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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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 Posted: 03/01/24 2:44 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I keep telling you, Kellie Harper isn't going anywhere. Considering the SEC, #3 isn't the worst place to be right now. |
Warlick got 7 years and made 3 Elite Eights, 4 Sweet Sixteens, was a 2 time regular season conference champion, and 1 time conference tournament champion. She recruited well, but also dealt with injuries and roster chaos/deflections. Harper is on year 5 with no Elite Eights and no conference championship of any kind. While she will likely get 7 or 8 years(depending on how Tennessee wants to give lenience for COVID), if she doesn't make it to or advance past the Sweet 16 this year, I guarantee the seat warming process will begin, even if it takes a couple years to get hot without change. |
I'd agree with all of this - but the *dynamic* has changed a lot, too. Holly had to deal with the transition from The Legend to The Aftermath. Tough. Kelly has had to pick up those pieces and try again to resurrect A Dynasty that is simply never going to return. I'd say TN admin just needs to lower their bar of expectations. 3rd in the SEC is NOT shabby by ANYONE'S standards (with the possible exception of the Late Great Pat)
It's probably a similar scenario at UConn....their recent seasons have been (truly) crappy to no one but UConn fans. Will their former glory days ever return? They have TN to view as roadmap....odds aren't lookin' good.
SC, UCLA, LSU, USC, maybe IA and OH St....the future is theirs for the forseeable future.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/01/24 6:00 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I keep telling you, Kellie Harper isn't going anywhere. Considering the SEC, #3 isn't the worst place to be right now. |
Warlick got 7 years and made 3 Elite Eights, 4 Sweet Sixteens, was a 2 time regular season conference champion, and 1 time conference tournament champion. She recruited well, but also dealt with injuries and roster chaos/deflections. Harper is on year 5 with no Elite Eights and no conference championship of any kind. While she will likely get 7 or 8 years(depending on how Tennessee wants to give lenience for COVID), if she doesn't make it to or advance past the Sweet 16 this year, I guarantee the seat warming process will begin, even if it takes a couple years to get hot without change. |
I'd agree with all of this - but the *dynamic* has changed a lot, too. Holly had to deal with the transition from The Legend to The Aftermath. Tough. Kelly has had to pick up those pieces and try again to resurrect A Dynasty that is simply never going to return. I'd say TN admin just needs to lower their bar of expectations. 3rd in the SEC is NOT shabby by ANYONE'S standards (with the possible exception of the Late Great Pat)
It's probably a similar scenario at UConn....their recent seasons have been (truly) crappy to no one but UConn fans. Will their former glory days ever return? They have TN to view as roadmap....odds aren't lookin' good.
SC, UCLA, LSU, USC, maybe IA and OH St....the future is theirs for the forseeable future. |
Tennessee followed Louisiana Tech's road map and now UConn is following both.
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thardy929
Joined: 04 May 2016
Posts: 185
Location: Norwalk, CT
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| Posted: 03/02/24 2:16 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I keep telling you, Kellie Harper isn't going anywhere. Considering the SEC, #3 isn't the worst place to be right now. |
Warlick got 7 years and made 3 Elite Eights, 4 Sweet Sixteens, was a 2 time regular season conference champion, and 1 time conference tournament champion. She recruited well, but also dealt with injuries and roster chaos/deflections. Harper is on year 5 with no Elite Eights and no conference championship of any kind. While she will likely get 7 or 8 years(depending on how Tennessee wants to give lenience for COVID), if she doesn't make it to or advance past the Sweet 16 this year, I guarantee the seat warming process will begin, even if it takes a couple years to get hot without change. |
I'd agree with all of this - but the *dynamic* has changed a lot, too. Holly had to deal with the transition from The Legend to The Aftermath. Tough. Kelly has had to pick up those pieces and try again to resurrect A Dynasty that is simply never going to return. I'd say TN admin just needs to lower their bar of expectations. 3rd in the SEC is NOT shabby by ANYONE'S standards (with the possible exception of the Late Great Pat)
It's probably a similar scenario at UConn....their recent seasons have been (truly) crappy to no one but UConn fans. Will their former glory days ever return? They have TN to view as roadmap....odds aren't lookin' good.
SC, UCLA, LSU, USC, maybe IA and OH St....the future is theirs for the forseeable future. |
Tennessee followed Louisiana Tech's road map and now UConn is following both. |
I see this complaint a lot on the Tennessee forums but I don't buy it as Tennessee being in the SEC is totally different from La. Tech being C-USA and Old Dominion being in the Sun Belt. If things trend (further) downward in the next few years at Tennessee, they should have the resources such that a new coach could turn always turn things around again.
But as Howee said, Harper has finished 3rd in the SEC every season until this year (where she'll be tied 4th at worst). She's had at least one top player injured or out with illness for all or significant chunks of the season almost every year (Burrell, Horston, Key, Jackson). I think she deserves more time.
Warlick was an excellent recruiter but Harper has been better about building team culture and at player development IMO. Warlick got bigger wins but Harper's avoided worse losses. I think both left/leave a lot to be desired in terms of offensive/defensive schemes and consistent execution. Supposedly Tennessee is struggling with NIL in a way that's really hurting high school recruiting, which if that's true, I'm not sure how firing Harper and bringing in someone new would help all that much.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/02/24 3:32 pm ::: |
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| thardy929 wrote: |
| Tennessee is struggling with NIL in a way that's really hurting high school recruiting, which if that's true, I'm not sure how firing Harper and bringing in someone new would help all that much. |
Help me out here....most of you may get this part, but....I don't. How does NIL 'hurt' recruiting? Are various schools making varied allowances for this?
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/07/24 4:26 pm ::: |
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I think y'all can leave Kellie Harper alone here. The SEC is one of the more competitive conferences in the country. She's coped with key injuries all season long and still is fourth in a conference where two teams are way ahead of the rest. I don't see you yelling about Jeff Walz being in the same position in his conference. Deal with it.
Kelly Graves, OTOH....
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ThreeBall25
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2791
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| Posted: 03/07/24 8:27 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I don't see you yelling about Jeff Walz being in the same position in his conference. Deal with it.
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Ummm that’s because Walz had Louisville in the 2022 Final Four. Harper hasn’t even come near a Final Four. Hasn’t even made an Elite 8 despite constant lofty preseason expectations. Deal with that.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 455
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: 03/07/24 9:55 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I think y'all can leave Kellie Harper alone here. The SEC is one of the more competitive conferences in the country. She's coped with key injuries all season long and still is fourth in a conference where two teams are way ahead of the rest. I don't see you yelling about Jeff Walz being in the same position in his conference. Deal with it.
Kelly Graves, OTOH.... |
In Harper's 3 seasons at Tennessee with a post-season, she has a 2nd round exit and Sweet 16's. Walz has 2 Elite 8's and a Final Four in that same stretch. The past 5 years there has been a post-season, Louisville has made it to at least the Elite 8. Walz may struggle during the regular season at times, but he gets it done in the post-season. As coaches in general, Walz has coached for 3 less years, against tougher competition most years, and still has almost 100 more wins than Harper(and much greater post-season success). That's why no one is yelling about Walz being in the same position.
Graves should be on a hot seat or fired this season, but I'm not sure Oregon cares enough about women's basketball to make the change.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/07/24 10:18 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
I think y'all can leave Kellie Harper alone here. The SEC is one of the more competitive conferences in the country. She's coped with key injuries all season long and still is fourth in a conference where two teams are way ahead of the rest. I don't see you yelling about Jeff Walz being in the same position in his conference. Deal with it.
Kelly Graves, OTOH.... |
In Harper's 3 seasons at Tennessee with a post-season, she has a 2nd round exit and Sweet 16's. Walz has 2 Elite 8's and a Final Four in that same stretch. The past 5 years there has been a post-season, Louisville has made it to at least the Elite 8. Walz may struggle during the regular season at times, but he gets it done in the post-season. As coaches in general, Walz has coached for 3 less years, against tougher competition most years, and still has almost 100 more wins than Harper(and much greater post-season success). That's why no one is yelling about Walz being in the same position.
Graves should be on a hot seat or fired this season, but I'm not sure Oregon cares enough about women's basketball to make the change. |
Ya, you might wanna review some history before you decide he "should be on a hot seat," moreso than a coach like Ms. Harper 
Kelly G. is Head and Shoulders above Kelly H, in every regard. 4 years ago, he had what was the highly-favored NC-winning team, the year before, a FF team that lost to the eventual champion (Baylor) by 5. That year, he also beat the SEC's best (Mississippi State). He created The Gold Standard at Oregon.
Does Oregon care? Clearly, you've never watched their home crowds in recent times. Not THIS season, but past seasons have been loaded with enthusiastic fans. Yes, Oregon cares.
Yes, fortunes have changed (see: the Oregon thread here). Being at the bottom of the PAC 12 - rated as The Strongest wbb conference this season - isn't the most Fire-able offense.
The ODDEST thing, the most questionable factor, is WHY the rapid decline, in 4 short years? It reminds me of Sheri Coale's rise to stardom at OK, and then - bunches of transfers, and she finally walks away. WHY? I hear a lotta inside stories on OK's changes, but not so much on Oregon. Yet.
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: 03/08/24 11:27 pm ::: |
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| IS BRENDA FRESE SAFE?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63780
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| Posted: 03/09/24 1:42 am ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
| IS BRENDA FRESE SAFE? |
Maryland is in the semifinals of the Big Ten tournament, so I would say yes.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/09/24 12:48 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| IS BRENDA FRESE SAFE? |
Maryland is in the semifinals of the Big Ten tournament, so I would say yes. |
For the moment.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Down South
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| Posted: 03/09/24 1:36 pm ::: |
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My thoughts from a rocking chair sipping sweet tea:
1. Graves probably has one more year.
2. Freese seat is not even warm.
3. Elzy is the worst coach and recruiter in the nation.
4. Harper has done a nice job after Christmas and cant see her going anywhere this year.
5. Bruno should just retire.
6. Purcell is not a good coach. Look at his record and look at his recruits. Not good on record and no skill on players and they have gotten no better since they got there. Walz got him that job.
7. Being everyone is talking about Walz, he is one of the Top 3 coaches in the womens game right now.
So having said that Elzy should have been fired immediately after the loss, but like others say, The AD there dont care anything about the womens game,
Missouri coach fired. Clemson fired.
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: 03/09/24 3:53 pm ::: |
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| Suzie Gardner resigns at Mercer. Kiley Hill fired at Western Carolina
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SPD
Joined: 29 Oct 2021
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Location: California
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adamspt2
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 140
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| Posted: 03/11/24 12:30 pm ::: |
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I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/11/24 12:59 pm ::: |
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| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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HomerCecil
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 1209
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| Posted: 03/11/24 1:21 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his. |
I agree she was in a tough spot, but their recruiting has been terrible. She hasn't signed a top 100 player in either this year's or last year's class. Not to mention she's had trouble retaining talent.
It will be interesting to see what direction Kentucky goes. They are paying Elzy $2.5 million to leave, so I assume they are going to make a serious push to upgrade.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 2544
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| Posted: 03/11/24 1:48 pm ::: |
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| HomerCecil wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his. |
I agree she was in a tough spot, but their recruiting has been terrible. She hasn't signed a top 100 player in either this year's or last year's class. Not to mention she's had trouble retaining talent.
It will be interesting to see what direction Kentucky goes. They are paying Elzy $2.5 million to leave, so I assume they are going to make a serious push to upgrade. |
Is Mitch Barnhart gonna have the cajones (and $$) to go after Kenny Brooks? Is Brooks even interested in a new challenge?
Can definitely see Kentucky going for a big hire with the revamped/updated Memorial set to open next season…
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16359
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 03/11/24 3:10 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| HomerCecil wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his. |
I agree she was in a tough spot, but their recruiting has been terrible. She hasn't signed a top 100 player in either this year's or last year's class. Not to mention she's had trouble retaining talent.
It will be interesting to see what direction Kentucky goes. They are paying Elzy $2.5 million to leave, so I assume they are going to make a serious push to upgrade. |
Is Mitch Barnhart gonna have the cajones (and $$) to go after Kenny Brooks? Is Brooks even interested in a new challenge?
Can definitely see Kentucky going for a big hire with the revamped/updated Memorial set to open next season… |
Why would Brooks want to do that? He has built a very good program at VaTech and he is from Virginia and has spent his whole career there. I don't see any reason to think he won't retire from Tech.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 455
Location: Oklahoma
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: 03/12/24 5:43 am ::: |
Reply |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| HomerCecil wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his. |
I agree she was in a tough spot, but their recruiting has been terrible. She hasn't signed a top 100 player in either this year's or last year's class. Not to mention she's had trouble retaining talent.
It will be interesting to see what direction Kentucky goes. They are paying Elzy $2.5 million to leave, so I assume they are going to make a serious push to upgrade. |
Is Mitch Barnhart gonna have the cajones (and $$) to go after Kenny Brooks? Is Brooks even interested in a new challenge?
Can definitely see Kentucky going for a big hire with the revamped/updated Memorial set to open next season… |
Why would Brooks want to do that? He has built a very good program at VaTech and he is from Virginia and has spent his whole career there. I don't see any reason to think he won't retire from Tech. |
My theory is former Louisville assistant and current Mississippi State coach, Sam Purcell will leave MSU and return to the Bluegrass State as head coach of Kentucky. Then Mississippi State will hire Mississippi native and current Jackson State coach, Tomekia Reed. Just a thought
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: 03/12/24 5:43 am ::: |
Reply |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| HomerCecil wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| adamspt2 wrote: |
I'm shocked, but happy with this decision. I was figuring UK would give her another year. Down the road, Transy D3 women are in their second consecutive final four - were any D3 coaches ever successful as D1 coaches? |
I hate that for Kyra. She's a good person and was one of my favorite players when she was at Tennessee. I think she was put in a tough spot when she had tor eplace Matthew Mitchell on relatively short notice. Her style is way different from his. |
I agree she was in a tough spot, but their recruiting has been terrible. She hasn't signed a top 100 player in either this year's or last year's class. Not to mention she's had trouble retaining talent.
It will be interesting to see what direction Kentucky goes. They are paying Elzy $2.5 million to leave, so I assume they are going to make a serious push to upgrade. |
Is Mitch Barnhart gonna have the cajones (and $$) to go after Kenny Brooks? Is Brooks even interested in a new challenge?
Can definitely see Kentucky going for a big hire with the revamped/updated Memorial set to open next season… |
Why would Brooks want to do that? He has built a very good program at VaTech and he is from Virginia and has spent his whole career there. I don't see any reason to think he won't retire from Tech. |
My theory is former Louisville assistant and current Mississippi State coach, Sam Purcell will leave MSU and return to the Bluegrass State as head coach of Kentucky. Then Mississippi State will hire Mississippi native and current Jackson State coach, Tomekia Reed. Just a thought
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HomerCecil
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 1209
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| Posted: 03/12/24 8:39 am ::: |
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| Sam Purcell hasn't exactly had a wild level of success. Kentucky actually beat them a couple of weeks ago and only lost the other game against them by 3. I don't think he'll be the answer for Mitch Barnhart.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16359
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 03/12/24 8:41 am ::: |
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| I wonder if Kentucky's first call is up the road to Jeff Walz. Conference realignment could make the SEC look quite a bit better than the ACC.
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