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Shades
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Ex-Ref
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 Posted: 03/03/24 12:02 pm ::: |
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| Why do they have to put Gus Johnson on these games????????? He's horrible!! It's like Cindy Brunson and Debbie Antonelli had a baby and named him Gus Johnson!
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/03/24 1:23 pm ::: |
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| Iowa press break and fast break are devastatingly good so far. |
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/03/24 1:38 pm ::: |
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The pass to Stuelke on the break was perfect. Too bad Stuelke travelled.
This crowd is tong to ERUPT when she gets 4 more points.
WTH happened to Davis?? Kind of looked like she took a shot to the gut, but then they carried her off.
Anybody else think that Maravich's record shouldn't even be in the conversation? He only played 3 seasons! Through no fault of his own. Don't compare a 3 year record to a 4 year record. It doesn't make sense.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 03/03/24 1:44 pm ::: |
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| Knee |
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Shades
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| Posted: 03/03/24 1:45 pm ::: |
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| Molly Davis had to be carried off the court. Looks serious.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/03/24 1:57 pm ::: |
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Cotie, that was dumb!!!!
Might get away with that on anyone else, but the face of the game????
Would have rather it been on a logo three, but happy it's before the ND game.
That counts!!!!!!!!!!
Are they not counting that?????
Nice commercial they had to recognize the record.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Last edited by Ex-Ref on 03/03/24 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 03/03/24 2:02 pm ::: |
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| Iowa scores 6 points in the last 0.3 seconds of the half, plus CC (in four years) breaks Pistol Pete's (three year) career scoring record in those 0.3 seconds. Unbelievable. |
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 03/03/24 2:11 pm ::: |
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When Plum chased down Stiles' record, someone here wondered how to acknowledge that Stiles played fewer games when Plum broke her record. Someone (not me) pointed out, "Gee, that's what points per game is for."
Clark broke Maravich's total points record. His ppg average was ridiculous and will likely stand the test of time. Yeah, he also had no 3-point line, etc., etc. People can qualify all they want, but Clark deserves to called the NCAA's all-time leading scorer.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/03/24 2:16 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Iowa scores 6 points in the last 0.3 seconds of the half, plus CC (in four years) breaks Pistol Pete's (three year) career scoring record in those 0.3 seconds. Unbelievable. |
I don't think that they counted Stuelke's basket. Shame, it was a great play.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/03/24 2:27 pm ::: |
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| bcdawg04 wrote: |
| Clark deserves to called the NCAA's all-time leading scorer. |
Of course. My own pet proposal to equilibrate the era when freshman could not play on varsity teams is to count all those players' freshman stats as part of their career stats, so everyone is historically measured on a four year basis. Those were all NCAA points at NCAA D1 schools regardless of whether they were scored on freshman teams or varsity teams. |
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 03/03/24 2:30 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
The pass to Stuelke on the break was perfect. Too bad Stuelke travelled.
This crowd is tong to ERUPT when she gets 4 more points.
WTH happened to Davis?? Kind of looked like she took a shot to the gut, but then they carried her off.
Anybody else think that Maravich's record shouldn't even be in the conversation? He only played 3 seasons! Through no fault of his own. Don't compare a 3 year record to a 4 year record. It doesn't make sense. |
It's always been my opinion - once I fully knew the stats behind Maravich's career record - that Pistol Pete's record should have an asterisk next to HIS name.
When I was young, and I heard about Maravich's record, and how he dazzled the crowd with his moves and hand "jive" dribbling the ball, I always expected that he was totally unstoppable at scoring the ball, he made every shot he took and no one could get a hand on him unless they fouled him. He must have made 65%-75% of his shot attempts, to make all of those points.
That was when I was young, and there was no internet around to google anyone. Then there was, and I saw HOW Pistol made his stats.
Everyone talks about Maravich's career points, but NO ONE has EVER talked about Maravich's career SHOT ATTEMPTS. THAT is the totally unbreakable record, because it is totally foreign to how organized basketball is ever played in this nation.
Imagine having a head coach that will tell the rest of the team to just give the ball to a player, and then get the eff out of that player's way. Then to work to get the rebound, and then do it again. And again. And again.
Fans may think that this was done with Clark, with Mitchell, with Plum, etc. etc. etc. They are as naive about the situation as I was when I was 18 yrs old.
Pistol Pete averaged around 44-45 ppg for his 3-yr. career. He also averaged around 44%-45% FG % for it too. That is pedestrian-level. WHen there were NO 3-pt. FG rule in CBB. That he was able to average his pointage, was because he also averaged more than 35 FG attempts per game for his entire 3-yr. college career.
And NO ONE will ever ever EVER be given that opportunity again in college basketball. Not even blue-chip, superstar players. Not even those who play for their father.
The rest of LSU's team NOT named Pete Maravich averaged 51% FG percentage in those same 3 years Pete averaged 44-45%, and took all of the team shots. But they were told to give Pete the ball, and get the eff out of his way. Every time.
Now, Pete WAS a great BB player. He went to the NBA and led the league in scoring one year. Did NOT average 44-45 ppg that year, more closer to 30 ppg. And he had to average 27+ FG attempts per gm to do THAT. But he was a quality legit great BB player - just that he was right at the level of all the other typical great BB players of his era.
None of those minus Chamberlain - who took a huge amount of shot attempts per gm in HIS early NBA career - ever average the ppg that Maravich did, because none of those players were given the INSANE opportunity that Maravich was given by his father.
And Chamberlain got fed up with the griping of all the attempts HE was taking, so he stopped taking them, and averaged 70% FG% one season and led the league in FG % for several seasons at the end of his career, and even led the league in total assists one season.
There have been TONS of great blue-chip college BB players who came through the college ranks, who completed FAR MORE than 44-45% FG % on their shot attempts. But they NEVER was allowed to average north of 35 FG attempts per gm for even ONE SEASON - much less for three - because the team chemistry would be horrible.
There will never be another Pete Maravich, because there will never be another scenario that ENABLED Maravich to do what he did at LSU. No one else will ever get that chance - THAT is why I think there should be an asterisk next to Maravich's name in history. What he was ALLOWED to do was just as unprecedented and as foreign to the game of basketball, as what he actually DID....
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/03/24 3:14 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Pistol Pete averaged around 44-45 ppg for his 3-yr. career. He also averaged around 44%-45% FG % for it too. That is pedestrian-level. |
Your shot volume point may be valid, but not this stat. 45% is an excellent career FG% for a long-shot-shooting pure guard in the 1960's. For example, Steph Curry's college career FG% was 46.7% and it's been about the same for him in the NBA.
Former coach Dale Brown has calculated that if there had been a three-point line during Maravich's era, he would have averaged nine 3pt makes per game, raising his career PPG to about 54.
| Quote: |
| "If there was a 3-point line, I think he (would have had) nine points more per game just by the shots he took where he took them," Brown said, referencing a study on Maravich's shot distribution from former LSU reporter at The Advocate Sam King. "... And if he would have known there was a 3-point shot, or if there was a shot clock that would have sped things up, his record would have been totally impossible (to break)." |
https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2023/02/22/pete-maravich-dale-brown-remembers-lsu-legend-as-ncaa-record-may-fall/69921580007/ |
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/03/24 3:53 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
The pass to Stuelke on the break was perfect. Too bad Stuelke travelled.
This crowd is tong to ERUPT when she gets 4 more points.
WTH happened to Davis?? Kind of looked like she took a shot to the gut, but then they carried her off.
Anybody else think that Maravich's record shouldn't even be in the conversation? He only played 3 seasons! Through no fault of his own. Don't compare a 3 year record to a 4 year record. It doesn't make sense. |
It's always been my opinion - once I fully knew the stats behind Maravich's career record - that Pistol Pete's record should have an asterisk next to HIS name.
When I was young, and I heard about Maravich's record, and how he dazzled the crowd with his moves and hand "jive" dribbling the ball, I always expected that he was totally unstoppable at scoring the ball, he made every shot he took and no one could get a hand on him unless they fouled him. He must have made 65%-75% of his shot attempts, to make all of those points.
That was when I was young, and there was no internet around to google anyone. Then there was, and I saw HOW Pistol made his stats.
Everyone talks about Maravich's career points, but NO ONE has EVER talked about Maravich's career SHOT ATTEMPTS. THAT is the totally unbreakable record, because it is totally foreign to how organized basketball is ever played in this nation.
Imagine having a head coach that will tell the rest of the team to just give the ball to a player, and then get the eff out of that player's way. Then to work to get the rebound, and then do it again. And again. And again.
Fans may think that this was done with Clark, with Mitchell, with Plum, etc. etc. etc. They are as naive about the situation as I was when I was 18 yrs old.
Pistol Pete averaged around 44-45 ppg for his 3-yr. career. He also averaged around 44%-45% FG % for it too. That is pedestrian-level. WHen there were NO 3-pt. FG rule in CBB. That he was able to average his pointage, was because he also averaged more than 35 FG attempts per game for his entire 3-yr. college career.
And NO ONE will ever ever EVER be given that opportunity again in college basketball. Not even blue-chip, superstar players. Not even those who play for their father.
The rest of LSU's team NOT named Pete Maravich averaged 51% FG percentage in those same 3 years Pete averaged 44-45%, and took all of the team shots. But they were told to give Pete the ball, and get the eff out of his way. Every time.
Now, Pete WAS a great BB player. He went to the NBA and led the league in scoring one year. Did NOT average 44-45 ppg that year, more closer to 30 ppg. And he had to average 27+ FG attempts per gm to do THAT. But he was a quality legit great BB player - just that he was right at the level of all the other typical great BB players of his era.
None of those minus Chamberlain - who took a huge amount of shot attempts per gm in HIS early NBA career - ever average the ppg that Maravich did, because none of those players were given the INSANE opportunity that Maravich was given by his father.
And Chamberlain got fed up with the griping of all the attempts HE was taking, so he stopped taking them, and averaged 70% FG% one season and led the league in FG % for several seasons at the end of his career, and even led the league in total assists one season.
There have been TONS of great blue-chip college BB players who came through the college ranks, who completed FAR MORE than 44-45% FG % on their shot attempts. But they NEVER was allowed to average north of 35 FG attempts per gm for even ONE SEASON - much less for three - because the team chemistry would be horrible.
There will never be another Pete Maravich, because there will never be another scenario that ENABLED Maravich to do what he did at LSU. No one else will ever get that chance - THAT is why I think there should be an asterisk next to Maravich's name in history. What he was ALLOWED to do was just as unprecedented and as foreign to the game of basketball, as what he actually DID.... |
Nobody talks about Pistol Pete's assists. I know assists were not tracked the same way back then. What's remarkable about Caitlin is leading is points AND assists. Today she had 3 assists before she even shot the ball. She gets most assists by drawing multiple defenders then making the easy pass to a teammate. That's smart TEAM basketball.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1900
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| Posted: 03/03/24 5:47 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Pistol Pete averaged around 44-45 ppg for his 3-yr. career. He also averaged around 44%-45% FG % for it too. That is pedestrian-level. |
Your shot volume point may be valid, but not this stat. 45% is an excellent career FG% for a long-shot-shooting pure guard in the 1960's. For example, Steph Curry's college career FG% was 46.7% and it's been about the same for him in the NBA.
Former coach Dale Brown has calculated that if there had been a three-point line during Maravich's era, he would have averaged nine 3pt makes per game, raising his career PPG to about 54.
| Quote: |
| "If there was a 3-point line, I think he (would have had) nine points more per game just by the shots he took where he took them," Brown said, referencing a study on Maravich's shot distribution from former LSU reporter at The Advocate Sam King. "... And if he would have known there was a 3-point shot, or if there was a shot clock that would have sped things up, his record would have been totally impossible (to break)." |
https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2023/02/22/pete-maravich-dale-brown-remembers-lsu-legend-as-ncaa-record-may-fall/69921580007/ |
Yeah yeah yeah Dale Brown is very oft quoted making this reference to some obscure calculation that a reporter supposedly made of Maravich's shot selections - that NO ONE is ever able to find or show to prove that it even exists. But even Dale Brown AND Sam King gives the most important part of this claim:
| Quote: |
| "IF there was a 3-point line........and IF he would have known there was a 3-point shot" |
Of Course Maravich was an excellent jump-shooter....he most likely had 3-pt. field goal range. But NO ONE ever thinks, "hey I'm gonna take this shot out here in 3-pt. range territory" when THERE WAS NO THREE-POINT SHOT IN BASKETBALL. And this was before the ABA, who invented the shot, so NO ONE was even THINKING "three-point shot range" any more than they were thinking "five-point shot range". It just wasn't a thing during Pistol Pete's college days.
So sorry, but Brown and King are WRONG - they may be right that HAD there been a 3-pt. field goal in CBB, that THE INCENTIVE might've been there for Maravich to take those shot attempts, and make them. Perhaps even make 9 per game. But as with the rest of his game, he'd have taken a TON of shot attempts to make those nine, and probably would have averaged greater than the 38.1 shot attempts per game he actually DID average.
But I deal with reality here, and THE REALITY was that NO, Pete Maravich WAS NOT a "long-shot shooting pure guard" as you described him. He was just like ALL OTHER PLAYERS WHO PLAYED COLLEGE BASKETBALL IN THE LATE 1960's: he drove to the basket, and he made quick mid-range jump shots. In Maravich's case, the VAST MAJORITY of his jump shots were in the 15-20 ft. range of the basket - easily inside of 3-pt. range.
Further, what you and Dale and Sam are even talking about, is slightly off from what I commented on above. If the argument is that Pete could take 58 field goal attempts per game - as opposed to the 38/gm he actually took - then YES Pete could have averaged 50-60 ppg for his college career.
But what does THAT have to do with what I talked about? If anything, it would only further CEMENT my point above.
I'm not talking about how many points he could have scored under this or that scenario that ultimately NEVER took place - I'm talking about WHAT he ACTUALLY did. And the environment that he was allowed to do it in.
NO, unlike what you and Dale and Sam try to imply, Pistol Pete did NOT take 38 shot attempts from 3-point range for his entire college career. He actually took the VAST majority of his shot attempts from the SAME AREA on the court that most other top blue-chip players that ever played college BB took theirs. He made 44-45% of those shots, which if he averaged 50% he wouldn't be in the top 300 all-time for MCBB. And he took the VAST majority of those within the SAME range of the basket that all other non-3-pt. shooting players took theirs.
The difference for Maravich that does NOT apply to anyone else in the history of the game, is that he was allowed to do it in an environment that was totally alien to MCBB for any other individual player, before or since Pistol Pete. THAT is the asterisk.....
Last edited by Conway Gamecock on 03/03/24 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 03/03/24 5:53 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
The pass to Stuelke on the break was perfect. Too bad Stuelke travelled.
This crowd is tong to ERUPT when she gets 4 more points.
WTH happened to Davis?? Kind of looked like she took a shot to the gut, but then they carried her off.
Anybody else think that Maravich's record shouldn't even be in the conversation? He only played 3 seasons! Through no fault of his own. Don't compare a 3 year record to a 4 year record. It doesn't make sense. |
It's always been my opinion - once I fully knew the stats behind Maravich's career record - that Pistol Pete's record should have an asterisk next to HIS name.
When I was young, and I heard about Maravich's record, and how he dazzled the crowd with his moves and hand "jive" dribbling the ball, I always expected that he was totally unstoppable at scoring the ball, he made every shot he took and no one could get a hand on him unless they fouled him. He must have made 65%-75% of his shot attempts, to make all of those points.
That was when I was young, and there was no internet around to google anyone. Then there was, and I saw HOW Pistol made his stats.
Everyone talks about Maravich's career points, but NO ONE has EVER talked about Maravich's career SHOT ATTEMPTS. THAT is the totally unbreakable record, because it is totally foreign to how organized basketball is ever played in this nation.
Imagine having a head coach that will tell the rest of the team to just give the ball to a player, and then get the eff out of that player's way. Then to work to get the rebound, and then do it again. And again. And again.
Fans may think that this was done with Clark, with Mitchell, with Plum, etc. etc. etc. They are as naive about the situation as I was when I was 18 yrs old...... |
Nobody talks about Pistol Pete's assists. I know assists were not tracked the same way back then. What's remarkable about Caitlin is leading is points AND assists. Today she had 3 assists before she even shot the ball. She gets most assists by drawing multiple defenders then making the easy pass to a teammate. That's smart TEAM basketball. |
Maravich was mostly a 2-guard (6-5) body-wise who played the 1-guard because of how he handled the ball, and how Press Maravich's system evolved around Pete. Still, Pete did pretty well here, averaging 5.1 apg for his career, plus 6.2 his senior year. Pete also averaged almost 14 free-throw attempts per game for his career - he scored almost one-fourth of his career points at the FT line, nearly 11 ppg there......
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/03/24 6:34 pm ::: |
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And then....IT HAPPENED. 😎
Now, all the parsing of comparative stats can be fun - I mean, we GOTTA validate the claims, right? HOWEVER.....SO MUCH MORE HAPPENED TODAY, imo.
This game and its contents were the Big Juicy Cherry on top of a gradually-escalating Women's Hoops Sundae.
As referenced throughout this Statistical Dog and Pony show staged by the media, there was Kelsey'nLynnette'nPete'nPearl'nEverybodyElse. Excellent. ESPECIALLY for players like Lynette and Pearl, players who probably 99.9% of the population had never heard about until this year.
But if I look at the past few years - even the past few Decades - I see the fruition of something most of us have only dreamed about: Maybe, just maybe, women's hoops will no longer be relegated to the status of a Niche Sport.
The TN, UConn dynasties, Tara's Coaching Record, SC's current dynasty....all undergirding what has been 2 pretty amazing seasons for our game (and I really do mean primarily the college game). We now have an unequaled parity in our game, and a bonafide EXCITEMENT, a fervor to watch history. Not JUST a record being broken, but the beauty of our game being played at its best. How many more Caitlins, JuJus and Hannahs are out there, waiting in the wings?
Re: the game, many kudos to Ohio State for playing a TOUGH gritty game in such a tough environment. They DID. NOT. GIVE. UP. And frankly, the way they've been playing, they're probably the most legit contender for that #2 spot in the national rankings....at least moreso than many of the other erstwhile occupants.
Re: Iowa, I thought many might not have noticed the significant contributions of Affolter and Feuerbach today....when TheBuckeyes staged comebacks, those 2 really held Iowa up with their gutsy defense, and key scoring.
Congratulations to all the record holders, previous and present, ANDDD....TO US, THE FANS THAT KNEW WE'D 'GET HERE'.
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/04/24 2:13 am ::: |
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'n P S....
Did I hear someone say that Gabby Marshall is headed to UNC for a grad degree? Might that include a grad year playing for the Tarheels?
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
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| Posted: 03/04/24 6:46 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
'n P S....
Did I hear someone say that Gabby Marshall is headed to UNC for a grad degree? Might that include a grad year playing for the Tarheels? |
Nope. She's had 5.
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