth I think is a good game coach as well as recruiter

The great Gunter couldn't coach her way out of a paper bag and was lucky to have Chatman (recruiting) and Starkey (coaching) to save her job.

Kamala: "The CBS affiliate in Baton Rouge said that Van Chancellor is very interested in the WBB job at LSU then the reporter goes on to say that he (Van Chancellor) is married with 3 kids. WTF!! But, we have people on this board saying that Baton Rouge is not homophobic!! Sure (sarcasm)."

I thought you said we'd just have to disagree? Apparently not. How is reporting on the marital status of a high profile coaching position "homophobic"? When Chatman replaced Gunter it was reported in the local media that she was single and without kids and GUESS WHAT she got a $400,000 a year job! (If that is a sign of homophobia, I could do with a little homophobia directed my way...but alas I am married and have a kid)

The fact is that there are many Chatman supporters who want to believe that she quit not because she was having an inappropriate relationship with a player(s) while she was coaching said player(s). Instead they want to believe that she was fired for being black and in a lesbian relationship. Well, that is not true.

Thank goodness Carla Berry is black and (rumored) to be lesbian because otherwise the folks who see only racism and homophobia everytime they turnaround would be having a field day.

[Kamala]

[LTF1]

Kamala:"And, no you didn't refer to race but I took it upon myself to bring up race because I felt that to only speak of Pokey as a great recruiter is a slight."

You shouldn't have taken it upon yourself to insinuate that I meant it as a slight (as no one else posted on that aspect of the topic). Again, I think Pokey is a great recruiter and an ok game coach. For the record, I think Carolyn Peck is a great game coach and a terrible recruiter (how does that fit into YOUR stereotyping?)

Kamala:" had to mention WAFB reporting on Van Chancellor's marital and parental status b/c to me it has ZERO bearing on his coaching ability...I don't remember anyone in the media mentioning Pokey's marriage or parental status."

I do and she was even asked (GASP!) if marriage was in her future! Homophobia run amok! [sarcasm]. Enquiring minds want to know. Personally I don't care who Russel Crowe fought with last, it has nothing to do with his acting ability. But some people do, but it doesn't mean they have a pathological interest in violence.

Kamala:"But, just cause a homosexual is hired at a nice salary doesn't mean that the person doing the hiring is not homophobic. I think it means the person doing the hiring knows the homosexual person can do the job."

I thought "phobia" would mean an irrational fear of which the sufferer would do her/his utmost to avoid. By "homophobic" would your definition include someone who supported civil unions but not same-sex marriage? (I'm just trying to determine how big a homophobic net is being thrown around here)

[one4dthumb]

I suppose it should be noted as a great advance in the culture that no one can stand the thought that they harbor racist or homophobic ideas. But I have to agree with posters like Kamala that racism and homophobia no longer look like Archie Bunker. We all know enough not to rant and rave in public, or even to allow ourselves to formulate overtly racist/homophoic notions. But these ideas are woven into the fabric of our culture. So when people praise Barak Obama as articulate, a firestorm erupts. I have to confess, I never even thought of how the word articulate had become so freighted with significance, but once it was pointed out, I wondered how I had missed it. I had missed it because I am white.

It is not fun to have unexamined prejudices, however nuanced, made manifest, but I try to cultivate the habit of mind to accept reports from the field, as it were. I know for a fact that I do not aspire to be racist, but I also know that I live in a culture where racism percolates throughout and I am not always atuned to all its manifestations. So when someone who is Black or Hispanic clues me in that something I had never given a moment's thought to is an aspect of racism gone underground, I take note. I don't take it as an acusation that I am probably a member of the Klan.

It isn't easy to change a culture and it doesn't happen over night. The good news is that we no longer think it's cool to be racist homophobes. The bad news is that we too often respond with a bunch of anger when someone points out that we haven't quite managed to erase either of these illnesses from our culture.

[LTF1]

Of course racism and hostility to gays and lesbians still exists, but racial and homophobic slights can be imagined or constructed where they do not exist. My calling Pokey a good recruiter but a so-so game coach could only be construed as racist if one was placing me in a stereotype that such remarks about any black coach must neccessarily be racist.

To avoid being called a racist in such a circumstance, a non-black person could never call any black coach a poor game coach. Indeed to avoid any charge of racism it would be best not to be critical of black coaches at all. That's absurd and racism of a different kind (but no less destructive)

I was critical of Gunter and I am critical of Chatman (especially in light of what has happened in recent weeks). I know---I'm a misogynist! [sarcasm button]

I better go check this with my wife

[PurdueBBall3]

Oh dear. It appears that LTF has brought his I'm so right/you're more wrong than you could begin to know sarcastic-in-the-worst-sense-of-the-word attitude to this board. *sigh

_________________
"Boo-hoo. Oh, boo-hoo. Waaaah, waaaah, waaaaah." Notably Dumb's Muffie (Bitch) Yuckgraw

[hooper1]

[LTF1]

Hooper:"And despite the vague allegations floating around, many people will still call her one of the top ten in the game... because she is one of the top coaches we have in women's basketball."

Shouldn't that read "she is one of the top coaches we HAD in women's basketball"?

And top ten, after what 3 seasons? I guess the pool of "top coaches" in WCBB is pretty shallow.

PBB3:"Oh dear. It appears that LTF has brought his I'm so right/you're more wrong than you could begin to know sarcastic-in-the-worst-sense-of-the-word attitude to this board. *sigh"

Well, as the make up of this board is almost exactly like old board, it would seem that I am not the only one with such an "attitude." And like the other board, if one wants to avoid me, it's pretty easy: don't read my posts. (Something you always did have problems with PBB3)

[hooper1]

[NK]

[LTF1]

hooper:"So, yes, she is one of the top coaches in women's basketball."

Not "is", but "was." And I think I was taking issue with the idea that she was one of the "ten" best coaches, not that she was simply a "top" coach. To be a top ten coach I would think that you would have to have coached more than a couple of years. I think it would be pretty easy for a lot of folks to credibly find 10 coaches that they think are better than Chatman was.

I think most high school coaches could have won a fair number of SEC games with Augustus and Fowles on the same team. (But then I don't dare compliment Chatman for her recruiting skills, as some think that is racist as I have discovered)

[hooper1]

[bluewolfvii]

Nice Graham Hays article today on LSU and the specter of Chatman.

[dtsnms]

[bluewolfvii]

[4ever_bball_fan]

They might have dedicated this Championship run to Chatman, but they are playing their guts out for Starkey, and each other.

Now we know why Mulkey was so hacked off about the Hightower signing... What a shooter.

_________________
The competitor with the will to win also has the will to work. John Wooden.