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Richard 77 · Posted: 04/05/24 11:33 pm :::

I managed to watch the play on X, followed by the comments for and against the foul call. Despite the conspiracy theories that abound on X and the final outcome, the refs would be screwed and lambasted either way. Make the call and Iowa wins, one set of fans and basketball purists will always say the call shouldn't have been made. Let the players decide. If the ref doesn't make the call and UConn wins, the other set of basketball purists and fans will scream bloody murder that the ref didn't call what those fans saw as a clear foul.

Nope. The final outcome didn't matter for the refs. This was their version of the Kobayashi Maru. For them, in that moment in time, it became a no-win situation.

The NCAA will review this play and agree with the call or not, they will ultimately decide what should be done should this instance occur again.

_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek

eyevolley4 · Posted: 04/05/24 11:52 pm :::

I’m disappointed that the moving screen call existed as what is now the most famous moment of a game that really was an excellent Final Four battle.

I believe that Aaliyah’s arms and leaning in put the ref in a situation where they had to decide to make the call or not. Like players who have to make split second decisions and actions, the refs are required to make a decision and an action. I think technically yes it was a foul. I sure would have liked to see Paige take that shot. I didn’t think she would make it - it didn’t look like the play was rolling out quite right - but boy, I just would prefer to see it and either be proven right or wrong.

Masked by the call was Iowa’s surge. The first half defensive story getting flipped on its head with Caitlin clawing back while Paige struggled for a stretch due to great defense.

Great basketball from the role players - Muhl, Martin, Affolter, KK. Great adjustments from the coaches.

I do think we are left with a slight edge for Clark in terms of overall performance over Paige. She had a really tough first half and somehow still scored over 20 and pitched in rebounds and assists to end with a really respectable line.

Unfortunately, there’s no true winner of this Caitlin/Paige matchup due to the style of ending. Fortunately, the bulk of that game was entertaining, tense, and everything you look for in a Final Four.

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Ex-Ref · Posted: 04/06/24 12:06 am :::

Just gonna re-post this here from the general page.

This whole notion of "let the players decide the game, not the refs" is a huge, stinking pile of BS.

Why should an illegal screen by Edwards be allowed to possibly decide the game?? If we're going to allow one team to not play by the rules, why play the game???

_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.

Ex-Ref · Posted: 04/06/24 12:22 am :::

The refs can't call EVERYTHING. The game would go on for HOURS (and UConn would have run out of players and would have had to forfeit anyway.) They have to decide advantage/disadvantage.

Were there moving screens that didn't get called earlier?? I'm sure that there were.

This one only looks bad because of timing of it. There was a ball out of bounds on the baseline in the second half that they called Iowa ball. On replay, it sure looked like the Iowa player (I can't remember which on) touched it last. Didn't hear a word about that call.

Maybe instead of bitching about and faulting one call, yall maybe need to be bitching about and faulting UConn for not getting the rebound on the Clark missed free throw? Or maybe saying what a head's up play that was for Clark to throw the ball off of the UConn player's leg that allowed for .3 of a second to run off of the clock? Or the upward heave of the ball that didn't allow UConn to get a play on it the final play of the game?

_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.

Howee · Posted: 04/06/24 12:38 am :::

Luuuc · #NATC

That screen wasn't remotely close to being legal. If relying on refs to overlook a clear foul is the best you have, then you didn't deserve the W.
I like Glenn's call of fouling being a significant factor in the result. Iowa were very disciplined all game. UConn weren't.

_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.

Conway Gamecock · Posted: 04/06/24 1:29 am :::

For those who might not have seen the screen, here is it again:

https://twitter.com/DavidEickholt/status/1776459189457473832

I have never agreed with the "let the players decide the outcome" notion - mostly espoused by fans of the winning team who fouled at the close of a tight game that they benefited from, and got away with it.

There are rules in the game of basketball, and there has NEVER been any rule in existence to "let the players decide the outcome", to the extent that if they can foul in that final moment, then so be it.

Whether it was the kicked ball in the South Carolina Final Four against Stanford, or the arm-bar contact against Aliyah Boston's final layup attempts in the overtime loss to CT, a foul has ALWAYS supposed to be a foul in the proper game of basketball, and the only time that is not the case is when the game clock is at all zeros. It is the officials' sole responsibility to call the fouls when they occur, and IF THAT RUINS GAMES FOR THE FOULING TEAM, THEN DO. NOT. FOUL.

That is no different than missing an easy layup, turning the ball over, calling a timeout that does not exist, etc. It's not the officials fault for the team making mistakes.

Connecticut has been infamous with their moving screens for years, if not decades. It's a vital part of Auriemma's motion offenses - not saying that he and his staff deliberately coach their players to execute illegal moving screens, but perhaps their offense is so fast that players TRY to perform screens properly, and still mess them up.

Once upon a time, they didn't get called so much. But you run a particular style of offense for years and years, eventually the officials start to learn what those things are, and recognize them in games. In South Carolina's first win over CT in Colonial Life Arena in the 2019-20 season, ONO got called for a number of critical illegal moving screens, and there have been more of those called in the USC-CT series over recent seasons than I could count.

In the linked twitter video, it was a blatant illegal moving screen. Edwards didn't just lean into the Iowa player, stick out her elbow or knees, or hip like she has been called for in past games. She was moving so much, her feet were sliding laterally when the contact was made. That is elementary violation for even blocking fouls against a driving player with the ball, so why shouldn't it be called in this instance? Not sure what the fuss is all about.....

tfan · Posted: 04/06/24 6:53 am :::

tfan · Posted: 04/06/24 6:57 am :::

boogiezen · Posted: 04/06/24 7:05 am :::

Shout out to Hannah Stuelke, Sydney Affolter, Kate Martin and Gabbie Marshall who did fantastic on Paige. They are never going to have a chance to play in the WNBA made the difference, made impact plays for Iowa to win and really helped Clark to breathe.

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tfan · Posted: 04/06/24 7:17 am :::

When I play it at 25% speed I see Edwards have multiple positions with her feet moving quickly. At one point both feet are touching the ground, with the left, a foot or a foot and a half from the three point line, and Gabby Marshall
close to her. Then she moves her left foot to the three point line leaving a very wide stance. But she quickly moves the right foot closer to narrow her stance. It's hard to tell if Marshall is contacting her when Edwards' right foot moves to narrow her stance. But Edwards moved her feet very close to the time of contact. The problem was probably the distance they had moved was above a normal moving-screen threshold.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rPMV35Q9n5Y?si=bRpd7AOPpbFHkH-f" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

wnbafan · Posted: 04/06/24 7:24 am :::

pilight · Posted: 04/06/24 7:50 am :::

GlennMacGrady · Posted: 04/06/24 9:49 am :::

The precursor problem for UConn with the last 9 second play was not the moving screen call on Edwards, about the correctness of which I am agnostic. The causal problem was the unnecessarily complex, multi-pass action way over on the error-prone and player-trapping sideline called by Geno.

Edwards takes it out and passes inbounds to Muhl, who dribbles up court and passes it to Bueckers way over on the sideline. Bueckers is covered has no shot there. So she she passes it back to Muhl, who drives almost into the corner, is easily covered and has no shot and is trapped. Meanwhile, Bueckers curls around screen by Edwards and goes to the top of the key, where she has no shot or chance of getting a pass because Muhl is trapped in the corner. So, then Bueckers reverses direction, curls in the other direction around another (illegal) screen by Edwards just to salvage a pass back from Muhl. Bueckers gets the ball back way over at the sideline, closely guarded, with no good shot available from 24 feet and 3.9 seconds left. But meanwhile the screening foul has been called.

All this action was much too complex, had too many moving parts, resulted in no open shot for anyone on UConn, and was a dumb call by Geno.

Geno just should have put the ball in Paige's hand with the inbound and let her go to work in the center of the court for a simple drive off a ball screen for a layup attempt or a pass to a cutter for a layup attempt. Just as Bluder would have done with Caitlin Clark.

Live or die with a play by your preeminent star in the open floor, not some jury-rig, multiple-pass play way over by the sideline where there is no room for error.

I call disordered entropy on Geno, not Edwards or the refs.

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Ex-Ref · Posted: 04/06/24 10:29 am :::

Here's the clip that you need to watch. Contact would have been OK if Edwards had established a legal guarding position. Even if Edwards was still moving when the contact had occurred. But she hadn't, so the contact was a foul. Correctly called.

https://twitter.com/IowaSportsGuy1/status/1776467266797785500

_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.

Jmsdawg · Posted: 04/06/24 11:33 am :::

My take, replay clearly shows the moving screen call was correct. As for a foul being a deciding factors, referees are part of the game and I saw nothing unusual with the officiating during this game.

Jmsdawg · Posted: 04/06/24 11:33 am :::

My take, replay clearly shows the moving screen call was correct. As for a foul being a deciding factors, referees are part of the game and I saw nothing unusual with the officiating during this game.

singinerd54 · Posted: 04/06/24 11:38 am :::

It's sad for any sport when the narrative following a highly competitive/close game is about the officials. In this thread, in the media, that's what's being predominantly discussed. Reminds me of the 2023 Super Bowl between the Chiefs and Eagles.

Speebs56 · Posted: 04/06/24 12:14 pm :::

You know what, y'all? It was a great game! We should hope that the final is as exciting as the semi-final. Close, competitive game with plenty of nail-biting for both teams' fans.

I love UConn and am heartbroken for them to come so close after such a injury-laden season. But great for Iowa to get another shot at the title.

There's next year, Huskie fans -- and along with healthy players who were sorely missed this season -- we will have Sarah Strong, who today committed to UConn.

Enjoy the title game everyone!

Conway Gamecock · Posted: 04/06/24 12:52 pm :::

Michael · Posted: 04/06/24 1:27 pm :::

summertime blues · Posted: 04/06/24 3:00 pm :::

Gotta hand it to UConn. For a team with a short bench to get as far as they did speaks well for bot the players and the coaching. So let's see what happens next year when a few of them are gone, some new ones come in, and (hopefully) some of the others are healthy. Will we see them right back here again? Tale to be told next year.

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Ex-Ref · Posted: 04/06/24 3:09 pm :::

snichols · Posted: 04/06/24 7:13 pm :::

Were moving screens and fouls missed earlier in the game? Of course; it was a physical, fast game, and it’s hard to see everything. Was Edward’s screen a legal screen? Nope. Should it have been called at that point in the game? Absolutely. If you see it, you should call it.

Would it have been called in the men’s game? What difference does that make? They aren’t even playing by the same rules.

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