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4-team trade feat. Mabrey, DeShields, Onyenwere, 1RPs, etc
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Who won the trade?
Chicago
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Dallas
71%
 71%  [ 27 ]
New York
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Phoenix
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Dallas and New York
15%
 15%  [ 6 ]
Dallas, New York, and Phoenix
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Chicago and Dallas
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Another combination
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
As there were no losers, there were no winners
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 38

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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
If you think you're getting Loyd that's not a great reason to trade the house for someone whose best position is probably... shooting guard.


I agree with your thinking(especially on her best position), but we are not Wade; in fact, if Maybry is not destined to be Chicago pg (there are reports that is actually what she was demanding), then how does she even fit this year on a roster with C. Williams, Copper, and Gardner, especially when u have "traded the house"for her? I think that in Wade's mind (emphasis I don't agree), with Loyd in his pocket, the house may not be worth much.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chicago really needed someone who can play PG since Sloot jumped ship. Hard to imagine they needed it so badly as to give up #5...but maybe. I guess they could have found someone in Europe to come play PG but that is iffy too. The additional years' first rounders seemed really weird and excessive.

I like Diamond the player, and she gets a lot of respect from me seeing her amazing recovery from that health issue last year. It's hard to tell how 'good' a teammate she is and it's hard to tell if she will be back to pre-injury form, which I don't think we saw last year. If in fact there was a lockerroom issue that included her, moving her is not bad. And Onyenwere is quite a nice player, if not so dynamic as Diamond. I think she will fit there and just quietly do her job without drawing attention to herself. Phoenix has enough other flamboyant personalities that it's useful to have some quieter ones that just fit in without fuss and muss. OTOH giving up swap rights for a first rounder is pretty steep price considering that might be a lottery pick, or close to a lottery pick.

NY basically got something for nothing, though the something may not be apparent for a couple of years. And as stated above, I don't at all consider Onyenwere a nothing, but if they were (as is probable) having to cut one of her or Willoughby, then essentially they get something for nothing. Personally I like Onyenwere better than Willoughby but most NY fans on here were considering them a toss-up and neither will be getting a lot of minutes on that loaded roster.

Dallas wins, at least in the short run, IF Diamond can produce at pre-injury levels. And all those draft picks are frosting on the top.


lynxmania



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On paper, Dallas won IMO. But in reality, depending on what they do with their picks, I would want to hold my judgement on if they are the winner.

Chicago: Got the best player in the deal. But gave up so many potentially high picks that I'd have to give them a B- or C+, just for the shear amount of picks lost

Dallas: Got a forward to replace Thornton on the wing. Adding picks in the 24/25 drafts are huge. Adding another one into the 23 draft is something I would like to see them package for something, but I assume and based on history that they will keep, draft, and either waive or sit on the bench.

New York: Got rid of a contract. Didn't see much improvement about of Onyenwere and got a few picks. Did what they needed to do. Solid job by them.

Phoenix: Got some cap space to give Taurasi/Griner some money that they deserve. Wish they could have gotten maybe a first-round pick from someone, but I like the second-rounder they got.

I'd say: Dallas, New York, Phoenix/Chicago (tied) in that order for me



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Chicago really needed someone who can play PG since Sloot jumped ship. Hard to imagine they needed it so badly as to give up #5...but maybe. I guess they could have found someone in Europe to come play PG but that is iffy too. The additional years' first rounders seemed really weird and excessive.

I like Diamond the player, and she gets a lot of respect from me seeing her amazing recovery from that health issue last year. It's hard to tell how 'good' a teammate she is and it's hard to tell if she will be back to pre-injury form, which I don't think we saw last year. If in fact there was a lockerroom issue that included her, moving her is not bad. And Onyenwere is quite a nice player, if not so dynamic as Diamond. I think she will fit there and just quietly do her job without drawing attention to herself. Phoenix has enough other flamboyant personalities that it's useful to have some quieter ones that just fit in without fuss and muss. OTOH giving up swap rights for a first rounder is pretty steep price considering that might be a lottery pick, or close to a lottery pick.

NY basically got something for nothing, though the something may not be apparent for a couple of years. And as stated above, I don't at all consider Onyenwere a nothing, but if they were (as is probable) having to cut one of her or Willoughby, then essentially they get something for nothing. Personally I like Onyenwere better than Willoughby but most NY fans on here were considering them a toss-up and neither will be getting a lot of minutes on that loaded roster.

Dallas wins, at least in the short run, IF Diamond can produce at pre-injury levels. And all those draft picks are frosting on the top.


agree about pretty much everything – especially Chicago giving up all those picks. had Chicago kept either their #5 or their 2024 1RP (but probably the #5), the trade becomes a lot more balanced on paper. Cuz while Mabrey is a loss for Dallas, the Wings also gain salary cap space in being able to essentially switch her contract out for DeShields, cuz Mabrey's 3-year $200+k-per-year deal is pretty hefty. Not to mention: THE WINGS DONT NEED MORE PICKS lmfao

And yep, New York got multiple things that have a small chance of being meaningful – but a chance nonetheless – in exchange for someone who turned into a 'nothing' (or at least a 'not much') for them in Onyenwere. Jonathan Kolb has showed himself to be a masterful GM for NY imo.

i like the idea of Dallas seeing if starting Sabally at the 3 is a fit while bringing DeShields off the bench, because if Sabally's not a fit, DeShields is right there. that said, Dallas still has a good amount to figure out, considering their three 2023 1RPs that they – once again! – don't all need, so i expect them to make at least 1-2 more key moves to help clear things up.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The years on the money is also important. Everyone aging at once off their rookie deals gets awkward, because everyone starts getting paid around the same time. DeShields is a one-year deal, in essence, leaving room next year to re-sign Sabally that would've been getting very complicated if Mabrey was on a multi-year deal instead.

Of course, it'd be nice if Satou would show up, stay healthy, and prove herself worth the deal that someone's probably going to hand her in a year...



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/12/23 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i can see DeShields proving to be a good pickup for Dallas and Sabally for one reason or another continuing to be in & out of a true role

it'll be interesting to see who starts where, particularly in the frontcourt – i imagine a Sabally/Howard/McCowan 3-4-5 with DeShields off the bench, but McCowan could come off the bench instead and have it be much smaller with DeShields-Sabally-Howard if Trammell prefers a lineup with speed/quickness

i'd assume with Mabrey gone that Burton now starts alongside Ogunbowale, as they seem like they'd be good complements to each other as it relates to offense-defense


bullsky



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PostPosted: 02/13/23 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

James is clearly betting on Free Agents > Draft Picks and I'm kind of one to believe him on that.

Serious question - what championship-calibre WNBA team was ever built mainly from the draft? Rebuild doesn't mean you have to be terrible. He's about what's going to get him the wins now. I'd rather have Mabrey than Kitley or Joens...

But back to the topic...Dallas wins based on potential, but if they're draft picks keep leaving, what good are the draft picks?



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 02/13/23 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
James is clearly betting on Free Agents > Draft Picks and I'm kind of one to believe him on that.

Serious question - what championship-calibre WNBA team was ever built mainly from the draft? Rebuild doesn't mean you have to be terrible. He's about what's going to get him the wins now. I'd rather have Mabrey than Kitley or Joens...

But back to the topic...Dallas wins based on potential, but if they're draft picks keep leaving, what good are the draft picks?

Kitley or Joens, Eww 🤢!



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:


Serious question - what championship-calibre WNBA team was ever built mainly from the draft?


Almost all of them.

Seattle won four championships on the backs of No. 1 picks - first Jackson and Bird, then Stewart, Bird and Loyd.

Minnesota won four championships off the back of No. 1 picks - Moore and Augustus. You could even throw in Whalen who they were able to get because they had the No. 1 pick to trade.

Phoenix won three titles of the No. 1 picks - Taurasi, Griner, and Taylor (expansion No. 1) - and a No. 2 (Cappie).

Just last season, Las Vegas won their title on the back of No. 1 picks - Wilson, Plum, and Young.

The Sparks won their most recent title on the back of two No. 1 picks - Parker and Oguwumike.

Even though Chicago is something of an outlier for with their title, the most important piece was a player they drafted in the lottery years before and nurtured through her development.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
Serious question - what championship-calibre WNBA team was ever built mainly from the draft?


"Mainly" is a different question than "solely" that you brought up in the Sky thread. The answer to this question is almost all WNBA championship teams (after the allocation champion Comets and Sparks) have been built mainly through the draft. The only possible exceptions are the 2019 Mystics and the 2021 Sky.

OTOH there was barely any free agency movement for most of that time. When Kristi Toliver left the Sparks after the 2016 title run it was shocking. Nobody did that. It had been more than a dozen years since a starter for a championship team left as a free agent. Stars never moved as free agents. That's all changed now.



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
bullsky wrote:


Serious question - what championship-calibre WNBA team was ever built mainly from the draft?


Almost all of them.

Seattle won four championships on the backs of No. 1 picks - first Jackson and Bird, then Stewart, Bird and Loyd.

Minnesota won four championships off the back of No. 1 picks - Moore and Augustus. You could even throw in Whalen who they were able to get because they had the No. 1 pick to trade.

Phoenix won three titles of the No. 1 picks - Taurasi, Griner, and Taylor (expansion No. 1) - and a No. 2 (Cappie).

Just last season, Las Vegas won their title on the back of No. 1 picks - Wilson, Plum, and Young.

The Sparks won their most recent title on the back of two No. 1 picks - Parker and Oguwumike.

Even though Chicago is something of an outlier for with their title, the most important piece was a player they drafted in the lottery years before and nurtured through her development.


I'll give you Phoenix but some of those other teams don't win those titles without Free Agent pick ups IMO. Brunson and Fowles in Minnesota, Lennox and Brondello in Seattle. Gray in Las Vegas. Toliver in LA.

I guess what I'm getting at is that free agents can be just as valuable as draft picks. I understand longevity but the Sky don't appear to be in a tanking mentality.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
I'll give you Phoenix but some of those other teams don't win those titles without Free Agent pick ups IMO. Brunson and Fowles in Minnesota, Lennox and Brondello in Seattle. Gray in Las Vegas. Toliver in LA.

I guess what I'm getting at is that free agents can be just as valuable as draft picks. I understand longevity but the Sky don't appear to be in a tanking mentality.


Brondello wasn't on Storm championship team. She sat out 2004 due to national team commitments.

Of the others, only Gray was a free agent. The rest were acquired by trade or dispersal draft. Free agency hasn't been a real thing in the W until very recently.



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I want to formally apologize to every member of rebkell that I used to laugh and scoff at whenever they would create a super lopsided trade scenario. I would shake my head and say that trade would never happen. Well, someone in the real world did participate in a super lopsided trade. His name is Wade. From this moment on any trade that is extremely lopsided will be call a Wade Trade.🙏🏿



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
I want to formally apologize to every member of rebkell that I used to laugh and scoff at whenever they would create a super lopsided trade scenario. I would shake my head and say that trade would never happen. Well, someone in the real world did participate in a super lopsided trade. His name is Wade. From this moment on any trade that is extremely lopsided will be call a Wade Trade.🙏🏿


He's still got a ways to go before he trades Katie Smith for Chandi Jones.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
I want to formally apologize to every member of rebkell that I used to laugh and scoff at whenever they would create a super lopsided trade scenario. I would shake my head and say that trade would never happen. Well, someone in the real world did participate in a super lopsided trade. His name is Wade. From this moment on any trade that is extremely lopsided will be call a Wade Trade.🙏🏿


He's still got a ways to go before he trades Katie Smith for Chandi Jones.


Now, now, they also got Stacey Thomas and a first round draft pick that they used to take Shona Thorburn Laughing



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DFWub2018



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PostPosted: 02/15/23 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Every team in this trade accomplished goals, but, boy, did Phoenix suffer. Under the current CBA, when a super max salaried player like Diggins gets pregnant the team gets squeezed. They have to replace her productivity while the cap space reduced by $234k. DT is already on record wanting super max $, and one would think BG would also be at that level. One side effect of LV/NY powerhouses is that players on other teams won't sacrifice salary chasing a title. Given the Mercury have also invested $150k apiece for Turner and Sophie, this means they are paying a million for just 4 active players (unless Diggins returns this year). DeShields at $154k just cannot fit, especially b/c she is UFA next year. The trade for Onyenwhere saves them $75k, but that 2025 salary switch with NY is a disaster. The Liberty figure to have great record next year, while both this year and next, the bottom for Phx is shaky. NY could easily get a lottery pic for Onyenwhere, who really had no place on the current Liberty roster (they may well have cut her). Chicago gave up high draft picks for Maybry, but they better not be a lottery team in next year's sparkling draft. I am also not sure how Maybry, Gardner, Courtney Williams and Copper all fit. As for Dallas, who knew Maybry was worth so much???? Besides getting DeShields, they get the #5 pick this year (meh in bad draft), but , as noted, if bottom falls out for Chi, they get a coveted pick next year, and that 2025 swap might also be great.



What don't you like about this year's draft class?


DFWub2018



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PostPosted: 02/15/23 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Even Lightfoot couldn't fuck something up this bad. Embarassed


I gasped, and then I screamed, and then I cackled.



"Cackled"....I'm literally on the floor right now😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/16/23 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DFWub2018 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Every team in this trade accomplished goals, but, boy, did Phoenix suffer. Under the current CBA, when a super max salaried player like Diggins gets pregnant the team gets squeezed. They have to replace her productivity while the cap space reduced by $234k. DT is already on record wanting super max $, and one would think BG would also be at that level. One side effect of LV/NY powerhouses is that players on other teams won't sacrifice salary chasing a title. Given the Mercury have also invested $150k apiece for Turner and Sophie, this means they are paying a million for just 4 active players (unless Diggins returns this year). DeShields at $154k just cannot fit, especially b/c she is UFA next year. The trade for Onyenwhere saves them $75k, but that 2025 salary switch with NY is a disaster. The Liberty figure to have great record next year, while both this year and next, the bottom for Phx is shaky. NY could easily get a lottery pic for Onyenwhere, who really had no place on the current Liberty roster (they may well have cut her). Chicago gave up high draft picks for Maybry, but they better not be a lottery team in next year's sparkling draft. I am also not sure how Maybry, Gardner, Courtney Williams and Copper all fit. As for Dallas, who knew Maybry was worth so much???? Besides getting DeShields, they get the #5 pick this year (meh in bad draft), but , as noted, if bottom falls out for Chi, they get a coveted pick next year, and that 2025 swap might also be great.



What don't you like about this year's draft class?


Boston at #1 is legit; Diamond Miller at #2 has potential, but. after that, good luck. Many mock drafts have Haley Jones #3 (which is commentary on this draft); she shoots 3/29 from 3 this year, and gets the Jordin Canada treatment in the Pac 10 (back off 10 feet). Her chances in the W to be productive are awfully poor. Yes, there are some others who might make it as significant players, and this year is better than Collier's year, but, compared to next year, it does look weak, especially at the #5 level.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
DFWub2018 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Every team in this trade accomplished goals, but, boy, did Phoenix suffer. Under the current CBA, when a super max salaried player like Diggins gets pregnant the team gets squeezed. They have to replace her productivity while the cap space reduced by $234k. DT is already on record wanting super max $, and one would think BG would also be at that level. One side effect of LV/NY powerhouses is that players on other teams won't sacrifice salary chasing a title. Given the Mercury have also invested $150k apiece for Turner and Sophie, this means they are paying a million for just 4 active players (unless Diggins returns this year). DeShields at $154k just cannot fit, especially b/c she is UFA next year. The trade for Onyenwhere saves them $75k, but that 2025 salary switch with NY is a disaster. The Liberty figure to have great record next year, while both this year and next, the bottom for Phx is shaky. NY could easily get a lottery pic for Onyenwhere, who really had no place on the current Liberty roster (they may well have cut her). Chicago gave up high draft picks for Maybry, but they better not be a lottery team in next year's sparkling draft. I am also not sure how Maybry, Gardner, Courtney Williams and Copper all fit. As for Dallas, who knew Maybry was worth so much???? Besides getting DeShields, they get the #5 pick this year (meh in bad draft), but , as noted, if bottom falls out for Chi, they get a coveted pick next year, and that 2025 swap might also be great.



What don't you like about this year's draft class?


Boston at #1 is legit; Diamond Miller at #2 has potential, but. after that, good luck. Many mock drafts have Haley Jones #3 (which is commentary on this draft); she shoots 3/29 from 3 this year, and gets the Jordin Canada treatment in the Pac 10 (back off 10 feet). Her chances in the W to be productive are awfully poor. Yes, there are some others who might make it as significant players, and this year is better than Collier's year, but, compared to next year, it does look weak, especially at the #5 level.


Same was said about Gabby Williams and she turned out fine .



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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
DFWub2018 wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Every team in this trade accomplished goals, but, boy, did Phoenix suffer. Under the current CBA, when a super max salaried player like Diggins gets pregnant the team gets squeezed. They have to replace her productivity while the cap space reduced by $234k. DT is already on record wanting super max $, and one would think BG would also be at that level. One side effect of LV/NY powerhouses is that players on other teams won't sacrifice salary chasing a title. Given the Mercury have also invested $150k apiece for Turner and Sophie, this means they are paying a million for just 4 active players (unless Diggins returns this year). DeShields at $154k just cannot fit, especially b/c she is UFA next year. The trade for Onyenwhere saves them $75k, but that 2025 salary switch with NY is a disaster. The Liberty figure to have great record next year, while both this year and next, the bottom for Phx is shaky. NY could easily get a lottery pic for Onyenwhere, who really had no place on the current Liberty roster (they may well have cut her). Chicago gave up high draft picks for Maybry, but they better not be a lottery team in next year's sparkling draft. I am also not sure how Maybry, Gardner, Courtney Williams and Copper all fit. As for Dallas, who knew Maybry was worth so much???? Besides getting DeShields, they get the #5 pick this year (meh in bad draft), but , as noted, if bottom falls out for Chi, they get a coveted pick next year, and that 2025 swap might also be great.



What don't you like about this year's draft class?


Boston at #1 is legit; Diamond Miller at #2 has potential, but. after that, good luck. Many mock drafts have Haley Jones #3 (which is commentary on this draft); she shoots 3/29 from 3 this year, and gets the Jordin Canada treatment in the Pac 10 (back off 10 feet). Her chances in the W to be productive are awfully poor. Yes, there are some others who might make it as significant players, and this year is better than Collier's year, but, compared to next year, it does look weak, especially at the #5 level.


Same was said about Gabby Williams and she turned out fine .


Gabby is a mega athlete; Jones not. Gabby's trial at pg in Chicago did not far well. Jones is a perimeter player, whose defense is way below Gabby level; in fact, just what position will Jones play in the W???
Can't see Dallas at #3 taking Haley; they already have a shaky shooter in last year's first rounder, Burton. Thibeau, good talent evaluator, with the #4 pick, will be guide to how far Jones falls in draft (IMO Maddy Seigrist has better skill package) Jones is an outstanding college player ("majestic" is my description), but her offensive skill set mainly happens near rim vs overmatched college guards. Sorry., but 3/29 3 point shooting guards in college will have big struggles in the W. Sure, DRob has had a career, but hard to see Haley Jones in that mold.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gabby Williams is a defensive specialist who still can't shoot. I don't see Haley Jones in that role.



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Gabby Williams is a defensive specialist who still can't shoot. I don't see Haley Jones in that role.


Didn’t you say you’d take Haley Jones in ATL? What role do you see her in?



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, Gabby Williams turned out fine? She spent three years in Chicago struggling to find a position and with the team generally being better whenever she didn't play, got traded because they didn't want to bother waiting for her to show up, got traded again before next showing up, and then had an okay season where Seattle were mostly better off playing Steph Talbot. She's fine in France. She remains bizarrely overvalued by US fans who still visualise her in UConn colours.

I think the hope with Jones has to be that her passing talent and vision makes her special - or, obviously, that her shooting improves significantly - but I'd be fearful of how she'll translate as well. Haven't seen much of this class, but honestly not been particularly impressed by what I have seen. Jones is a lovely college player and Miller has promise but there are a whole lot of question marks. Entirely possible I just caught the wrong games but Rickea Jackson seemed overwhelmingly forgettable.



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Haley Jones will be a better pro playing outside of the Triangle offense which limits her ability to create and be a playmaker. Having her play SF/PF she could play sort of like Napheesa Collier as a facilitator and threat from mid range. Yes she's not the defender of Gabby williams but shes a better offensive player than Gabby Williams .



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PostPosted: 02/17/23 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have a group of six players after Boston

Miller, Jones, Horston, Seigrist, Jackson and Joens

My guess a couple will end up future starters a couple will end up role players and a couple will be further down the bench to out of the league in a few seasons

Hard part is figuring out who is what

I realize she is probably going to fall a little but I still wouldn't bet against Joens

Also is Ben Simmons kind of a comp for H. Jones?


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