RebKell's Junkie Boards

[24duzitall]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2808469



"One Division I coach whom I respect greatly told me several years ago that at the start of every season, she tells her players: "OK, look around. We're different races. We come from different parts of the country. We like different kinds of music. Some of our families are wealthy; some aren't. Some of us are gay; some are straight. Some are religious; some aren't. We don't have to agree on everything. But part of wearing this uniform means that we all accept and respect each other."

All coaches in every sport should say the same thing -- and live up to it themselves. "

_________________
RIP my sweet boy Indi...my grumpy old man Charlie...precious Oliver and my sweet girl Faith

[thesixthwoman]

[CourtsideTix]

[LTF1]

Voepel:"This is not to say that someone such as Suzie McConnell Serio... can't be a candidate. I've had good experiences in all my dealings with her."

Gee, I hope LSU clears it with Voepel before they hire their new coach! I mean what if a she hasn't had "good experiences" with her? Does that mean watch out for Veopel's pen, she'll be out to get your program? Not that she hasn't done that in the past, no, uh uh, no way, not Voepel, no agenda there.

[RedEqualsLuck]

since it's clear you have no agenda... right?

Voepel is speaking from her experience -- which is as she should. If in the past she's not had any hint from Suzie that she's a flaming pro-active homophobe why can't she say that?

Me, I'd love them to clean house and start anew. I don't have a healthy feeling about Suzie....

_________________
When Jefferson wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," he didn't include the word "except."

[dtsnms]

[womens_hoops]

I wouldn't mind if they hired Suzie. It would be a healing move. It would please Portland supporters. But Suzie has also coached lots of lesbians before, and as far as I know, she always treated them with fairness and respect.

I wish she wouldn't have said some of the things she did, or I wish she would have said some other things, but that weighs less heavily in my mind than the way she actually coached gay players on her teams.

I also don't mind Voepel expressing her opinion on what they should do and whom they should hire. That's what sports columnists do.

[sparkfan33]

Way to go Voepel. Another fine article ...... as usual!

It was fair, concise and as a writer it is okay to give your opinion.

By fair, it included many observations that Portland had opportunities to make statements and adhere to the Penn State policy and try and put the past behind her.

By concise, it included the whole sordid history in a couple of paragraphs, and anyone who did not know the history could grasp it within those couple of paragraphs.

Writers write, and their opinions come from their experience, and no one should question that Voepel has a wealth of real womens college basketball experience. Her opinion is that new blood is needed to help heal the festering toothache (great analogy by the way) is well within her rights.

I also loved her quote at the end about treating all people equal regardless of their background ...... This applies to all life's situations especially in any workplace environment.

Great plug for Womens Hoops blog, as well. How cool is that.

[LTF1]

Voepel is using her power of the pen to interfere with someone's employment prospects. In the process she admits that she has no negative info on this Suzie person but has taken it upon herself to tell what Penn State must do to be redeemed ie not hire her. And if they do hire her, the threat is there that Voepel might well continue to wage war against the school as she has done now for several years.

Voepel certainly has a right to her opinions, she also has a responsibility to consider the consequences of her opinions on the well-being of individuals, particularly those who have done her no harm. But perhaps her cause must come before any one person's well-being.

As for me having an agenda, I do, but it does not include interfering in people's employment. I would like to see far less politics in wcbb. I think it hurts the sport. Indeed I think some folks see wcbb as a form of activism and care more about how many closeted or open lesbian coaches and players there are than how the game is played. It also amazes me how those who see themselves as compassionate people can be so brutal to those who disagree with them.

[dtsnms]

[LTF1]

dtsnms:"are you for real?" Yes, I checked in the mirror and was still there.

dtsnms:"seriously, your posts get more and more bizarre by the day?"

If you don't like them, don't read them.

dtsnms:"Has your zoloft 'script expired or something?"

I don't know what "zoloft" is, but if it is a form of medication should you be making fun of people who are on it?

[PurdueBBall3]

LTF, it appears your sole purpose in coming onto messageboards is to be piously combative. It was that way on the ESPN board and now you want to continue the tone here. I don't know what your personal "issues" are (need attention?) that keep you doing this, but I will tell you that your posts are usually a waste of my attention to read. So, *poof*, I won't read them anymore. Adios, pendejo.

_________________
"Boo-hoo. Oh, boo-hoo. Waaaah, waaaah, waaaaah." Notably Dumb's Muffie (Bitch) Yuckgraw

[fancy_daniel]

[timeout]

[LTF1]

Well I can see group-think and no toleration for contrary opinions is alive and well here.

timeout:"I would suggest that Rene Portland might have benefited from an understanding of that responsibility herself."

I agree and she paid for it to the tune of $10,000. Case closed.

pbb:"LTF, it appears your sole purpose in coming onto messageboards is to be piously combative. It was that way on the ESPN board and now you want to continue the tone here"

And you didn't like me there either. It takes at least two to be combative. I am glad you are not reading this or any other of my posts, as in that way we won't be in conflict. Whew!

redequalluck:" I don't have a healthy feeling about Suzie...." (Let the witch hunt continue!)

Why not? Was it something Voepel said? or Courtside Tix?:"Probably because SMS has gone overboard in defending Rene publicly..."

And after Suzie, who's next? Assistant coaches? Former players who say nice things about Portland? I suspect they will all be put under a microscope if they dare stay in wbb. Then the whispering, the innuendo, the unnamed sources in blogs and columns...

"Exhuming McCarthy"

[bballjunkee212]

Wait, is that the LTF?! Welcome to RebKell-land! Boy, have I missed you! Don't agree with hardly anything you write, but that's was bbs are for, eh what?

For me, Voepel very neatly tied up a piece of loose end regarding Rene Portland.

I respect what she has done as one of the pioneers of wcbb. I have also respected her abilities as a coach. I have not cared one bit for her personality, attitude in general or her thinly veiled holier-than-thou bigotry. Rene Portland did much for the sport-- although if not her, I suspect it might have been someone else. She has coached well over the years-- her record demonstrates that. At the same time, I am glad she wasn't my next-door neighbor. At the same time, when you add up all the personal strife she has caused, it is a difficult thing to have the good outweigh the bad.

So how does one reconcile this? Can we chalk it up to Rene being a flawed being, just as we all are? I don't think so, when she held a highly compensated, highly responsible position of influence. So it's a tough thing for me to just write her off.

Then Voepel reminds me that Rene herself never did or said anything to answer or counter the negativity that surrounded her. And Rene was always in a position to be heard. In effect, Rene made a choice to let the things be said. And unless she dies, and we cut her open and find a tumor in her brain, we must conclude that her choice to allow the cloud to settle over herself-- and PSU, and all of her players-- was a knowing choice, probably driven by a deep-seated conviction that she was right and "they" were wrong.

It's the choice, which Voepel reminded me of, that makes it easy for me to look past Rene Portland.

As for Voepel, as long as what she writes is accurate and rational, I have no problem with whose ox it may gore-- even if it was to gore mine. When people seek out jobs and careers that put them in the public spotlight, they are susceptible to public discussion-- good or ill-- and the public-- especially the media- has no duty to pull punches so those who seek the limelight can land a little softer when they fall.

_________________
~Bill

[beknighted]

I have mixed emotions about the possibility of SMS going to Penn State. On the one hand, she seems to be pretty well qualified, she seems to have demonstrated that she doesn't have Portland's issues in her previous jobs and she'd be a very popular choice with a lot of the Penn State family because of her previous association with the team. On the other, her support for Portland is a bit disturbing, and could make you wonder if she's just going to continue the same old thing.

On the whole, I come out on the positive side (although, as a footnote, I wonder if she might not be better off letting somebody else take the Penn State job now, since I think the next couple of years could be rough, and coming in to replace that person). The Harris situation forced former PSU players to choose sides, and it's hard to side against a coach who was central to your career, and who probably served as a mentor. Keep in mind, too, that she graduated from Penn State nearly 20 years ago and almost certainly saw pretty much only Portland's better self. It's not at all unusual for people who are treated differently to have entirely different views of a coach, so it's easy to imagine that SMS had a hard time believing that Portland could have done the things that were reported. I'm not going to condemn someone for supporting a person who probably meant a lot to her life, particularly because everything I've seen that SMS said was pretty much about her experiences.

That said, if there were another otherwise equal candidate, I might choose the other one, just because some people will wonder about SMS's association with Portland. In the real world, though, that's not going to happen, so I think SMS is a reasonable choice for the job.

(BTW, I'm with bballjunkie on LTF, not that my opinion matters that much. I often don't agree with him (although we do share similar views on automatically pulling a player when she gets her 2nd foul in the first half), but I don't care. People don't have to agree with me even when I'm 100 percent right ( ), and I've found I learn a lot more from people who disagree with me than people who share my opinions.)

[CB]

[womens_hoops]

[cthskzfn]

seems like old times...how long before ltf pledges to leave the board if lsu doesn't win the NC?!




i'm not sure if i've read all of voepel's words re: pokeygate, but did she voice concern that lsu should be careful not hire a coach similar to pokey?

[bandanaman1998]

[LTF1]

yes bbj, it is me. And I appreciate the kind words from both you and BeK.

CTh:"seems like old times...how long before ltf pledges to leave the board if lsu doesn't win the NC?! "

Not for awhile The old board wore me out and it was nice to be away not posting on any bb boards for a year.

CB:"LTF1, in an earlier post, you said, "that Suzie woman" which indicates to me you don't have knowledge of this Portland situation"

I followed it up until I went off the ESPN board last year. Personally, I think it is all much ado about very little. Portland is a dinosaur and I saw no reason not to let her lead out her final coaching years in peace in the absence of hard evidence against her. I have trouble believing that any lesbian in her right mind would go and play for Portland in the first place as there were certainly a plethora of opportunities elsewhere and at better programs.

The Harris thing always struck me as a discipline problem, not a lesbian problem and certainly not a race problem which Harris tried to turn it into (and which even PSU cleared Portland on). I'm sorry, I never bought claiming to be discriminated against (a starter no less) b/c the coach thought you were a lesbian but you weren't but was operating on black lesbian stereotypes so she thought you were. Confusing? Yeah. Harris was hardly Rosa Parks.

Portland was largely persecuted b/c of things she said before PSU's 1991 anti-discrimination policy included homosexuals. I think Portland tried to keep lesbians off her team by telegraphing that they would be unwelcome. That was a violation of Penn's policy but one very difficult to prove--and I don't think Harris proved it. What? suggesting players wear dresses, or change their hair, or not get tatooed or whatever hardly strikes me as serious blows to one's self-esteem. I think Harris and Portland didn't get along and the former knew what buttons to push and the lawyers found her easily enough.

As for the $10,000 fine, my guess is that it was worth it for Portland to pay it, and the best PSU could do because they didn't have real solid evidence to fire her. Portland could have sued and everyone could have wound up looking very silly.

Now Portland has left and the university is relieved and my guess that Portland is relieved as well. And she is in much better shape than Chatman as Portland is at the end of her career whereas Chatman's is over as it just got started. Portland left on a losing season which is understandable, Chatman left under a cloud of allegations that if she does not explain will leave her forgotten far more quickly than Rene Portland.

women'shoops:"If a columnist in Michigan says "we should hire Borseth instead of Miller", is that "using the power of his pen to interfere with someone's employment prospects"?

It depends, if the columnist prefers one coach to another b/c she thinks that coach is a better coach is one thing. If the columnist on the other hand is against a potential coach based on nothing more than guilt by association, I think that is very wrong.

women's hoops:"you didn't seem to mind the group-think when it came to Pokey. i guess group-think is ok when you agree with it. "

I don't understand whay you mean here. I found a sizable minority (indeed if not a majority) in support of Chatman. The board seems to be divided (although less so as more info came out).

women'shoops:"give me a fucking break."

Is the average age of members of this board 15?

[womens_hoops]

[Soonerville]

_________________
"You can be sure that you've created God in your own image, when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." (Anne Lamott)

[LTF1]

womenshoops:"Have you seen the evidence that PSU uncovered in its investigation?"

Have you? If you have, please provide the link and I will read it and maybe change my opinion.

wh:"Why do you assume that Rene is innocent, but you assume that Pokey is guilty?"

I take Chatman's resignation as an admission of guilt. If Portland had beat Ohio St (which she nearly did), I doubt she would have resigned. And I don't assume Rene is innocent of everything, I just don't believe that her behavior required her to lose her job.

wh:"Isn't it also wrong to discriminate against gay people even if your school hasn't yet gotten around to making a rule against it?"

The vast majority of people in 2007 (and long before) understands it is unethical at the least to mess with a student. In 1991, the majority of Americans did not think it particularly wrong to discriminate against lesbians. Indeed, as late as I think 1970, the American Psychiatry association considered homosexuality a mental illness (when Portland would have been about 20 years old). It takes time for values to change and lots of people are a bit slow changing.

wh:"bullshit. for what?" I find people who swear in public repeatedly have a difficult time otherwise expressing themselves...but no matter. If as I suspect, Portland was right and the process against was "flawed", and she had been terminated, she could have sued for breach of contract. She might have lost...or not, but the university would have had to make very public its evidence, which I doubt it wanted to.

wh:"Why don't you just have the balls to come out and say what you believe: that you don't think Portland did anything wrong. That you don't care if she did discriminate against lesbians -- that you don't think she should be fired for that anyway."

I do think she treated Harris and the other two (who curiously we never hear of or from) wrongly. I think she should have been reprimanded and she was to $10,000. I am not nearly so sure that she discriminated in any signficant way against lesbians after 1991, and I doubt she had many on her team in those years (Harris apparently wasn't)

If she clearly violated Penn's anti-discrimination policy I think she should have been warned, then reprimanded, and then fired. Penn St seemed to follow that approach and policy, just as LSU followed its policy toward Chatman