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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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 Posted: 04/06/24 11:27 pm ::: Dawn Says Let Trans Women Play Against Bio Women |
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| Now, I’m not sure if any reporters will bother to ask the current crop of Women’s Final Four coaches – Auriemma, Lisa Bluder of Iowa, Dawn Staley of South Carolina and Wes Moore of North Carolina State - about biological men competing in women’s sports. But, if that did happen, I’d be curious if the coaches would even answer. |
https://www.outkick.com/sports/womens-final-four-coaches-billie-jean-king-standing-up-female-athletes
| Quote: |
| "I'm of the opinion that if you're a woman, you should play," Staley said. "If you consider yourself a woman and you want to play sports, or vice versa, you should be able to play. You want me to go deeper?" |
https://www.outkick.com/sports/dawn-staley-trangender-women-sports
Oh yeah, this one gets to stay here because there is no question that it is related to basketball!!!!!
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Last edited by Ex-Ref on 04/07/24 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/07/24 6:47 am ::: Re: She Got Her Answer...Sort Of |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Now, I’m not sure if any reporters will bother to ask the current crop of Women’s Final Four coaches – Auriemma, Lisa Bluder of Iowa, Dawn Staley of South Carolina and Wes Moore of North Carolina State - about biological men competing in women’s sports. But, if that did happen, I’d be curious if the coaches would even answer. |
https://www.outkick.com/sports/womens-final-four-coaches-billie-jean-king-standing-up-female-athletes
| Quote: |
| "I'm of the opinion that if you're a woman, you should play," Staley said. "If you consider yourself a woman and you want to play sports, or vice versa, you should be able to play. You want me to go deeper?" |
https://www.outkick.com/sports/dawn-staley-trangender-women-sports
Oh yeah, this one gets to stay here because there is no question that it is related to basketball!!!!! |
Kudos to Dawn for speaking her truth. Kudos to Lisa for politely side stepping the question in deference to this exciting matchup.
Let's play ball!.
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Ex-Ref
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 04/07/24 6:38 pm ::: |
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speaking "her" truth does not make it true...
the truth is women are women and men are men.....you can not change dna...you can cut, and sew on, and give chemicals, but dna is dna...
.
but ...."speaking the truth in the time of universal deceit is revolutionary"....
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bio males should never be allowed to compete for scholarships, awards, sponsorships, championships, etc against women...
but go ahead with this insanity...
pretend you really care about girls and women....
it's just another nail in the coffins for women's sports....
don't even pretend you little girl should be competitive in sports because she will get to be a senior in hs and will loose out some bio male pretending...
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 04/07/24 6:39 pm ::: |
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speaking "her" truth does not make it true...
the truth is women are women and men are men.....you can not change dna...you can cut, and sew on, and give chemicals, but dna is dna...
.
but ...."speaking the truth in the time of universal deceit is revolutionary"....
.
bio males should never be allowed to compete for scholarships, awards, sponsorships, championships, etc against women...
but go ahead with this insanity...
pretend you really care about girls and women....
it's just another nail in the coffins for women's sports....
don't even pretend you little girl should be competitive in sports because she will get to be a senior in hs and will loose out some bio male pretending...
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 04/07/24 7:43 pm ::: |
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| elsie wrote: |
speaking "her" truth does not make it true...
the truth is women are women and men are men.....you can not change dna...you can cut, and sew on, and give chemicals, but dna is dna...
.
but ...."speaking the truth in the time of universal deceit is revolutionary"....
.
bio males should never be allowed to compete for scholarships, awards, sponsorships, championships, etc against women...
but go ahead with this insanity...
pretend you really care about girls and women....
it's just another nail in the coffins for women's sports....
don't even pretend you little girl should be competitive in sports because she will get to be a senior in hs and will loose out some bio male pretending... |
Are you back again? Didn't the last thrashing hurt enough?
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 04/07/24 9:32 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
speaking "her" truth does not make it true...
the truth is women are women and men are men.....you can not change dna...you can cut, and sew on, and give chemicals, but dna is dna...
.
but ...."speaking the truth in the time of universal deceit is revolutionary"....
.
bio males should never be allowed to compete for scholarships, awards, sponsorships, championships, etc against women...
but go ahead with this insanity...
pretend you really care about girls and women....
it's just another nail in the coffins for women's sports....
don't even pretend you little girl should be competitive in sports because she will get to be a senior in hs and will loose out some bio male pretending... |
Are you back again? Didn't the last thrashing hurt enough? |
You mean in this thread?? The one that people ran away from because they couldn't stand the heat? Instead of getting out of the kitchen, they had the kitchen moved to the "other" side of town???? You know, the side of town that no one goes to if they don't have to? The thread that never should have been moved in the first place?
https://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=103183&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100
The ostrich approach isn't going to work on this issue. This is something that needs to be addressed and a solution worked out. It isn't going to go away, just because you want it to. The way I see it, you can come to the table and help work on a solution that works for everyone, or you can run away, and then shut the fuck up when you don't like the solution that others came up with.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 04/07/24 11:26 pm ::: |
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This article details a case of a basketball team asking their coaches to forfeit a game back in February, because several of them were injured, some of them by an opposing team's trans player. Down to 5 players, they feared further injury and missing playoffs.
THAT trans player did NOT belong in that game, in that league - IMO. I told y'all in the LAST thread of this ilk - basketball will not be immune to damages from this controversy.
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 04/08/24 6:25 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
This article details a case of a basketball team asking their coaches to forfeit a game back in February, because several of them were injured, some of them by an opposing team's trans player. Down to 5 players, they feared further injury and missing playoffs.
THAT trans player did NOT belong in that game, in that league - IMO. I told y'all in the LAST thread of this ilk - basketball will not be immune to damages from this controversy. |
You mean this thread?
https://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=103183&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/08/24 11:26 am ::: |
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| I have NO problem with trans players who began puberty blockers/hormone therapy at a relatively early age, say, before 15. They are not going to have the muscle mass etc. that someone who started much later will. Some female players have much more muscle mass than that! Perhaps we ought to go with that instead? Because there are some damn big female players who can injure other female players with no trouble at all. We've seen that.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 04/08/24 11:26 am ::: |
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| Duplicate post, sorry.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 04/08/24 1:23 pm ::: |
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Posters are demanding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. For several years people have claimed that transgendered athletes are ruining womens sports but the number of examples they cite are a tiny drop in the bucket.
They claim that trans athletes dominate but there are many many more bio females that dominate girls' sports. If a bio female wins 6 track events no one says it isn't fair to the lesser athletes. No, instead they celebrate her dominance. But let a trans athlete win 3 events and suddenly there is a threat to competition? They say that HS males will undergo gender surgery and dangerous hormone therapy so that they can win a few high school athletic events? That is insanity. Why aren't those same people calling for a crackdown on males taking PED's to get college football scholarships? Is that fair?
IMO most of the uproar is coming from people who have no knowledge of the issues, both psychological and physical , involved in the transgendering process.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/08/24 1:54 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| They say that HS males will undergo gender surgery and dangerous hormone therapy so that they can win a few high school athletic events? That is insanity. |
The greater concern is that they'll claim to "identify" as female and be allowed to compete against girls.
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so-many-pickles
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| Posted: 04/08/24 2:26 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
Posters are demanding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. For several years people have claimed that transgendered athletes are ruining womens sports but the number of examples they cite are a tiny drop in the bucket.
They claim that trans athletes dominate but there are many many more bio females that dominate girls' sports. If a bio female wins 6 track events no one says it isn't fair to the lesser athletes. No, instead they celebrate her dominance. But let a trans athlete win 3 events and suddenly there is a threat to competition? They say that HS males will undergo gender surgery and dangerous hormone therapy so that they can win a few high school athletic events? That is insanity. Why aren't those same people calling for a crackdown on males taking PED's to get college football scholarships? Is that fair?
IMO most of the uproar is coming from people who have no knowledge of the issues, both psychological and physical , involved in the transgendering process. |
The reason sports are segregated by sex is because of the difference between male and female bodies - not some nebulous difference in "gender identity." Every single male body that participates in girls'/women's sports displaces a girl/woman and corrupts the very purpose of sex-segregated sports. (This is true with other sex-segregated programs and opportunities as well.)
The modern transgender movement is 100% grounded in misogynistic stereotypes. It is an affirmation that these stereotypes represent actual characteristics of women. Trans women were raised with male privilege and the associated male sense of entitlement. Women accommodate it because we are socialized to defer to the needs of others.
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Queenie
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| Posted: 04/08/24 5:09 pm ::: |
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| The only opinions of mine that shrilly demanding we discuss this topic induces are about the other posters in it, and usually not for the better.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 04/08/24 10:59 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Posters are demanding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist..... IMO most of the uproar is coming from people who have no knowledge of the issues, both psychological and physical , involved in the transgendering process. |
Did you, by chance, read the article I linked in my post? The injured players are not gonna agree that this problem "doesn't exist", and I doubt their limited knowledge of transgender issues plays into their perspective on the topic.
| so-many-pickles wrote: |
| The modern transgender movement is 100% grounded in misogynistic stereotypes. It is an affirmation that these stereotypes represent actual characteristics of women. Trans women were raised with male privilege and the associated male sense of entitlement. Women accommodate it because we are socialized to defer to the needs of others. |
Can you clarify your point? I'm not sure I understand....
| Queenie wrote: |
| The only opinions of mine that shrilly demanding we discuss this topic induces are about the other posters in it, and usually not for the better. |
Funny. *I* didn't hear any shrillness at all. It seems your preference is that this NOT be discussed here, but....why not? (presuming civility reigns)
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 04/09/24 8:46 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| The only opinions of mine that shrilly demanding we discuss this topic induces are about the other posters in it, and usually not for the better. |
No different than the shrill demands that it not be discussed here, and that the initial thread be moved to 51 because it wasn't about women's basketball even though it clearly was.
Guess I just don't like it when voices are silenced in in America. When the notion of "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm going to prevent you from saying it." Or in this case, "I'm going to prevent others from seeing it."
It's bull shit and needs to be called out.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 04/09/24 11:15 am ::: |
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Speaking as someone who used to be a volunteer crisis line counselor at The Trevor Project-- a hotline for gay and trans youth with suicidal ideation-- I think there are some well-meaning folks in this conversation who don't realize how much harm they do when they scapegoat and other-ize transgender people... and especially transgender youth (such as the transgender child referenced in the linked article upthread). Trans youth represent the most vulnerable and at-risk population we have in this nation. And the difference for them between being accepted for the gender with which they identify, and not being accepted, is often literally the difference between life and death. Not hypothetically, maybe, someday in the future. Now, today, per actual existing data.
I'm not naive enough to think that the above will change the minds of 99.9% of the people browsing through here whose minds are already made up. But maybe that .1% person who reads this might think twice about whether or not his/her hot take on this issue is truly worth the sometimes-fatal harm said take can inflict on others.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 04/09/24 11:36 am ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
Speaking as someone who used to be a volunteer crisis line counselor at The Trevor Project-- a hotline for gay and trans youth with suicidal ideation-- I think there are some well-meaning folks in this conversation who don't realize how much harm they do when they scapegoat and other-ize transgender people... and especially transgender youth (such as the transgender child referenced in the linked article upthread). Trans youth represent the most vulnerable and at-risk population we have in this nation. And the difference for them between being accepted for the gender with which they identify, and not being accepted, is often literally the difference between life and death. Not hypothetically, maybe, someday in the future. Now, today, per actual existing data.
I'm not naive enough to think that the above will change the minds of 99.9% of the people browsing through here whose minds are already made up. But maybe that .1% person who reads this might think twice about whether or not his/her hot take on this issue is truly worth the sometimes-fatal harm said take can inflict on others. |
I believe everything you've stated here.
But how/why do you and I come to differ on whether or not a trans m-to-f with a significant size advantage ought to be allowed to compete with bio females in contact sports? The mental well-being of the trans community is important. Just as important is the physical well-bing of bio girls in sports.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 04/09/24 12:04 pm ::: |
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| Howee, are you not going to concede that someone like Tamari Key or Kamilla Cardoso does not have a significant size advantage over the other women on the court? If they wanted, they could also do some pretty significant damage to smaller women. So, for that matter, could someone the size of Audi Crooks, if you'll forgive me for saying so. What's the difference?
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snichols
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jmh1982
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| Posted: 04/09/24 3:48 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Howee, are you not going to concede that someone like Tamari Key or Kamilla Cardoso does not have a significant size advantage over the other women on the court? If they wanted, they could also do some pretty significant damage to smaller women. So, for that matter, could someone the size of Audi Crooks, if you'll forgive me for saying so. What's the difference? |
This is a poor argument because when a woman has a huge size advantage she will fall behind in other areas. Cardoso is bigger than most other women in basketball, but is also quite a bit slower and less explosive athletically than the smaller women. The difference is that a bio male will not only be much bigger, but also way stronger and way more athletic. It's the combination of all of these things that make them significantly more dangerous to bio females.
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PG4ever
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| Posted: 04/09/24 5:33 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Congratulations on the win today Dawn. Now to call yourselves NCAA champs and take that trophy home, you have to play the winner of tomorrow's game between UConn and Purdue.
Sounds fair to me.  |
Only if the UConn and Purdue players identify as women. 
Seriously, though, I know this is a black and white issue for many. On one end, it's no transgender girls/women period on teams with girls/women born female and for others it's let trans girls/women compete on any team, any sport, any time. For me, it's more complicated depending on the age, the sport, hormones, where the person is in their transition, the stakes, etc. For example, six year olds in rec league where all the children get to play, I'd have no objection against trans girls playing on the girls teams. Now, if we're looking at a trans woman who has gone through puberty and played a year of college basketball on a men's team before transitioning, I would object to her playing on a women's college team (no matter if she was a superstar or a "scrub" at the end of the bench on the men's level). One thing I wish people (in general) would remember is that you don't have to attack or dehumanize trans folks even if it's your opinion that trans women shouldn't be allowed to play on women's teams.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/09/24 7:59 pm ::: |
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| snichols wrote: |
| https://www.cces.ca/transgender-women-athletes-and-elite-sport-scientific-review |
Thanks very much for that link. Unfortunately though not surprisingly, one of the key takeaways is that the existing literature is exceedingly sparse and/or methodologically flawed
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