RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Gaucho Don]

this wasn't really what I was looking for at the NCAA site, but very interesting anyway:

alright, I couldn't make the link work, but it's the top story here:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal

After looking at when the position was issued, it has been a few days, so maybe it was already posted here... if so, sorry for the duplicate.

[RubberTroll]

direct link to 'CWA takes stance against male practice players'

Special Geek notice for "ncaa.org" articles: Selecting 'email this article' and cutting that URL from the email template that launches gives more managable URL to paste.

[auntie]

I don't get it. Playing against men really helps prepare top teams. So by getting rid of male practice players, the standard of play would be lowered.

_________________
A woman's place is in the paint--Another artist for Liberty.

[bballjunkee212]

It's politics, plain and simple. They justify it with two ridiculous claims: First, that it reduces opportunities for women, and second, because "the notion of male preeminence impedes the towards gender equity and inclusion."

So, what coach would go recruit a bunch of club-level women to play against her D1 scholarship athletes? Exactly. So a male practice squad deprives no woman of any opportunities.

Is there any serious doubt that, all things being equal, men are generally bigger, stronger and faster than women? Let's deny the fact and see if the fact changes.

But let's take a closer look at the proposed "fix" for this "injustice": Limit the number of male practice players; limit the number of practices against male practice players. I'm sorry, but if this is truly a matter of principle, how would a compromise solve the problem, or even be acceptable?

Clearly, clearly, something else is at work here. I am guessing that the "something else" goes like this: Programs with lower budgets than the UConns and UTs (an now, prolly OUs, UNCs and MDs) of the world have a hard time coming up with the scratch to field a male practice team, and probably have some Title IX implications when part of the budget goes to dressing male practice players. Some people might complain that every dollar that goes to putting a practice jersey and providing towels to the male players is a dollar not spent on women. Add to that the likelihood that teams with male practice teams probably have a distinct advantage in competition.

So, do away with male practice players-- or better yet, let's cite some bullshit reasons why they're bad, then propose limits that fit everybody's budget. Then, as the quality of wcbb grinds towards mediocrity, the Powers That Be can proclaim "parity!"

_________________
~Bill

[womens_hoops]

this is absolutely retarded.

[luvDhoops]

[Rothum]

OK let me play the other side of the discussion...

Why is it presummed that male players are better than female players to practise against?

Why is the presumption that hired male scrubs will improve the game of women?

What if say Latasha Byers had been paid to play as a practise player when she was being blackballed?

Katie Cronin chased her dream to play in the W for what 7 years? Until she made a team. Could she not have made a good practise player?

Who is no longer playing who could be a practise player? This board's favorite to mock Stacy Thomas... why not hire her. Say what you will, she has a ring and none of us do.

Perhaps there is more to this issue than just the surface...

_________________
Kindness should never be random.
Sun STH

"What do you do when those with all the power are harming those who have none? You start by standing up and telling the truth."

I write for Off-Court.com Anything I write on this website are my own views and do not represent the organization in anyway.

[PUmatty]

[harlem_basketball]

I don't think it's safe to assume that they're using male "scrubs". It depends on the school. It's not a matter of men being "better" than women unless that's how you choose to look at it. It's a matter of men being physically stronger, taller and more athletic than most women which allows women to adjust.

When you have played against a guy who is 6'2, 200lbs, with point guard handle, it gives you more flexibility than say a female practice player who is 6'2, 200lbs and has been taught to be a post player all her life. Also, there are plenty of good male players who don't make their college teams or don't want to play organized ball whereas most women who are capable of or interested in playing at that level are already on the team.

Even pro players swear by playing against men during the offseason. I don't know if Becky's not still a turnover machine if she doesn't spend her offseasons since '02 running drills where she's bringing the ball up full court against guys that are quicker than the average W player and believe you me, these were far from "scrubs".

_________________
Best W interview ever http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hoopsinthesun/2010/12/14/hits-radio-season-2-show-10-with-former-wnba-all-s

[eyevolley4]

First, I have been a volleyball practice player for the past three years and have been asked to be a basketball practice player but didn't have nearly enough time.

Second, I'm 6'2 200, exactly what harlem described, and would have fulfilled a similar role to what was described.

Finally... this ruling is completely stupid.

While I don't necessarily play to my potential every practice, my presence helps prepare the girls for matches against teams with superior physical talent. My versatility makes the practices more versatile as I am able to throw a lot of different sort of talents at the starting squad and can prepare them for all sorts of different aspects of a team.

You know what I get in compensation for four hours of my time a week (and what used to be 8+ hours)????????????????

....................NOTHING!

I want to know who the girl is that I replaced or the girl that will be replacing me.

STUPID!

_________________
Some days are meant to be remembered.

[bullsky]

Is this just college? Because I know my high school girls basketball team uses male practice players I think...

_________________
"Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma

[jimmyk]

When are you people going to learn that the NCAA has exactly no sense?

[LadyDevilFan]

[timber]

1. Male practice players are almost a necessity for mid majors on down where you don't have the depth in your roster to run a high-level competitive practice and don't have the fan base/talent pool of other willing participants on campus.

For the most part, the team is about all you're going to get when it comes to girls who want to ball and half of them are there because they're tall or don't mind the free ride. There would be 20 students at my school's games unless we were playing some in-state rival.

2. Not every male practice player is some bum who gets a kick out of beating girls because he couldn't make his middle school squad. Some are, but a lot aren't.

Speaking from personal experience, my ex chose an engineering scholarship over a number of D1 basketball scholarships. He was a better player than most of the guys on the men's team but knew he couldn't carry a full course load, work and play ball. So he helped the girls team out by joining their practice squad.

He still got to play against real competition and it made him love and respect women's basketball more than me dragging him to games ever could. Then once he did it, his boys started. Him and his boys would beat me to the games.

3. We can deny it all we want, but playing against guys makes you a better player. I'm not talking about playing against the short pudgy kid...I mean real ball players.

The average female post player is what...6'2", 6'3"? The average male post player...even in the hood with no NBA experience...is at least 6'6".

I spent summers shooting in games against guys who were 6'4"+ and it made it easy as pie to shoot over a 5'9" female guard once the season rolled around.

The average male ball player has a higher vertical and longer wingspan...forces you to learn to protect the ball better when going up for a shot. The average male ball player is also more physical.

Playing against guys also diversifies your game. You're forced to learn to finish/rebound in traffic when everyone is bigger and stronger than you. Even if you're a post player against girls, you have to learn to handle the ball against guys because you're the size of a guard.

Also, because a male guard is a female post, a coach can easily have a male practice player guard the female point guard full court, emphasizing skill on one possession and then switch down to guarding the female center on the next, emphasizing size.

_________________
Give Kia the ball.

[PurdueBBall3]

If the NCAA was REALLY interested in equity, they would be spending much more time ensuring that more women were being hired as head coaches and ADs. Until then, I can't really take anything they say about inequity seriously. This latest meandering is just pure nonsense. It will be more than a little interesting to see how the coaches and players react to this.

[womens_hoops]

[Ballwinner]

I played NCAA DIII, which has no athletic scholarships, and there's no way we could have survived without male practice players. Our roster got down to 9 players; we couldn't have even had a scrimmage. With such a shallow bench, we also didn't want to bang up our teammates, so we could take it out against the guys. If you can hold your own against a 6'5" dude, the lane is spacious against a 5'10" woman.

This past weekend, I saw one of my old profs whose son is a practice player for a women's team in the ACC. My prof said his son was frustrated because he's 6'3" or so but only 180 lbs and the woman he guards has 50 lbs on him and just backs him down.

Does anyone know if there was a problem somewhere? This seems to be "fixing" something that was already close to perfect. The hours of a practice player are nuts, the lucky ones get practice gear at most, and the coaches won't let them run up the score. Who else is going to do this except the guys who will play pick-up anyways?

_________________
There are good ships, and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea. But the most important ships for a viable WNBA future are ownerships, and that will always be.

[hooper1]

[Michael]

[PurdueBBall3]

"This comes down to femi-nazis wanting to try and deny that men have a genetic advantage over women athletically, and you cannot do that when walk on male practice players can dominate the best women's basketball players that are in the game. There is no other logical reason for this, everything else is just smokescreen to cover for this.

Michael"


WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?!? I can't even begin to tell you how offensive the term "femi-nazis" is. What's more, your reasoning is every bit as convoluted as the NCAA's appears to be. If you actually believe that the NCAA is trying to create a "smokescreen" to prevent people from realizing that "men have a genetic advantage over women athletically," (which, by the way, is one of the most sweeping generalizations I've seen on this board) then I would suggest that your brain get out of the 50's or that you stop taking whatever pills you're on -- they're not working. Your assertion is more than a little bizarre, Michael.

[pilight]

Can we invoke Godwin's law based on the word "femi-nazi"?


The CWA is right on one point. It reduces opportunities for women.

The chance to be a practice player is available to men only. Creating participation opportunities that are only available to men is contrary to both the spirit and the letter of Title IX. Gender equity isn't being served by having more spots that are exclusively male, and it creates a further imbalance for schools trying to use proportionality as proof of compliance.

Some (perhaps most) coaches use the availability of male practice squads as an excuse to not recruit additional women. Since it isn't necessary to have sufficient players to practice internally and recruiting resources are limited, it's easier to concentrate on a smaller number of recruits and increase the likelihood of landing them. Few major conference teams are using their full allotment of scholarships for this very reason. These unused scholarships are opportunities for women beng taken by men on the practice squad.

_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home

[RubberTroll]

I thought the point of the article, which I really don't see being addressed, is that the bench players are being denied opportunities to develop because that practice time is occupied by male practice players instead of them.

In other words, remove male practice players, give more court time to the nonstarting players on your team, not replace the male practice players with female practice players.

I'm pretty sympathetic to that point of view.

[womens_hoops]

[PurdueBBall3]

[PurdueBBall3]