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ArtBest23
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 Posted: 12/12/22 1:24 pm ::: |
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This week's poll: https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-womens-college-basketball-poll
UConn drops 3 spots to 9, Maryland up 5 to 15, UCLA breaks into the top 10 at 10, Iowa up 4, Iowa St down 4, Michigan down to 19, AZ down to 20.
I don't understand that they separated previously tied UNC and NCSt by moving UNC ahead. NCSt has looked better to me. Of the two, I'd have moved State ahead.
Four ACC teams bunched in the Top 10 at 5, 6, 7, 8. Can't last because they start playing each other this week, but it bodes well for an exciting year of conference play. Wonder what the voters will do with, for example, the loser of ND-VT next Sunday.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/12/22 2:51 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center. |
On the men's side seven of the preseason top 10 are currently out of the top 10, including the preseason #1 being out of the top 25. It has not been the lead story on Sports Center. |
Yeah, so where's the outrage over there? /s |
Actually it's been covered extensively.
By the way, even as much chaos as there has been (and the men’s is almost always far more volatile than the women’s) there is still only ONE preseason top 10 team, UNC, that has dropped out of the top 25, rather than THREE on the women’s side, and much has been written and reported about UNC's performance. It actually HAS been the lead story on Sportcenter.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. |
Thank you for bringing reality back to this thread! As a Duke fan, you know I'm celebrating the UNC Cheater Men's fall out of T25. And, yes, even though only one men's team has fallen completely out of the T25, it has, indeed, been a lead story (much to my delight!). Nothing could be finer that giving the Cheaters their just desserts! Losing to them at last year's FF made me physically ill. It remains a travesty that the NCAA did not issue much more severe consequences to years of fake classes at UNC to keep their athletes on the floor, field and pitch.
Again, having THREE pre season top 10 teams fall completely out of the T25 is quite newsworthy, no matter the reason. UConn has been decimated by multiple injuries, yet remains in the top 10. |
Regarding how unusual this is, last week's AP story accompanying the release of the poll said:
Louisville fell out of the Top 25 for the first time since 2016, a span of 127 weeks. That was the fifth longest active streak. The Cardinals (5-4) started the season ranked seventh and have struggled to find consistency this year, dropping their last two games to Ohio State and Middle Tennessee.
They are the third preseason top 10 team to fall out of the poll, joining Texas (this week) and Tennessee (last week). Before this year, only 10 preseason top 10 teams had fallen out of the rankings at some point during the year since the AP Top 25 became a writers’ poll in 1994-95.
Even more rare has been a preseason top five school dropping out. Only five teams had done that prior to this year and none before January. Tennessee was the last to do it, starting the 2015-16 season at No. 4 before falling out of the rankings Feb. 22.
Now Texas and Tennessee are both out before the New Year.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 12/12/22 5:59 pm ::: |
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| Columbia gets two votes and Princeton none. This could be the first time Columbia has ever gotten votes, much less being ranked ahead of Princeton. |
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/12/22 8:37 pm ::: |
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9-0 Kansas makes its first appearance in the AP WBB Poll since 2013, entering at 22 after its shellacking last week of Arizona and Wichita St.
Interesting that 7-1 Arizona, despite its 8 spot drop, remains 2 spots ahead of Kansas, the team that beat them 77-50. Not sure why. It's not like Arizona has beaten anyone with a pulse.
Let's see. AZ has a worse record, against a MUCH weaker schedule, and got completely blasted in their head to head matchup. So why exactly would anyone vote them higher? Pure inertia is the only explanation I can think of.
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Conway Gamecock
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| Posted: 12/13/22 12:14 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
9-0 Kansas makes its first appearance in the AP WBB Poll since 2013, entering at 22 after its shellacking last week of Arizona and Wichita St.
Interesting that 7-1 Arizona, despite its 8 spot drop, remains 2 spots ahead of Kansas, the team that beat them 77-50. Not sure why. It's not like Arizona has beaten anyone with a pulse.
Let's see. AZ has a worse record, against a MUCH weaker schedule, and got completely blasted in their head to head matchup. So why exactly would anyone vote them higher? Pure inertia is the only explanation I can think of. |
Its writers who vote in these things trying to defend their street cred and reputation as knowledgeable people when it comes to these polls.
To place Kansas above Arizona would mean they got Kansas AND Arizona wrong in the previous polls - the polls are NOT supposed to rank the top 25 based on whatever week they sit at, for each poll. They are supposed to rank teams based on how strong those teams are expected to be for the entire season.
So one loss - even a bad loss to a previously unranked Kansas, isn't supposed to throw Kansas up above Arizona, and isn't supposed to throw Arizona down below Kansas. Otherwise, that would be an admittance that all the previous rankings that had Arizona above Kansas WAS WRONG.
The pollsters are trying to say that if these 2 teams played each other 10 times, that Arizona would still somehow win 9 of them, or 8 or 7 or something like that. And therefore - in the grand scheme of things for the season - Arizona deserves to be above Kansas in the rankings, despite everything you've pointed out about AZ's season thus far.
Even so-called "journalists" don't like to be proven wrong, or to admit they are. They do so only when refusing to admit it starts to make them look like fools, and even then they try to hedge their bets beforehand. Because to be proven to be wrong, means they don't really know what they are doing after all, and are just posing somewhat educated opinions and going with the flow of the herd as the safest option......
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 12/13/22 8:49 pm ::: |
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| After 956 games and 37 years competing as an NCAA Div. I program, Columbia women's basketball has received its first votes in the Associated Press Top 25 Poll. |
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pilight
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/19/22 2:35 pm ::: |
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Interesting. The ND-VT outcome simply reshuffled the four ACC teams at 5, 6, 7, 8. ND stayed at 5 (inching up on #4 IU), VT dropped from 6 to 8, with UNC and NCST each moving up 1 spot.
For some reason LSU and UCLA swapped places at 10 and 11, and Utah and Iowa swapped places at 12 and 13. All four teams won this week, and none had a particularly notable win. Don't know what overroad the usual inertia.
Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess.
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readyAIMfire53
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| Posted: 12/19/22 9:22 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Interesting. The ND-VT outcome simply reshuffled the four ACC teams at 5, 6, 7, 8. ND stayed at 5 (inching up on #4 IU), VT dropped from 6 to 8, with UNC and NCST each moving up 1 spot.
For some reason LSU and UCLA swapped places at 10 and 11, and Utah and Iowa swapped places at 12 and 13. All four teams won this week, and none had a particularly notable win. Don't know what overroad the usual inertia.
Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
I'll be present for this game! It's the annual "teddy bear toss" so expecting a bigger than usual crowd (which isn't saying much, these days). This Duke/UVA game should show which team deserves to be in the T25 (if either of them do). Duke and UVA are two of the original ACC teams and each has had times of dominating the league, though UVA has not been near the top in this milenneum.
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pilight
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| Posted: 12/19/22 10:58 pm ::: |
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| Duke hasn't beaten anyone of note. Their one game against a ranked opponent they lost by 28 at a neutral site. Virginia hasn't really beaten anyone either but they are undefeated so it's not surprising they're polling better.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/20/22 1:14 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Duke hasn't beaten anyone of note. Their one game against a ranked opponent they lost by 28 at a neutral site. Virginia hasn't really beaten anyone either but they are undefeated so it's not surprising they're polling better. |
Maybe not ranked wins, but Duke's is not an LSU or AZ schedule. They beat Toledo, a team that beat #19 Michigan. They beat Ore St, which is the only P5 team LSU has even played and LSU is ranked 10. They beat aTm and Northwestern, who aren't good but are at least P5 teams. Their SOS is better than ranked teams like Kansas, Arkansas, and Michigan. I'm not saying they've proven much of anything, but It's hard to understand why Duke isn't being taken as seriously as some of these other teams.
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pilight
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| Posted: 12/20/22 9:35 pm ::: |
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| I assume it's because Duke was spanked on national television. Plus LSU was ranked preseason for some reason.
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readyAIMfire53
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| Posted: 12/20/22 11:51 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| I assume it's because Duke was spanked on national television. Plus LSU was ranked preseason for some reason. |
Yes, Duke was routed by UConn before that team got decimated by injuries. I'm not complaining about where Duke is currently ranked compared to other teams. The next 3 games (vs UVA, at NC State, vs Louisville) will tell us more than all the pre conference games put together. If we can win 2 out of 3, then we'll have room to talk.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/22/22 4:53 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
Guess we saw who should "shut up". I'm happy for UVA and their improvement from the Tina Thompson fiasco. But I think their fans got a little ahead of themselves based on their having devoured a whole box of a dozen cupcakes.
Looked to me like they're not really ready to beat the upper middle tier of the ACC, much less the top tier. They're going to struggle against anyone with a competent post, and Brunelle is going to struggle to score against or defend a quicker quality PF ( which is why she wouldn't be getting minutes at ND and transferred). I think they'll be getting better talent and improving the next few years, but complaining about their ranking was probably premature. Maybe they will prove me wrong. They will soon get another chance, facing VT, NCSt and UNC on Jan 5, 8 and 12, the first 2 on the road. That would be a very tough 8 days for anyone. They should be happy to win 1 (UNC most possible).
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readyAIMfire53
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| Posted: 12/22/22 5:59 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
Guess we saw who should "shut up". I'm happy for UVA and their improvement from the Tina Thompson fiasco. But I think their fans got a little ahead of themselves based on their having devoured a whole box of a dozen cupcakes.
Looked to me like they're not really ready to beat the upper middle tier of the ACC, much less the top tier. They're going to struggle against anyone with a competent post, and Brunelle is going to struggle to score against or defend a quicker quality PF ( which is why she wouldn't be getting minutes at ND and transferred). I think they'll be getting better talent and improving the next few years, but complaining about their ranking was probably premature. Maybe they will prove me wrong. They will soon get another chance, facing VT, NCSt and UNC on Jan 5, 8 and 12, the first 2 on the road. That would be a very tough 8 days for anyone. They should be happy to win 1 (UNC most possible). |
UVA fans should be VERY pleased at how this team has turned around. They are a couple of players away from competing with the top of the conference on most nights. They play HARD - a little too hard (reckless) at times.
I agree that out of the ACC's top 4, UNC looks the most beatable, and will likely be dropping down in the polls a bit. This Louisville team is dangerous right now as they fight their way back into the T25. Looking forward to their visit here on New Year's Day.
Notre Dame has returned to their usual position since joining the ACC - at the top of the conference. - alone at the top after beating Va Tech. Every game involving two of the top 7 teams is bound to be a good game and Ga Tech and Fla State are wanting to break into that group by upsetting one or more of the top 7.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 12/23/22 1:07 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
Guess we saw who should "shut up". I'm happy for UVA and their improvement from the Tina Thompson fiasco. But I think their fans got a little ahead of themselves based on their having devoured a whole box of a dozen cupcakes.
Looked to me like they're not really ready to beat the upper middle tier of the ACC, much less the top tier. They're going to struggle against anyone with a competent post, and Brunelle is going to struggle to score against or defend a quicker quality PF ( which is why she wouldn't be getting minutes at ND and transferred). I think they'll be getting better talent and improving the next few years, but complaining about their ranking was probably premature. Maybe they will prove me wrong. They will soon get another chance, facing VT, NCSt and UNC on Jan 5, 8 and 12, the first 2 on the road. That would be a very tough 8 days for anyone. They should be happy to win 1 (UNC most possible). |
UVA fans should be VERY pleased at how this team has turned around. They are a couple of players away from competing with the top of the conference on most nights. They play HARD - a little too hard (reckless) at times.
I agree that out of the ACC's top 4, UNC looks the most beatable, and will likely be dropping down in the polls a bit. This Louisville team is dangerous right now as they fight their way back into the T25. Looking forward to their visit here on New Year's Day.
Notre Dame has returned to their usual position since joining the ACC - at the top of the conference. - alone at the top after beating Va Tech. Every game involving two of the top 7 teams is bound to be a good game and Ga Tech and Fla State are wanting to break into that group by upsetting one or more of the top 7. |
What a difference a coach makes, eh rAf? I knew Coach Mox was good when I watched her follow Kellie at Missouri State. Not a bump in the road there. I agree that UNC is very beatable; JMU only lost to them by 10, and that was at the very beginning of their season when they were still sorting themselves out and missing a key post player. I don't think it would be the same now.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 12/23/22 1:08 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
Guess we saw who should "shut up". I'm happy for UVA and their improvement from the Tina Thompson fiasco. But I think their fans got a little ahead of themselves based on their having devoured a whole box of a dozen cupcakes.
Looked to me like they're not really ready to beat the upper middle tier of the ACC, much less the top tier. They're going to struggle against anyone with a competent post, and Brunelle is going to struggle to score against or defend a quicker quality PF ( which is why she wouldn't be getting minutes at ND and transferred). I think they'll be getting better talent and improving the next few years, but complaining about their ranking was probably premature. Maybe they will prove me wrong. They will soon get another chance, facing VT, NCSt and UNC on Jan 5, 8 and 12, the first 2 on the road. That would be a very tough 8 days for anyone. They should be happy to win 1 (UNC most possible). |
UVA fans should be VERY pleased at how this team has turned around. They are a couple of players away from competing with the top of the conference on most nights. They play HARD - a little too hard (reckless) at times.
I agree that out of the ACC's top 4, UNC looks the most beatable, and will likely be dropping down in the polls a bit. This Louisville team is dangerous right now as they fight their way back into the T25. Looking forward to their visit here on New Year's Day.
Notre Dame has returned to their usual position since joining the ACC - at the top of the conference. - alone at the top after beating Va Tech. Every game involving two of the top 7 teams is bound to be a good game and Ga Tech and Fla State are wanting to break into that group by upsetting one or more of the top 7. |
What a difference a coach makes, eh rAf? I knew Coach Mox was good when I watched her follow Kellie at Missouri State. Not a bump in the road there. I agree that UNC is very beatable; JMU only lost to them by 10, and that was at the very beginning of their season when the Dukes were still sorting themselves out and missing a key post player. I don't think it would be the same now.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/23/22 7:35 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Virginia has moved ahead of both Louisville and Duke in the "others" and is approaching a top 25 spot. Good for them, but I'm not really convinced they're actually better than either one. Duke has an insignificant 3 votes, the same as Columbia and fewer than Rice; not sure why they're not being taken seriously. Duke and UVA play each other this week in Durham so it's put up or shut up time for both, I guess. |
Guess we saw who should "shut up". I'm happy for UVA and their improvement from the Tina Thompson fiasco. But I think their fans got a little ahead of themselves based on their having devoured a whole box of a dozen cupcakes.
Looked to me like they're not really ready to beat the upper middle tier of the ACC, much less the top tier. They're going to struggle against anyone with a competent post, and Brunelle is going to struggle to score against or defend a quicker quality PF ( which is why she wouldn't be getting minutes at ND and transferred). I think they'll be getting better talent and improving the next few years, but complaining about their ranking was probably premature. Maybe they will prove me wrong. They will soon get another chance, facing VT, NCSt and UNC on Jan 5, 8 and 12, the first 2 on the road. That would be a very tough 8 days for anyone. They should be happy to win 1 (UNC most possible). |
UVA fans should be VERY pleased at how this team has turned around. They are a couple of players away from competing with the top of the conference on most nights. They play HARD - a little too hard (reckless) at times.
I agree that out of the ACC's top 4, UNC looks the most beatable, and will likely be dropping down in the polls a bit. This Louisville team is dangerous right now as they fight their way back into the T25. Looking forward to their visit here on New Year's Day.
Notre Dame has returned to their usual position since joining the ACC - at the top of the conference. - alone at the top after beating Va Tech. Every game involving two of the top 7 teams is bound to be a good game and Ga Tech and Fla State are wanting to break into that group by upsetting one or more of the top 7. |
What a difference a coach makes, eh rAf? I knew Coach Mox was good when I watched her follow Kellie at Missouri State. Not a bump in the road there. I agree that UNC is very beatable; JMU only lost to them by 10, and that was at the very beginning of their season when they were still sorting themselves out and missing a key post player. I don't think it would be the same now. |
Yeah, Coach Mox is the deal. Luckily UVA did not keep Tina around any longer. At Duke, we're seeing how long it takes to rebuild a program that was completely decimated by a bad coach Duke kept many years too long.
Duke went from a coach who spent the entire pre-game at Penn complaining about a lack of practice tennis court for herself instead of doing ANY game planning or team prep for the game (which became painfully obvious as highly ranked Duke got beat by - completely unranked, not even a mid major - Penn. That incident was a great analogy for her entire tenure at Duke. She spent ZERO time increasing her coaching skill or even studying the tendencies of her own players. In fact, JPM spent more time making sure she took down EVERY picture of Coach than she ever spent developing an offense based on the players on the squad. And she got rid of almost every single member of the support staff, so the entire program was just demolished.
UVA was smart to send Tina packing and made a smart hire. Duke AD had signed JPM to too big of a deal to be able to send her away, so had to wait until she decided to leave - too late for an incoming coach to recruit for - not just the upcoming season, but also the NEXT season! Former AD Kevin White can eff himself from here to kingdom come and it won't be enough for me! After all the sweet deals she got, JPM left Duke with both eff you fingers. Just a miserable human as well as awful bball coach.
I'm looking forward to Duke and UVA having some epic battles in the future with Coaches Mox and Kara. Hope to make another trip or two up Charlottesville.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 12/24/22 9:53 am ::: |
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| I don't know how many ways I can say it---Tina Thompson was a complete disaster as a coach, and I don't know why UVA kept her on so long. I had the opportunity(?) to see one of her teams in person when they came up here and got waxed by JMU and they were seriously awful. Couldn't play together on a bet, and Tina just stood there with her arms folded. One of her assistants yelled at them, but nobody listened. It was painful to watch them, but great for the Dukes.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 12/24/22 4:23 pm ::: |
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| Duplicate.
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readyAIMfire53
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| Posted: 12/26/22 3:57 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| I don't know how many ways I can say it---Tina Thompson was a complete disaster as a coach, and I don't know why UVA kept her on so long. I had the opportunity(?) to see one of her teams in person when they came up here and got waxed by JMU and they were seriously awful. Couldn't play together on a bet, and Tina just stood there with her arms folded. One of her assistants yelled at them, but nobody listened. It was painful to watch them, but great for the Dukes. |
From the perspective of a Duke fan, Tina was gone almost instantly! We had to endure 11 LONG years, with our AD extending and giving raises to the mediocre JPM. 11 years is long enough to completely destroy a program - Kara not only has to build from scratch, but on top of the wreckage. Clearing the wreckage took extra long since she never knew if it was on top of a survivor who could be crushed when removing debris. I would put Vanessa deJesus in that category of almost being crushed, but now we can see why Kara chose to salvage her while bidding adieu to most JPM recruits she inherited. Vanessa's turning out to be the best JPM recruit in years - a better player than MCDAA Jade Perry ever was. And if Vanessa is your best recruit in JPM's last 4 years, you know the program was in some deep doo doo.
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pilight
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readyAIMfire53
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| Posted: 12/26/22 4:49 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-womens-college-basketball-poll?week=8
South Carolina still unanimous
NC State up to #6
Michigan up to #14
Arkansas down to #24
Same 25 teams as last week |
Some shakeup in the "beyond 25" with Louisville now at 26 and Duke at 27, with these two facing off in Durham New Year's Day.
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PickledGinger
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| Posted: 12/26/22 4:53 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| It gets even more fun after today. Most of the top teams who have actually played top teams have lost. And 2 more of the top ten will lose tomorrow. I predict a bunch of teams who have only played cupcakes will be moving way up - after all they are undefeated! Charlie is pulling his hair out. |
If top teams end up playing top teams, how would they get out of those unscathed? |
I think she means have lost in general? As opposed to the matchups? Cause that’s 50%.
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Howee
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| Posted: 12/26/22 6:47 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-womens-college-basketball-poll?week=8
South Carolina still unanimous
NC State up to #6
Michigan up to #14
Arkansas down to #24
Same 25 teams as last week |
Interesting to see that UNC made the most precipitous drop, down 7 spots from last time. The L'ville/Duke matchup oughtta be a decent game - will it be televised, given it's not ranked teams?
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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