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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 10/01/06 8:13 am ::: Voepel: Trouble in the Little Apple. |
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http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/15649391.htm
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| At least one player, all-time leading scorer and rebounder Kendra Wecker, said Patterson and associate head coach Kamie Ethridge “degraded” her character over what Wecker believed was a minor issue and then cut her off from the program when her career ended. Others felt the coach played favorites. More than a half-dozen players and staff said they felt forced to sit through mandatory religious sessions. And miscommunication hampered the program, leading in one case to the Christmastime resignations of three team managers. |
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 10/01/06 9:34 am ::: |
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| I don't ever recall a newspaper doing this kind of in-depth story for a woman's coach.
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 9:49 am ::: |
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| Stephanie White's decision to leave her position as an asst coach at KSU for an assistant coach job at Toledo makes more sense.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 9:54 am ::: |
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| NoDakSt wrote: |
| I don't ever recall a newspaper doing this kind of in-depth story for a woman's coach. |
That's progress, of a sort.
As long they're winning, I doubt Patterson will be going anywhere.
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bballjunkee212
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 10:11 am ::: |
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Interesting reading, that and the connected "chapters." I always wondered what else was going on when KSU couldn't score for 13 minutes on their own floor and let Notre Dame slip past them. I always wondered why those players couldn't get over the hump, because when they were on, they were devastating. Turns out they had other things on their mind. As many others on this and other boards wrote, the problem was with the coach.
My general impressions from the articles:
1. Patterson doesn't do a very good job of building relationships outside a very small circle of familiars.
2. It was worse than the articles suggest. Read Wecker's comments, read what Patterson said about Wecker not receiving her B12 POY award, read what Koehn said, and read how many others don't want to comment. For those of you who haven't practiced law, it's classic divorce stuff. One person just walks away; one person feigns concern; one person denies anything bad happened; most of the rest just want to get on with their lives and not talk about it.
3. Okay, I know nothing has been reported that is as heinous as the Rene Portland affair, but let's take note of the parallels.
4. Reading the KSU media guides, I always had the impression that the KSU players were a fairly devout lot. I was interested to read that many players felt as though they were having religion imposed upon them. I wonder in how many other programs that is going on. I have often wondered that especially of UT, where the FCA appears to have been an especially strong undercurrent.
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accommodatingly
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: Saint Paul, MN
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| Posted: 10/01/06 10:22 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| NoDakSt wrote: |
| I don't ever recall a newspaper doing this kind of in-depth story for a woman's coach. |
That's progress, of a sort.
As long they're winning, I doubt Patterson will be going anywhere. |
I'm not sure they'll be winning for much longer, though. Their best years depended on two recruiting classes and three to four players (Wecker, Ohlde, Koehn, Mahoney); their limited but real success last year (down in a down year for the Big XII; winning the WNIT by playing every game at home) depended, if I remember rightly, on Twiggy MacIntyre, who isn't coming back. There's also the matter of NCAA rules violations: if there are more of those (gifts to players, for example), they could be in hot soup. (It wouldn't be the first time for K-State: that's why Agler left.) And do they have any well-heralded incoming players?
We could be looking at a somewhat competent, but limited and dogmatic, coach who won lots of games thanks to a few WNBA-quality players who wanted to stay close to home, a coach whose flaws emerge when those players leave, who can't get along with her assistants, and whose program is headed firmly downhill, despite her contract extension.
Yes, since you asked, I do live in Minnesota.
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KatValeska
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: 10/01/06 10:33 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| NoDakSt wrote: |
| I don't ever recall a newspaper doing this kind of in-depth story for a woman's coach. |
That's progress, of a sort.
As long they're winning, I doubt Patterson will be going anywhere. |
I agree on the one hand, on the other, I think it is a lot easier to write such an in-depth story when your name is Mechelle Voepel rather than Jane Whoever.
Fact is that for many journalists covering a specific sports team, asking hard questions and shining a light on unpleasant issues could lead to serious difficulties when it comes to gaining full and open access to those one needs to perform their job - such as the head coach.
I'd reckon that for those who haven't established themselves in the way that Voepel has done, asking the tough questions w/o losing genuine, full and courteous access to those one needs to do their job might well be the toughest part of their job.
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FeFi
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: 10/01/06 11:28 am ::: |
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| bballjunkee212 wrote: |
3. Okay, I know nothing has been reported that is as heinous as the Rene Portland affair, but let's take note of the parallels.
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What is really strange to me in light of this are the persistant rumors around these parts and wbb folks I know re: Patterson and Etheridge. And there is talk, of the protesting too much variety.
Anyway, I just picked up the Star this morning and haven't read the articles yet, but I am very interested in what Voepel has to say. She's been following them closely for a number of years and would, I suspect, have a nice line into what's going on. Plus, she's covered these kinds of "sensitive" issues in the past very well.
Makes me cringe if it's true..and I feel sorry for those girls - I imagine the pressure was intense. KState wbball really took off with that class and they have a very devoted fanbase (who, truth be told, would probably not be very bothered by the "faith" issues being injected into the program, thus little pressure on the school to change). I wonder what kind of impact this story will have...
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JACKOWACKO
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: 10/01/06 11:58 am ::: |
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If it was anything REALLY serious yould have heard something by now, especially from someone like Wecker. But it seems to me like its a bunch of smaller things. Power, being able to take a tongue lashing from a coach etc. They arent small issues to the player(wecker) but in the grand scheme, nothing will happen to Patterson she broke no rules and didnt do or say anything that would imply shes racist, homophobe or anything like that.
Shes just on a powertrip. Well see what that leads to.
Im sure B. Knight had players in his office giving them a piece of his mind for long stints...MANY TIMES. But then again, he won a National Championship, or 2.
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ct24fan
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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JACKOWACKO
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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eclair
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: 10/01/06 4:01 pm ::: |
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| JACKOWACKO wrote: |
| nothing will happen to Patterson she broke no rules and didnt do or say anything that would imply shes racist, homophobe or anything like that. |
No rules were broken by Patterson? Any Constitutional scholars available for a decision on this quote?
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| More than a half-dozen players and staff said they felt forced to sit through mandatory religious sessions. |
I was so hoping that we had all finally grown past the point where all that mattered in a coach was their W-L record, jackowacko.
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ct24fan
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 10/01/06 5:00 pm ::: |
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Deb may have more wins than losses, but at what cost to the players? I would be remiss to say that she hasn't accomplished anything worthwhile in her time at K-State, but the fact that she has continued to violate rules despite being called on them shows disrespect and a sense that she can get away with whatever she wants. And that her way is the only right way.
The players who are finally speaking out now have a lot more class than DP. I don't think it had anything to do with the players not being able to "handle" criticism. It was more a case of "misuse" of power.
There are plenty of folks who are VERY disappointed that her contract was extended. It makes me sick to think they would even consider letting her stay any longer.
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accommodatingly
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 8:33 pm ::: |
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Wow. Pilight: love the new avatar. (Is there a competitive congressional race where you live?)
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 9:09 pm ::: |
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| accommodatingly wrote: |
Wow. Pilight: love the new avatar. (Is there a competitive congressional race where you live?) |
Sort of. Jim Marshall is the incumbent, nominally a Democrat but supportive of all the "anti-terror" legislation. He's opposed by Mac Collins, a Republican. The polls are close, most likely because they don't disagree about anything. We have gotten many amusing attack ads.
The governor's race is the real hot contest around here.
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accommodatingly
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/01/06 10:47 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Sort of. Jim Marshall is the incumbent, nominally a Democrat but supportive of all the "anti-terror" legislation. He's opposed by Mac Collins, a Republican. The polls are close, most likely because they don't disagree about anything. |
They disagree about who should be the speaker of the House, who should control congressional committees, and who should decide what happens to a bill once it's introduced...
Back on topic: where did Twiggy MacIntyre go?
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Marquette Fan
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MaebyFunke
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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| Posted: 10/01/06 11:05 pm ::: |
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| JACKOWACKO wrote: |
She made your program |
With all due respect, Kendra Wecker made that program. And to a slightly lesser extent, so did Nicole Ohlde, Megan Mahoney and Laurie Koehn. But let's be real. Without Wecker, it's not the same program. K-State has succeeded in spite of Deb, not because of her.
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swok34
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/02/06 12:20 am ::: |
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| MaebyFunke wrote: |
| JACKOWACKO wrote: |
She made your program |
With all due respect, Kendra Wecker made that program. And to a slightly lesser extent, so did Nicole Ohlde, Megan Mahoney and Laurie Koehn. But let's be real. Without Wecker, it's not the same program. K-State has succeeded in spite of Deb, not because of her. |
I agree, MaebyFunke.
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ct24fan
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 10/02/06 6:22 am ::: |
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Twiggy is at the University of Houston.
I also agree with MaebyFunke.
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master_mora
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 10/03/06 4:21 pm ::: |
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| Kendra Wecker definetly made that program and after this article I can't imagine many girls wanting to go play for Patterson.
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JACKOWACKO
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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| Posted: 10/05/06 10:21 pm ::: |
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| The program was GOOD before Wecker was a good player
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RedEqualsLuck
Joined: 28 May 2005
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| Posted: 10/05/06 11:58 pm ::: |
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| JACKOWACKO wrote: |
| The program was GOOD before Wecker was a good player |
I'm trying to figure out if there's any logic behing your statement. When, in your eyes, did Wecker become a good player? 'cause this is DP's record before Wecker:
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3101&SPID=214&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=20597&Q_SEASON=2006
2000-01 Kansas State 12-16
1999-00 Kansas State 13-17
1998-99 Kansas State 16-14 WNIT Second Round
1997-98 Kansas State 11-17
1996-97 Kansas State 19-12 NCAA First Round
Doing the maths I come up with a 71-76 record
And this is after Wecker arrived
2004-05 Kansas State 24-8 NCAA Second Round
2003-04 Kansas State 25-6 NCAA Second Round/
Big 12 Champions
2002-03 Kansas State 29-5 NCAA Second Round/
Preseason WNIT Champions
2001-02 Kansas State 26-8 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Which, doing my maths, comes to 104-27
and wasn't Wecker named Big 12 POY in 05 and all Big 12 First Team 03,04 and 05.... not that I'm suggesting that she did it on her own, but I am trying to figure out what you mean by your statement....
Or are you saying KState was good BEFORE Wecker (et al) arrived? But, when I look at the records, suggests you're being true to your posting name....
Could you possibly be talking Pre-DP era? wacko, could you try and clarify your statement?
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