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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/07/23 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Consider that this rule is applicable to both men's and women's basketball, and I believe there are differences in the allowable composition of rosters, both in terms of quantity of players and quantity of scholarships. While I'd have to look at Big East rosters more closely to see if this is applicable, I know at least one team outside the conference that lists an honorary player on the roster, and since I'm not sure how one does that sort of thing, excluding walk-ons might be how you have to prevent The Littlest Cancer Patient or whatever from being counted as part of your healthy and available roster.

Consider also that the conference is in charge of rescheduling, and that the possibility exists of UConn having to take the L if the game can't be made up.

Consider also the well-within-the-realm-of-probability chance that further shenanigans occur in the game and UConn ends up even further below 7. I've seen stranger things and I will whip out the citation if needed.

I'm fine with the rule. Player safety needs to come first.



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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/07/23 11:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

singinerd54 wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Why should another team have to deal with everything that goes into scheduling and playing a postponed game because the other team can't keep enough players on the roster to sustain a bunch of injuries and illnesses?

Also interesting that the rule states 7 SCHOLARSHIP players must be available. Why wouldn't walk on players be able to suit up and play the game? Duke currently has THREE walk on players so the team can continue full court work even when the team inevitably has multiple players missing practice due to injury or lllness. Until this year, UConn has been incredibly lucky in not having injuries derail a championship run (hello injury free fourpeat).

Sure, it's a pain to reschedule, but what does or should DePaul gain from a forfeit (other than not having a potential loss added to their resume)? It's not like they beat UConn.

I agree that it's weird the Big East requires scholarship players and would think walk-ons should count in the total.


It's not that DePaul gains anything when UConn forfeits - it's that they don't have to go through all the shenanigans of having to juggle everything to fit in a re-scheduled game.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/08/23 6:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

singinerd54 wrote:
If this were the last game of the season or if there is no way to reschedule, I can understand forfeiting, but given it's early January, it seems makeup-able.


Just doing a quick browse at each teams schedule it doesn't seem like there is a date that stands out like oh that would be a good day to play. Even though it's early January, it's not like the Big East has a bunch of bye weeks built into their calendar that you can be like oh yes lets fit it in there, the Big East schedule seems to have very specific numbers of days between games which takes into consideration many things like travel schedule, school schedules, other sports taking place on campus, etc.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/08/23 6:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:
I'm a UConn fan, so you'll have to forgive my inevitable biases or call them out, but who does a forfeit serve? Put another way, why should forfeit be the default if postponement is an option? A forfeit shouldn't factor in to poll ranking or national tournament seeding, and it feels disingenuous to play into conference tournament seeding. The teams lose out on playing a game and the fans lose out on watching a game.

If this were the last game of the season or if there is no way to reschedule, I can understand forfeiting, but given it's early January, it seems makeup-able.

I think it's a similar enough scenario to ask: Should the Buffalo Bills be forced to forfeit their game against the Bengals?


So we have different rules early/mid-season, and different rules late in the season??

That's like not making calls late in the game that the refs had been calling since the tip off.

If Team A can't dress enough players in January against Team B and the game is rescheduled, what happens when Team A in late March again can't dress enough players against Team C & D and those games cannot be rescheduled? Is this the can of worms that the BE wants to open?

Team A knows the rules. Put enough players on your roster that are on scholarship to get through some injuries/illnesses. Or take your forfeit/no contest and learn from it for next year.

And knowing the rules, I'm thinking* that Team A, knowing that they had one player out for the year, and a couple of others that are injured, could probably have given a walk on a scholarship to meet the requirement?


Scholarships are for a year, so you can't give someone a scholarship in the middle of the year, but you can give a new person a scholarship in the middle of the year (transfer, incoming freshman). With transfers I believe they also have to meet certain criteria to qualify for a scholarship mid year if they choose to transfer at the end of the quarter/semester.
*I don't know enough about scholarship rules to know if they can be given mid-season or not, but if not, did Miles, and is Prosper, paying their own way?


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/08/23 4:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 01/08/23 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy


This seems like not the weekend to bring up coach punishments for curfew or similar violations.
summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/09/23 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

awhom111 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy


This seems like not the weekend to bring up coach punishments for curfew or similar violations.


I meant to not only inject levity but to highlight the difference between then and now of being able to bring in walk-ons vs. having to have so and so many scholarship players. Sorry if you didn't get the point.



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 01/10/23 12:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
awhom111 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy


This seems like not the weekend to bring up coach punishments for curfew or similar violations.


I meant to not only inject levity but to highlight the difference between then and now of being able to bring in walk-ons vs. having to have so and so many scholarship players. Sorry if you didn't get the point.


Sorry, I did get your point. I was referring to this discussion happening a couple days after it was uncovered that the reason that a DIII team was postponing games was because players had violated curfew on a road trip. The coach designed a punishment workout that was too intense and it sent five players to the hospital.
GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/10/23 3:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy


NAIA could still have those rules, I don’t follow the NAIA, but that’s a separate organization with their own set of rules. Also this isn’t an NCAA thing it’s a Big East thing, so the NCAA doesn’t technically have a rule (or rather have this particular rule in place) about it either in the sense that they’ve basically have said conferences create your own rules. Which they have been doing quite a bit with in other areas as well.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/10/23 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
Related, though not applicable to this scenario, and a funny story of sorts. WAY back in the da (pre Title IX), I attended a small college in Wisconsin for a couple of years prior to transferring to UW-Madison. They played sports in the NAIA. At the time of which I am speaking, the entire team, except for one player, had attended an off-campus party celebrating the birth of one player's baby. The coach suspended all of them except the player who hadn't attended for the next game, and substituted players from the intramural teams. after a week's practice, they went into the game and actually won it quite handily. I don't know whether it was a testament to the coach's abilities or the fact that the opponent was the doormat of the conference that accounted for the W, though. I guess rules were different in the NAIA back then. Very Happy


NAIA could still have those rules, I don’t follow the NAIA, but that’s a separate organization with their own set of rules. Also this isn’t an NCAA thing it’s a Big East thing, so the NCAA doesn’t technically have a rule (or rather have this particular rule in place) about it either in the sense that they’ve basically have said conferences create your own rules. Which they have been doing quite a bit with in other areas as well.


Seems like kind of a silly rule. A team ought to be able to use their walk-ons, presuming they have any, if they are a player or two short. I mean, geez. There should probably be a division-wide rule made.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 01/11/23 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35428179/arizona-state-women-basketball-forfeits-vs-utah-colorado

Quote:
The Arizona State women's basketball team forfeited games Friday at No. 10 Utah Utes and Sunday at Colorado because the Sun Devils said they didn't have enough healthy players.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 01/11/23 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:


Seems like kind of a silly rule. A team ought to be able to use their walk-ons, presuming they have any, if they are a player or two short. I mean, geez. There should probably be a division-wide rule made.


I think you're looking at it backwords. These rules were created by the ADs, doing their coaches' bidding. They WANTED it to say they didn't have to play a game with walk-ons. They'd rather have a forfeit on their record (expecting that the selection committee will largely ignore it come March) than have an actual played-game loss on their record which will hurt them at selection time, and they expect that if they play walk-ons against opponent scholarship players they stand a high likelihood of losing.


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/11/23 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35428179/arizona-state-women-basketball-forfeits-vs-utah-colorado

Quote:
The Arizona State women's basketball team forfeited games Friday at No. 10 Utah Utes and Sunday at Colorado because the Sun Devils said they didn't have enough healthy players.


Now this is what you have to do when you can't field a team - not force the other team to scramble to re-schedule a game they were ready to play.

Things are different when it comes to a communicable illness like Covid, where teammates might have been exposed to the Covid positive players, who could then expose the opposing team (this is what happened when a poor covid testing schedule Louisville brought Covid to Duke players in 2021). When it was happening to a majority of teams, EVERYBODY was forced to scramble to find healthy opponents to play.

What happened with UConn is they had a higher than average number of injuries, which does happen to teams from time to time. It's what leads some coaches to have more players on the bench so they can still field a team when the injury bug hits big.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/11/23 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/11/23 11:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.


It doesn't have to be a blanket rule, just a sensible rule. There are just some of us that think that the BE rule is non-sensical.

It looks like they were too lazy to update a COVID-era rule, then applied it to a non-COVID situation. They took a rule that was intended to be for the protection of ALL BE players, coaches, and staff and applied it to a team that was ill-prepared to consider all reasonably possible situations.

Makes the BE look like a second rate conference.

Seriously, if Junkies caught on to the issue right away, why didn't the BE? Did they not consider that this situation could happen? Did they not care?

Either way, they look negligent in their duties.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/12/23 1:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.


It doesn't have to be a blanket rule, just a sensible rule. There are just some of us that think that the BE rule is non-sensical.

It looks like they were too lazy to update a COVID-era rule, then applied it to a non-COVID situation. They took a rule that was intended to be for the protection of ALL BE players, coaches, and staff and applied it to a team that was ill-prepared to consider all reasonably possible situations.

Makes the BE look like a second rate conference.

Seriously, if Junkies caught on to the issue right away, why didn't the BE? Did they not consider that this situation could happen? Did they not care?

Either way, they look negligent in their duties.


Why are you under the assumption the rule was meant to be COVID specific, do you know what was the conference’s rules prior to COVID? The Pac-12 didn’t reevaluate their rule made during COVID and then reevaluate it after the end of season. They clear from the beginning it was only concerning COVID and enforced forfeits last season for non-COVID related reasons, I didn’t hear of any of the other conferences with as hard of a stance as the Pac-12 had.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/12/23 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.


It doesn't have to be a blanket rule, just a sensible rule. There are just some of us that think that the BE rule is non-sensical.

It looks like they were too lazy to update a COVID-era rule, then applied it to a non-COVID situation. They took a rule that was intended to be for the protection of ALL BE players, coaches, and staff and applied it to a team that was ill-prepared to consider all reasonably possible situations.

Makes the BE look like a second rate conference.

Seriously, if Junkies caught on to the issue right away, why didn't the BE? Did they not consider that this situation could happen? Did they not care?

Either way, they look negligent in their duties.


Exactly. You hit it right on the nose.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/12/23 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.


It doesn't have to be a blanket rule, just a sensible rule. There are just some of us that think that the BE rule is non-sensical.

It looks like they were too lazy to update a COVID-era rule, then applied it to a non-COVID situation. They took a rule that was intended to be for the protection of ALL BE players, coaches, and staff and applied it to a team that was ill-prepared to consider all reasonably possible situations.

Makes the BE look like a second rate conference.

Seriously, if Junkies caught on to the issue right away, why didn't the BE? Did they not consider that this situation could happen? Did they not care?

Either way, they look negligent in their duties.


Why are you under the assumption the rule was meant to be COVID specific, do you know what was the conference’s rules prior to COVID? The Pac-12 didn’t reevaluate their rule made during COVID and then reevaluate it after the end of season. They clear from the beginning it was only concerning COVID and enforced forfeits last season for non-COVID related reasons, I didn’t hear of any of the other conferences with as hard of a stance as the Pac-12 had.


First two paragraphs from the article I linked in one of my earlier posts:

Quote:
The forfeit policy the Big East put in place for the 2021-22 season had the right intentions behind it. It was meant to encourage teams to be as safe as possible from a COVID perspective, while eliminating the chance of team’s “ducking games” to avoid losses. Unfortunately, the emergence of a new COVID variant was causing forfeits left and right. In fact, to date there would have been eleven games forfeited. Basically, the season was trending towards being decided by who was sick, not who actually won games.

So last week, the Big East announced a change to their cancelation policy. The result was that all previous forfeits were wiped, and now games can be rescheduled. Here are some of the key points to keep in mind that came from this announcement:



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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DePaul ran out of scholarship players. Saturday's game at Seton Hall is postponed. So it's not all about UConn.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Big East teams use the Big East’s rules in this regard. Pac-12 teams go by the Pac-12’s rules. Take it up with the NCAA if you want a blanket rule.


It doesn't have to be a blanket rule, just a sensible rule. There are just some of us that think that the BE rule is non-sensical.

It looks like they were too lazy to update a COVID-era rule, then applied it to a non-COVID situation. They took a rule that was intended to be for the protection of ALL BE players, coaches, and staff and applied it to a team that was ill-prepared to consider all reasonably possible situations.

Makes the BE look like a second rate conference.

Seriously, if Junkies caught on to the issue right away, why didn't the BE? Did they not consider that this situation could happen? Did they not care?

Either way, they look negligent in their duties.


Why are you under the assumption the rule was meant to be COVID specific, do you know what was the conference’s rules prior to COVID? The Pac-12 didn’t reevaluate their rule made during COVID and then reevaluate it after the end of season. They clear from the beginning it was only concerning COVID and enforced forfeits last season for non-COVID related reasons, I didn’t hear of any of the other conferences with as hard of a stance as the Pac-12 had.


First two paragraphs from the article I linked in one of my earlier posts:

Quote:
The forfeit policy the Big East put in place for the 2021-22 season had the right intentions behind it. It was meant to encourage teams to be as safe as possible from a COVID perspective, while eliminating the chance of team’s “ducking games” to avoid losses. Unfortunately, the emergence of a new COVID variant was causing forfeits left and right. In fact, to date there would have been eleven games forfeited. Basically, the season was trending towards being decided by who was sick, not who actually won games.

So last week, the Big East announced a change to their cancelation policy. The result was that all previous forfeits were wiped, and now games can be rescheduled. Here are some of the key points to keep in mind that came from this announcement:


I understand the rule you are stating is regarding COVID, but my question was what was (if there was a rule) prior to COVID regarding injuries and scholarship players. The Pac-12 as I mentioned took a strong stance last season and said they rule was only related to COVID, as far as I can tell no other conference has taken as strong of a stance, in fact in recall reading last week the Ivy League has a similar stance that if a team falls below 7 active players for any reason they can have a game postponed and possibly called a no contest. Everyone is stating the rule created by COVID, but is that a the exact rule they are using for the UCONN-DePaul game and now the DePaul-Seton Hall game or did that have a previous rule in place they are using. Perhaps a rule never existed prior to COVID and honestly I can't recall ever hearing of a situation prior to COVID of a team not having enough players to play a game, but I would guess each conference had some rule in place prior to COVID.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

every day on ESPN's schedule at the bottom is one or two cancellations or postponements of D1 games. Any insights into why? weather maybe but I assume some are illness too. It's not a huge number, but seems like some every day.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure if the MSU at Purdue game will be held on 2/15. There was a mass shooting at MSU last night. MSU has canceled all activities for 48 hours, including athletic events. I don't know if that applies to home events only or all events. Or when the 48 hour period actually started.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
PUmatty



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I'm not sure if the MSU at Purdue game will be held on 2/15. There was a mass shooting at MSU last night. MSU has canceled all activities for 48 hours, including athletic events. I don't know if that applies to home events only or all events. Or when the 48 hour period actually started.


The game as been at least postponed. ESPN has it labeled as cancelled.


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 02/14/23 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I'm not sure if the MSU at Purdue game will be held on 2/15. There was a mass shooting at MSU last night. MSU has canceled all activities for 48 hours, including athletic events. I don't know if that applies to home events only or all events. Or when the 48 hour period actually started.


The game as been at least postponed. ESPN has it labeled as cancelled.


Perhaps they can delay it by one day, but it might be a push for Michigan State to gather everyone up and focus after the devastating event (current count is 3 killed and 5 critical). Suzy still hasn’t appeared on the sideline since her medical-related car crash.

Both teams had two games scheduled in these last two weeks of the conference season - MSU with Wed/Sat and PU with Wed/Sun.


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