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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Tiburon, CA
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 Posted: 02/01/23 9:05 pm ::: |
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| craigmont wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| craigmont wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| craigmont wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
I’m joining the “trade Loyd” camp, and I’ve also been in the “I don’t trust our front office one bit” camp for a while as some may recall but I’m gonna go ahead and reaffirm that commitment, since we could’ve cored Stewart instead of Loyd in 2021 but didn’t.  |
Well now that we're being cynical, I'll bet threats were made that bad things would happen if they had tried to core Stewart. |
We don’t know anything for sure. It did seem at the time that Loyd was more likely to leave between the two of them. Stewie could’ve been withholding her true feelings about leaving at that point; I wonder how blindsided we were when she took that original meeting with the Liberty last year. We’ll probably never know.
Still, the fact of the matter is, you just let your superstar player walk for nothing. It ain’t great for us right about now.
The true work begins for Talisa Rhea. I’ll avoid dragging out the past again talking about the GM before her… |
What's the alternative though? A sign and trade?
We don't know what the team tried to do, but the player had all the power here and the team had none.
At least we have tons of cap space now. We're pretty much an expansion team. |
Well, yeah. Hindsight is 20/20, but because 2022 ended without a title and we’ve just lost Stewie for nothing, ya kinda wonder if we’d have been in better shape right about now.
Again, it’s also possible that we only cored Loyd cuz we really didn’t expect Stewie would want to leave. Can’t help but wonder about everything at a time like this.
I’m sure we have a contingency plan now as it relates to the full-on rebuild we’re about to begin, but I sure hope we can execute it to perfection. |
Everyone knew it was gonna be Bird's last year, so we had to throw everything at "win now." And that's most likely why Stewart (and maybe even Loyd) stayed at all.
Let's see what Ezi can do! |
Not to mention that if SEA cored Stewart instead of Loyd, Breanna could have basically just asked for a 'Contract Divorce', like many others have, and considering what BS has done for the Storm, they would look pretty crummy not to grant it.. And then they would then be in danger of losing Loyd as well. 
End of an era... sad
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/01/23 9:11 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
I'm not disputing the rest of what you've said above. But this is the second time I've seen discussion of the Liberty offloading the contract of Betnijah Laney. Was it you who wrote that the first time as well? I can't recall.
As a Liberty fan, I can imagine reasons why the Liberty might want to do what you're suggesting here if it involves trading Dolson. But Laney? In my view, no way. |
I’m really just putting out what ESPN talking heads themselves did earlier today.
But, as you would say, consider this: I haven’t checked myself, but it apparently didn’t go unnoticed that Dolson’s social media pages showed her being openly excited about Stewie’s commitment, but Laney’s pages completely avoided the topic.
That said, that doesn’t mean Dolson isn’t on the trading block – she just may not know it.  And it’s possible Laney knows she could be traded, but that she doesn’t actually end up traded if Dolson’s the one who goes instead. (And weren’t the Storm interested in signing Dolson last year? Hmm) And hey – there’s nothing that says they can’t both get dealt!
Why would the Liberty trade Laney? To free up $200k from the cap, and maybe they just don’t trust her knees anymore. Idk. There are still several true SFs on the roster – this would be a good opportunity to let go of one or two.
I would want Laney to stay on the Liberty, too; I agree with you. She deserves to be on a contending roster for the first time ever, as the high-level player she is (when healthy) today. But, the reality could very well become otherwise.
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/01/23 9:22 pm ::: |
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[quote="Stormeo"]
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
I’m really just putting out what ESPN talking heads themselves did earlier today.
But, as you would say, consider this: It was noticed that Dolson’s social media pages showed her being openly excited about Stewie’s commitment, but Laney’s pages completely avoided the topic.
That said, that doesn’t mean Dolson isn’t on the trading block – she just may not know it. And it’s possible Laney knows she could be traded, but that she doesn’t actually end up traded if Dolson’s the one who goes instead. (And weren’t the Storm interested in signing Dolson last year? Hmm)
Why would the Liberty trade Laney? To free up $200k from the cap, and maybe they just don’t trust her knees anymore. Idk. There are still several true SFs on the roster – this would be a good opportunity to let go of one or two. I would want Laney to stay on the Liberty, too, I agree with you. But, the reality could be otherwise. |
I'm not saying it COULDN'T be true. Just that there's no way I'd do this if I were Jonathan Kolb and there were any reasonable alternative. It's true that the Liberty would still have Willoughby or Onyenwere to play SF, but neither so far has shown anything (in my view) close to Laney.
I think everything you've suggested is possible. No question. And if Vandersloot comes to New York that potentially changes a lot.
At the moment, all we know for sure about the thinking of Kolb and Brondello is that they wanted Jonquel Jones and Breanna Stewart. We will see what moves remain, if any. I'm not assuming that the current, apparent Liberty roster is final.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/01/23 9:34 pm ::: |
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Yep, it looks as if it’s as simple as New York wanting Sloot & Stewie (and JJ) on their roster more than any of their 2022 vets, and doing what they have to do in order to get who they want.
| Admiral_Needa wrote: |
| Speaking of 'pages completely avoided the topic', it's interesting that SEA's facebook and twitter pages have not mentioned Stewart... They posted a Thank You to Talbot on FB, though... |
Exactly. Talbot’s signing has happened already, hence the official announcements & thank-you letters. Stewart’s has not, hence, nothing yet.
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 354
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| Posted: 02/01/23 11:12 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
Updated Depth Chart:
2: Jewell Loyd
5: Mercedes Russell |
Additions:
Subtractions:
- Sue Bird: retired
- Briann January: retired
- Breanna Stewart : via free agency
- Stephanie Talbot : via free agency
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8859
Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: 02/01/23 11:27 pm ::: |
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| Holly said that Stewie had very specific demands for signing with anyone & that the Libs went out & did things necessary to meet them. unsaid, but reading between the lines, was that Apparently the Storm didn’t make the moves. Sounds like a front office faux pas since it was no secret that she met with the Libs last year.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 02/02/23 3:41 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| I continue to be upset at whichever assholes traumatized your son at a game all those years ago. I hope they’ve since d*ed a painful d*ath. 😔 Would’ve loved to have seen you be just a neutral Storm hater, but alas. 😭 |
That's kind of you to say, but ain't no going back in time. That bell can't be un-rung.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/23 8:33 am ::: |
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| I would be surprised if Stewart required a sign and trade so she could get super max (though Bonner has done that in the past), less surprised if it was a strategic move to free up more cap space to sign Sloot as well. As a weirdo who isn't that excited to get Stewart in the first place (not that I don't plan on rooting for her and the team and hoping for a championship) if we are doing a sign and trade with Stewart so we can pick up Sloot as well and we lose Laney and/or Dolson and/or 1st round picks in 24/25 (Technically Stewart and bringing in Sloot is worth Laney/Dolson and a future first round draft pick or picks so not so shocking value-wise. Thinking back to when EDD left Chicago on a trade request and Chicago got Dolson, Copper and the #2 pick. If Stewart really wanted Sloot as well and had the leverage of opting to stay in Seattle and bring Sloot their NY would probably be accommodating in a trade and not play hardball) I will be less excited about the move as a whole. Will be interested to see how this unfolds today.Of course if Sloot and Stewie really wanted to play together another root would be to sign under value contracts which seems to be all the rage these days. However Seattle getting talent and picks for Stewart is a good move on their part and probably the most realistic road they have to staying competitive as I expect tanking/rebuilding is probably not their plan (that might be a better strategy, but owners also think about box office and when you have strong attendance sucking for a year or two could really hurt your box office).
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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Location: Bing-town
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 11:44 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I would be surprised if Stewart required a sign and trade so she could get super max (though Bonner has done that in the past), less surprised if it was a strategic move to free up more cap space to sign Sloot as well. |
This is precisely the extra bit of the sign-and-trade scenario that I was going to mention. If Sloot wants to go there and both she and Stewart want to get paid, New York have to do some manoeuvering to make room. Then the sign-and-trade could help them do that while also offering Seattle something. Of course, they could also just trade whoever to someone else to make room, but if you're trying to shift that Dolson contract that might not be simple.
Weird balancing act going on where Seattle might be the main other option for Sloot, but if she picks New York they'd be more likely to get something for Stewart. |
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/02/23 12:10 pm ::: |
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I don’t even think Sloot returning home is worth it anymore if we’re still not gonna be good enough to contend with the likes of Vegas & NY. A staring lineup with Sloot-Loyd-free agent SF-Magbegor-Russell is good, but not truly good enough imo.
At least if Sloot picks NY, it would probably help us get a jump on rebuilding, if it opens up having to do a sign-and-trade with Stewie.
I just don’t want us to half-ass anything. All-in to contend, or all-in to [re]build. Those are the two options in this league to achieve success.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/02/23 12:12 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I would be surprised if Stewart required a sign and trade so she could get super max (though Bonner has done that in the past), less surprised if it was a strategic move to free up more cap space to sign Sloot as well. |
This is precisely the extra bit of the sign-and-trade scenario that I was going to mention. If Sloot wants to go there and both she and Stewart want to get paid, New York have to do some manoeuvering to make room. Then the sign-and-trade could help them do that while also offering Seattle something. Of course, they could also just trade whoever to someone else to make room, but if you're trying to shift that Dolson contract that might not be simple.
Weird balancing act going on where Seattle might be the main other option for Sloot, but if she picks New York they'd be more likely to get something for Stewart. |
In my opinion, there is no way 33 year old Sloot is going to spend her twilight years in a hopeless situation (Seattle) with a shaky coach and GM. When your last couple of seasons have been spent in championship level settings, u ain't going to the bottom (especially when NY offers everything Sea lacks....big time team plus competent management). BTW, have u noticed the striking exodus of quality players choosing to leave the Storm over the last few years? The latest, and in my mind quite revealing, is not Stew, but Steph Talbot, who has chosen LA, where she will play for $110k and might not even start with Katie Lou on roster. She is passing on the Storm, who have a million to burn, would offer her at least $50k more plus a more prominent role. The excuse offered in the press is that she wanted to get deal done quickly, but, come on, this doesn't ring true. Something quite rotten is going on in Seattle,
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 12:25 pm ::: |
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| I didn't think Sloot was going anywhere near Seattle once Stewart picked New York either, but then two reporters who rarely get this stuff wrong tweeted yesterday that Vandersloot had picked the Storm. Yes, those messages were quickly deleted and retracted, but it leaves me thinking that it might still be an option for her. |
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 1:36 pm ::: |
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| If the Storm do a sign-and-trade just to help New York dump a contract nobody wants, they're a lot dumber than I thought.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 1:45 pm ::: |
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But if, say, New York are going to have to attach a first-round pick to get someone else to take Dolson, do you just do that yourselves if you're Seattle? And/or maybe you get Nyara Sabally, or Onyenwere, or whoever else thrown in.
I don't think you just take Dolson if you're Seattle - especially as two of the few players they already have are 5s - but if they incentivise it then maybe it's worth it. Only one year left on Dolson's deal and probably not much else to do with all their cap space, so there wouldn't be much opportunity cost. |
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/02/23 1:50 pm ::: |
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And that’s the whole point of a dump deal or a partial-dump deal like this one would be. You never only get the dumped player – you also get other assets with actual (or at least theoretical) value, which is why the team receiving the dumped player would agree to such a deal in the first place.
That’s a deal that would be better than losing Stewart for nothing.
I’d want the Liberty’s 2025 1RP included if I were a Storm decision-maker, cuz New York has a ton of vacant cap space in 2024 as things stand now. Hard to say at this moment in time if their window of contention will truly stretch beyond this year. Meanwhile, their 2024 1RP is more than likely gonna be outside the Top-10.
Any other assets in the deal besides the dumped player – Willoughby, Richards, Onyenwere, NSabally, etc. – would be gravy imo, if we could just obtain that 2025 1RP.
Last edited by Stormeo on 02/02/23 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 1:57 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
But if, say, New York are going to have to attach a first-round pick to get someone else to take Dolson, do you just do that yourselves if you're Seattle? And/or maybe you get Nyara Sabally, or Onyenwere, or whoever else thrown in.
I don't think you just take Dolson if you're Seattle - especially as two of the few players they already have are 5s - but if they incentivise it then maybe it's worth it. Only one year left on Dolson's deal and probably not much else to do with all their cap space, so there wouldn't be much opportunity cost. |
For a good young player and a first it's worth considering taking Dolson's contract, although NY doesn't have a first this year and next year's probably won't be very high.
We're all assuming NY wants to get rid of Dolson, is that true since they got JJ and still have Han Xu?
Last edited by craigmont on 02/02/23 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/02/23 1:59 pm ::: |
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| With Sloot and Stew, I feel we are watching a very coordinated process. Remember that these 2 have been teammates in Europe for several years, and they are currently together in Turkey; in addition, they share the same agent. First Stew announces her choice of teams are down to two; then the day before free agency, Sloot reveals her departure from Chicago. Now Stew, with deserved fanfare, chooses NY. I believe we will soon see Sloot join her, as each avoids crowding the other's day in the sun. One interesting aside: In her Chicago goodbye, Sloot profusely thanked the Chicago organization. Now, maybe i missed it (and perhaps it means nothing), but in all the hubbub yesterday, including the ESPN interview, I did not hear Stew say or post anything about the Storm hierarchy from coach/GM on up.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 2:01 pm ::: |
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Stewart Tweeted and Instagrammed this morning, scroll up for a link.
What happens to Johannes if Sloot goes to NY?
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/23 2:21 pm ::: |
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On the one hand if nothing is signed yet Sloot and Stewie could both just take a little less if they really want to play together in NY.
OTOH while everyone is looking at Dolson I think Laney could just as easily be in the sign and trade. Laney makes more than Dolson, NY already has Thorton in place to fill the SF spot, and Dolson is a really good fit with Stewie and Jones off the bench.
And I was also thinking with Sloot and Ionsecu in place could NY offer the rights to Johannes, there is always the risk of her not showing but Seattle could offer her a starting spot and more money than NY (would she show up for say 125-150k?)
It would seem over the top but Laney, N. Sabally (it seemed strange to me that NY management already said they couldn't afford her so not that big of a deal as a throw in) the rights to Johannes and a future first round pick could be on the table (And I'm sure you could sub/swap in Dolson, Willoughby, Onyewere, Richards, Thorton or the rights to any of our other Internationals Kone, Fathoux, Carerra, I doubt Han Xu but who knows, but you probably need at least one of Laney or Dolson in the mix to free up the cap)?
(Hopefully NY would be smart enough to lock up the core of Ionescu, Sloot, Stewie and Jones for a couple of years so the pick is less likely to be in the lottery)
Last edited by J-Spoon on 02/02/23 2:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/02/23 2:25 pm ::: |
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| craigmont wrote: |
Stewart Tweeted and Instagrammed this morning, scroll up for a link.
What happens to Johannes if Sloot goes to NY? |
Johannes becomes the first guard off the bench and still gets a good number of minutes. In 2022 Ionescu averaged 32.3 minutes and Vandersloot 26.5. Right there would be 21 minutes per game for Johannes. But if I were Sandy Brondello I'd reduce Vandersloot's minutes a bit to keep her fresh for the playoffs. Might want to slightly reduce Sabrina's minutes as well.
I am skeptical that Vandersloot is coming to New York, but that's just a guess.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/02/23 2:41 pm ::: |
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| With Stew and Sloot, the issue is whether they will sacrifice some salary (and avoid the need for sign and trade) to enable NY to keep the best players available. Look at the Aces roster; practically every player is playing way under their market value.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/23 2:52 pm ::: |
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If Stewie's not after the supermax, and even willing to take less than the max, then there's no need for NY to do a sign-and-trade.
So here we are:
PG: ?? (rights to Jade Melbourne)
SG: Loyd
SF: (Williams)
PF: (Magbegor)
C: Russell
I actually wouldn't mind and wouldn't be surprised to see us re-sign Charles.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/23 3:07 pm ::: |
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| In theory if there was a sign and trade it could also be with Chicago instead of Seattle
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