| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
 Posted: 12/02/22 3:17 pm ::: Flop or Foul?? |
Reply  |
|
This post was imported over here from the Game forum, on the NC St.- Iowa game, as I was interested in getting broader feedback than those on that thread.
| ucbart wrote: |
Jakia Brown Turner and Jada Boyd are simply too athletic for Czinano.
As for Clark, she is a whirlwind of greatness. With that being said, she uses her forearm to push off without ever getting called for offensive fouls better than anyone i've ever seen. She does it almost every time she drives. |
I know exactly what you're talking about, BUT....I've been doing lots of replays in various games and I've come to a conclusion that never occurred to me before (and maybe some of you who have actually played the guard position at a high level might better clarify this theory - I always played in the post  )
When a dynamic guard and a dynamic defender are beginning that 'drive' motion, they're taught to play physically close, to play side-to-belly against each other. If the defender is using her size/weight to lean in, AND the guard is bracing against that more stationary weight, WHEN the defender moves backward and gives some space, the guard with the ball has their balance thrown off just a teeny bit, and their arm comes out to rectify the momentary imbalance.
Analogy: You're leaning on a sturdy post on a waterfront pier, with your arm down and your (side) weight being supported by the post. If that post suddenly gives way and falls over into the water, I guarantee your arm is going to fling outward to counterbalance the change in weight distribution that happens, to keep you from falling into the water.
I've seen a LOT of players other than Clark do this same thing. And we've all seen the players who know how to play off of it: Dramatically throw your head back, and fall down. Deja Kelly could give lessons on it. Done well, it's effective on getting O-fouls called.
And there are most certainly the guards with the ball that DO push off intentionally, especially if it's a much larger defender, but....having seen a lot of those calls this year, I'm beginning to think it's not as 'obvious' as we fans think it is. I remember one of the announcers last night saying something about last season's point of emphasis on reining in the flopping, but also pointed out the obvious: there's no consequence for it.... 
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/02/22 10:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I would like to see a flop police.
After the game, whatever the call on the floor was, the flop police can look at the event and decide if it's a flop. If it's a flop, that player starts the next game with a foul, or multiple fouls if they were found guilty of multiple flops.
I know it will never happen, but I'm pretty sure it would cut down on the flops, especially the ones where a player acts like they got shot out of a cannon.
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 1:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| The charge/block call now seems to hinge on selling the fall. I rarely see an offensive foul call anymore unless the defender falls.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 1:39 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Duplicate
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 12/03/22 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 1:39 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The new flop rule in the men's game is working and should (and likely will) get instituted in the women’s rules eventually.
A flop results in a technical foul and one free throw and there is no longer any warning. First flop is first technical.
I understand they also now defined it as "an unsporting act that occurs when a player attempts to influence an official's judgment by creating an appearance that a foul has been committed when there has been incidental or no contact" which is a pretty good definition.
I've seen it called a couple of times and it seems to be reducing flopping.
I think conferences are allowed to use it in women's conference games, but I haven't read that any plan on doing so, unfortunately.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 6:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I read Bart's original point and the beginning of Howee's retort not to be about the defensive player's flopping, but about the legality of the offensive player's use of an off-arm bar for separation while driving.
I don't know the exact rule terminology in WCBB, but I think this usually is a legal contact move, so long as the offensive player keeps going in her entitled driving path and doesn't displace the defensive player out of her entitled defensive path, even if and as both players are bumping into each other during the movements.
Here's a video featuring the legal use of the off arm by a dribbler:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vl3uZNGpMyk" title="The Off-Arm: The Hidden Key to Ballhandling // #AttentionToDetail" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 10:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| the refs need to familiarize themselves with the proclivities of players they will be reffing. OTOH it's hard if they already have preconceived notions, but if you watch enough tape it becomes pretty clear which players are good at drawing legitimate fouls and which players just flop continually in hopes of getting the o-foul called on opponents.
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/03/22 10:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| the refs need to familiarize themselves with the proclivities of players they will be reffing. OTOH it's hard if they already have preconceived notions, but if you watch enough tape it becomes pretty clear which players are good at drawing legitimate fouls and which players just flop continually in hopes of getting the o-foul called on opponents. |
In theory that sounds like a great idea, but realistically not possible for refs to become familiar to 1,000s of players across difference conferences and divisions. It's easier once conference play starts as they typically will work within the same general locations, but non conference or exhibition games you can't expect refs to be familiar with a team that in careers they may have never officiated a game they were a part of and will never again officiate a game they will be a part of.
|
|
Hoopsmom
Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 680
Back to top |
|
|
|
