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eibln
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 Posted: 04/08/24 12:33 am ::: |
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| Multiple posts sorry
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eibln
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:34 am ::: |
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eibln
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:34 am ::: |
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| Ugh
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eibln
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:35 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
You think saying everything twice is going to make it sound better?
Look, JMU is IN the SBC. While it is a step up from the morass of a conference JMU was in, it is still very much a mid-major conference. Caldwell has absolutely NO experience to back her up. She was at Glenville State, a D-II school in WV, before Marshall. That's it. She is in no way ready for the SEC. She has never faced coaches like Dawn or Kim or even Coach Yo or Kristy Curry. I do not foresee a good season for the Lady Vols at all. Of course she might bring the Hayes sisters with her, which would be a huge laugh, seeing as how their big sister was kicked off the team by Holly Warlick. Not sure their stage daddy would like that at all. |
I mean you are basically saying the same thing too so…..
She has experience just not against the people you’d like her to have experience against. She beat Florida this year, which might be the best win of the year for her. She has never missed a tournament in her career. Not to mention, she has outstanding support and recommendations. Almost everyone I have talked to, and a lot of analysts across the game support the hire. And I believe there will be less of an emotional burden by hiring Caldwell, someone outside the family. I have also been analyzing coaches, the hot seat, and coaching carousels for a while, usually I’m pretty accurate. Yes Caldwell was not one I expected but going through her history and abilities, she should be okay. Not to mention, White has been doing this much longer than you probably have, and has more inside information than you do. White also has a reputation for doing his due diligence and making solid hires. I do however agree that this is an out of the box, kinda unorthodox approach to the coaching search. I will agree I expected a big name to come out of it, not someone with little D1 coaching experience, but I really do like the hire. I have not followed Caldwell’s career as long as I have Robyn Fralick’s career but just looking through things, I see a lot of similarities. Fralick did a fantastic job in her first year at MSU, granted she has a few more years at BGSU, than Caldwell at Marshall but Caldwell was able to get to the tournament and win a conference championship. Both have D2 championships, and spent a lot of time there. It’s much easier to build teams and put together solid teams in your first couple years. Caldwell is expected to hit the portal hard, not to mention Tennessee helps recruit itself which should do well for her. Harper did okay with the portal but her teams also struggled to stay health every year and she didn’t have fantastic bench players. I have hope for Caldwell. I’m already hearing great things from recruits and coaches. We will see what kind of stay she puts together, which will be a key to success.
Next time instead of bashing the hire, try to find good. The only bad thing I have found so far is she doesn’t quite have as much D1 experience as others. Otherwise the resume is solid. If she does well I can only imagine what you will say. I am optimistic that things will be okay. If not, as I said, you can say I told you so.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/08/24 11:37 am ::: |
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| She has ONE year of D-I experience. ONE. ONE. And beating Florida, which is pretty close to the basement of the SEC, hardly counts. She lost to UVA by something like 50 points, and UVA is hardly the cream of the ACC. She is way too inexperienced to lead Tennessee anywhere. I suspect White got turned town by every premium coach he asked and was left here. Or he was so dazzled by the Maggie Dixon award that he forgot to look at anything else. Or she came really cheap. $750K is a lot cheaper than what he was paying Kellie. In any case, I expect a nosedive for UT. I'll be surprised if there's anything else.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:06 pm ::: |
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1. It’s definitely a risk
2. Can she recruit at the SEC level?
3. She’s definitely a winner
4. Her style of play sounds exciting and fun to watch
5. She would have guarded the out of bounds play and all players on the floor in the SEC semi finals against South Carolina with 1 second left
6. I’m excited and eager to see this next chapter in Lady Vols basketball
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:21 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| 2. Can she recruit at the SEC level? |
This is the main question. If she can identify and attract top level talent then she'll be successful.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/08/24 12:28 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| 2. Can she recruit at the SEC level? |
This is the main question. If she can identify and attract top level talent then she'll be successful. |
Whether she can recruit or not may be important, but even more important is that she get the right assistant who definitely CAN recruit. I see that in many programs - the HC gets the credit but really the difference is the right assistant.
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thardy929
Joined: 04 May 2016
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| Posted: 04/08/24 2:59 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| 2. Can she recruit at the SEC level? |
This is the main question. If she can identify and attract top level talent then she'll be successful. |
Whether she can recruit or not may be important, but even more important is that she get the right assistant who definitely CAN recruit. I see that in many programs - the HC gets the credit but really the difference is the right assistant. |
100%. I kind of hope they keep Coach Sam though I guess I'd be surprised. She seemed to be very good at getting the top recruits on campus and getting Tennessee in a lot of players' top 3-5.
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snzuluz
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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| Posted: 04/08/24 3:13 pm ::: |
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Let’s see, the basketball court, the number of quarters, the number of fouls allowed in each quarter, the size of the basketball, and the number of referees on the court in a game are exactly the same whether you’re playing D1 women’s basketball down to NJCAA games.
The coach doesn’t make the layup, does it make the free-throw, can’t make on court decisions, box out and secure a rebound, does not make the turnovers, and does not miss the bunny shots. Doesn’t matter what level of basketball you coach, it’s the athletes on the court that create the final score.
Sometimes, head coaches get way too much credit for their teams winning. The difference is the caliber of recruits that you can get to come to your institution. Assistant coaches do most of that work. Assistant coaches are the ones creating the scouting report.
The new Tennessee coach has to hire the right assistant coaches and recruiting coordinator. Tennessee was so successful under Pat for so long was because N Moss was one of the top recruiters in the nation. The athleticism and quality of athlete will be much greater than what the new coach has been able to bring into her programs before…that’s one of the only difference then where she’s been coaching prior to being appointed the Tenn head coach.
People get so hung up about where coaches have coached before when they take over a big-time program like Tennessee. Time will tell if she can bring in the right recruits to compete in the SEC, but just because she hasn’t coached at a major D1 college, doesn’t mean she won’t be successful in her X’s & O’s during a game. You don’t automatically get smarter or dumber as an in game coach because you’re moving up a level to a power five conference.
Anyone can shoot a basket, make a free-throw, and rebound. It’s what you are doing with your athletes between their ears, teaching all of them to be a coach on the floor, and how you treat them emotionally… this make anyone a successful coach on any level.
Teaching time and score and situational play is a must in today’s game… that doesn’t just apply to a D1 power five conference. Last night was a classic example. Iowa got the game down to six points in the fourth quarter, and Clark came down and shot two long range three-pointers that did not go in and we’re not close to going in. South Carolina got the rebound each time and went down and scored at the other end. The disappointing fact was Clark took those shots with lots of time on the shot clock and she didn’t really bother to try and look for one of her teammates or work for a better team shot. The next play down, she had a turnover which was converted into another two points thus moving South Carolina ahead again by 12 points.
When they got it down within six points taking time to look for a good shot to narrow it to four points and possibly the next possession down to two points turn quickly back to a 12 point. That’s the side of the game in which coaches can get their athletes to understand and implement 100% of the time, not just selected times make them outstanding coaches. I’ll bet the new Tennessee coach knows that and does that with her current team even though it’s not a power five conference school.
Summit used to say: offense sells tickets, defense wins games, and rebounding wins championships! That rang true last night!
Iowa struggles with their defense and it has done so for many years. Last year they beat South Carolina with Cardoso and Boston in the lineup. Height wise Iowa was about the same this year as last year. Boxing out means to put your “butt into a gut”. Iowa did that in the first quarter when I took a big lead and (but they missed for 2 foot shots during that time span thus leading to eat more points they could’ve had) then after that they went back into just simply trying to jump South Carolina.
Does that make Bluder a bad coach? Remember, when she took over the job at Iowa, she had only been at a D1 mid Major at Drake University.
It really isn’t a level that you’re coming from as a head coach, but it’s where you take that program especially moving into a power five conference. A team is only as good as their bench players…and the head coach is only as good as her assistant coaches and recruiting coordinator. It was nice to see Dawn last night acknowledge her assistant who created the scouting report on Iowa. Most coaches would’ve never done that after winning the national championship.
Tennessee, has gone outside their “internal family” for this new coach. Instead of judging where she’s coming from because she hasn’t been in D1 very long or at a power five conference, fans and people need to look at whether the programs moving forward under their new hire. It takes most programs 3 to 5 years to turn the corner.
Kelly Harper had started at mid major, went to NC State and was fired from there, gets hired at Tennessee because she’s part of the “family” and her coaching ability wasn’t any better there than it was at NC State. She didn’t get the top of the athletes who can compete day in and day out with the cream of the crop in the SEC. People forget that Summit used to have a team of almost all McDonald’s All Americans. then the torch was passed to Geno who had at least 10 players who are McDonald’s All Americans. Staley has now taken on that torch with 10 players who could all start on other power five teams. Cardoso last year came off the bench.
Some people are meant to be power five conference coaches, some are meant to be mid Major coaches, and some are meant to be assistant coaches and not head coaches. I think Harper showed people after more than one stop at a power five conference, she is not a power five head coach. Not so much of what happens on the court and her game management (except for not covering Cardoso in the SEC championship game) but her lack of recruiting great athletes. Again, she didn’t bring in one recruit in the class of
2023.
3 to 5 years from now, if the new Tennessee coach hasn’t move the program forward, won SEC championships, or gone further than what Harper did in her years, then they’ll be looking for a new coach. But to say she’s not the right candidate just because she hasn’t coached in a power five conference, seems silly.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/08/24 4:10 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| 2. Can she recruit at the SEC level? |
This is the main question. If she can identify and attract top level talent then she'll be successful. |
It's basically the only question if Tennessee still thinks they can compete at the top of the sport on a regular basis. And recruit will mean high school students and from the portal.
Maybe she will be brilliant at it. But the simple fact is that Caldwell has never been involved with the kinds of players she will need to recruit to be competitive at Tennessee. The gap between the recruiting she has been doing and what she will have to do might as well not even be called the same thing.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/08/24 4:20 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| 2. Can she recruit at the SEC level? |
This is the main question. If she can identify and attract top level talent then she'll be successful. |
It's basically the only question if Tennessee still thinks they can compete at the top of the sport on a regular basis. And recruit will mean high school students and from the portal.
Maybe she will be brilliant at it. But the simple fact is that Caldwell has never been involved with the kinds of players she will need to recruit to be competitive at Tennessee. The gap between the recruiting she has been doing and what she will have to do might as well not even be called the same thing. |
Exactly. People complaining that "Kellie couldn't recruit" were only looking at the HS recruits. They didn't even consider the portal, which netted them players like Rickea Jackson and Jewel Spear.
I am not at all sure that Kim Caldwell has idea one about recruiting at this level, whether in the portal or at the HS level. She'd better do some fast hiring and not just drag along the assistants she feels comfortable with. And I'm not sure that top players in the portal are going to want to play for a coach who is untried at this level, either.
Fasten your seatbelts, Lady Vol fans. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/08/24 4:41 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| It's basically the only question if Tennessee still thinks they can compete at the top of the sport on a regular basis. |
If they didn't think that they would have stuck with Harper.
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snichols
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
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| Posted: 04/08/24 9:31 pm ::: |
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I have no idea whether Caldwell will be successful. Scott Rueck came into a dumpster fire situation at Oregon State with no D1 experience, and has been very successful. But he also had the connections in the area to recruit (and had Mark Campbell on his staff in the beginning, who is an amazing recruiter.)
There’s a big difference between Marshall, where there are no expectations, and Tennessee, where the expectations are probably out of line with reality. It is not a situation set up for success.
I saw someone try to compare this hire to Staley at South Carolina, but that’s ridiculous. Staley had coached at Temple for 8 seasons before taking the SC job, where she regularly won 20+ games and went to the tournament. It then took her until her sixth season to win the SEC, her seventh season at SC to make it to the Final Four, and her ninth to win the championship. Will Tennessee fans be patient for that kind of process? Kelly Harper didn’t get that kind of time.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/08/24 11:11 pm ::: |
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The Staley comparison is not completely baseless. She had more experience, true. However, Staley's not from the south and had never coached in the south. All of her coaching experience was in her hometown. She'd never been past the S16 and had only gotten that far once. She was really young, about the same age Caldwell is now.
As for Staley taking six seasons to win the SEC and so on, note that her record (both overall and in conference) improved every year for the first eight seasons she was there. If Caldwell makes tangible progress like that, Tennessee will be satisfied.
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tfan
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| Posted: 04/09/24 3:38 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Top level recruiting is national, or international, these days.
Look at South Carolina, the undefeated #1 team. Most of their starters are not Southern. None of UConn's starters are from New England. |
Which is why it is so notable that Caitlin Clark took a bunch of mid westerners to the finals twice.
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eibln
Joined: 26 Apr 2021
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| Posted: 04/09/24 4:31 pm ::: |
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| Caldwell is expected to bring Marshall Associate HC Jenna Burdette with her to Tennessee. Burdette is Kim’s right hand. Spent time with her at Glenville State as well.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/10/24 7:10 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
The Staley comparison is not completely baseless. She had more experience, true. However, Staley's not from the south and had never coached in the south. All of her coaching experience was in her hometown. She'd never been past the S16 and had only gotten that far once. She was really young, about the same age Caldwell is now.
As for Staley taking six seasons to win the SEC and so on, note that her record (both overall and in conference) improved every year for the first eight seasons she was there. If Caldwell makes tangible progress like that, Tennessee will be satisfied. |
Staley never took Temple to the Sweet 16.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/10/24 6:09 pm ::: |
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| eibln wrote: |
| Caldwell is expected to bring Marshall Associate HC Jenna Burdette with her to Tennessee. Burdette is Kim’s right hand. Spent time with her at Glenville State as well. |
Oh, that's great. So she can recruit top talent for D-I? Yeah, right. And I suppose she'll bring the Hayes sisters along as players too. Like I said, fasten your seat belts, Lady Vol fans, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
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thardy929
Joined: 04 May 2016
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| Posted: 04/10/24 6:35 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| eibln wrote: |
| Caldwell is expected to bring Marshall Associate HC Jenna Burdette with her to Tennessee. Burdette is Kim’s right hand. Spent time with her at Glenville State as well. |
Oh, that's great. So she can recruit top talent for D-I? Yeah, right. And I suppose she'll bring the Hayes sisters along as players too. Like I said, fasten your seat belts, Lady Vol fans, it's going to be a bumpy ride. |
Caldwell was supposed to be meeting with the team today, with individual meetings happening tomorrow, so recruiting the current team to stay starts now. Jewel Spear has already publicly stated she's waiting until her individual meeting before deciding if she's staying put. I'm nervously optimistic.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 04/10/24 8:33 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Top level recruiting is national, or international, these days.
Look at South Carolina, the undefeated #1 team. Most of their starters are not Southern. None of UConn's starters are from New England. |
Which is why it is so notable that Caitlin Clark took a bunch of mid westerners to the finals twice. |
I'd say that's probably more accurate than to say Lisa Bluder took Iowa there. I love Lisa, but how long has she been anywhere close to being a coach *everybody* knows about? And....how long before she's only remembered for her Clark years?
And THAT'S true everywhere, isn't it? Coaches like Tara, Pat, Dawn and Geno have had the good luck to draw some phenomenal talent, and it can lead to the beginnings of dynasty. Then, there's Sherri Cole at OK - ZERO coaching experience at the collegiate level, and after a couple great recruits landed there (Stacey Dales, then the Paris twins, etc.) she had a powerhouse program going. Kids like Courtney Vandersloot and Sabrina Ionescu turned Kelly Graves' programs into higher-level competitors. Jim Foster did big things at Vanderbilt, and bigger things at Ohio State, with talent like Jantel Lavender and Sammi Prahalis. Some programs bloom quickly and fade away, others bloom and grow into dynasties. But the fading part is inevitable.
One other point about TN is that, while Pat's legacy made the SEC as strong as it is in wbb, that same SEC has only become MUCH more challenging and difficult to dominate than what she ever knew. TN fans need to let go of the notion that Pat is still in the room.
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pilight
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summertime blues
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thardy929
Joined: 04 May 2016
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| Posted: 04/11/24 11:25 am ::: |
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Did you read the full article? I know she said she isn't sure, and we'll see, but this sounds promising to me:
| Quote: |
"She's told me what she has in store for me and how I can help this program, so I'm really excited about that," Spear said.
Spear believes she fits in Caldwell's style of play, which includes a fast-paced offense that takes a lot of 3-pointers and a lot of shots from different players. Spear added Caldwell can help her become a better defender, too, with the way her teams press defensively.
Spear likened it to Iowa, Oklahoma and Florida State's pace of play.
"From what I've seen, it looks like there's a lot of space on the court to get downhill and make plays offensively," Spear said. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/11/24 11:52 am ::: |
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| Yeah, well... And can Caldwell recruid anyone better than Striplin, Darby, and Puckett? I have my doubts.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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