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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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Location: Holland
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 Posted: 02/07/23 6:11 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| so long as you have to depend on Jewell Loyd to carry the load, the team will be mediocre. She's dynamic and can be fun to watch. She also misses a lot of shots so if she takes more, she will miss more. Stewie and Bird could balance it out. Without them, ouch. |
I just don’t think Loyd’s a Storm lifer anyway. I think she jumps ship next year as a UFA who can’t be cored. That’s why I want to trade her for whatever we can get – I know she’s an expensive SG, but I’d like to think we could get some team’s 1RP from some future date along with a salary dump or other unwanted things. I just hope her whole situation doesn’t result in a buyout where we’d get nothing.
| J-Spoon wrote: |
I know it is not want Seattle fans want to hear but
Max out Mabrey
Bring back Charles
Seattle could be ok
Again I know ok is not what most fans want |
It’s not only what I wouldn’t want, but I don’t find it realistic either. Dallas has the cap space to match whatever Mabrey signs as a RFA; I would not want to give up anything just to get her. Unless we do something like swap Loyd for a Mabrey multi-year deal + their #11, we’d be stupid to give away any picks right now.
As for Charles, I don’t know why she would come back when we don’t have a contending roster, plain & simple. |
Why cant we core her? We only cored her once right?
Best case scenario: we rent Diggins for a year, get Mabrey, re-sign Charles and get Meesseman to sign for part of the year.
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: 02/07/23 7:21 am ::: |
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| Absolutely NOOOOOOOOOO th Skylar.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24356
Location: London
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| Posted: 02/07/23 11:01 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
Why cant we core her? We only cored her once right? |
You only cored Loyd once, but she signed a two-year deal. The rule is a max of two years played under a contract signed while cored. So assuming she plays this year, no one will be able to core her again (unless the rule changes in the next CBA). |
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/07/23 6:26 pm ::: |
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| At this stage in preseason roster formation, compared to every other W team, Seattle is just hopeless. I mentioned the lack of pg earlier, but look at the front line: promising Ezi and Russell (we don't know if she can play). There is no other size. Now they bring back 35 yr old fan favorite Sami, who may very well be on downside plus Kia Nurse (as noted above, coming off bad season plus ACL). Remember, also, that this GM has shown no real ability over her tenure; just consider how little the Storm have to show for all the talent that were champs just 2 years ago. Other lowlights include, signing for big $, Dupree.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 02/07/23 10:49 pm ::: |
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Are we bringing back the stormeo kiss of death already? Lmao
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 02/07/23 11:14 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| At this stage in preseason roster formation, compared to every other W team, Seattle is just hopeless. I mentioned the lack of pg earlier, but look at the front line: promising Ezi and Russell (we don't know if she can play). There is no other size. Now they bring back 35 yr old fan favorite Sami, who may very well be on downside plus Kia Nurse (as noted above, coming off bad season plus ACL). Remember, also, that this GM has shown no real ability over her tenure; just consider how little the Storm have to show for all the talent that were champs just 2 years ago. Other lowlights include, signing for big $, Dupree. |
There's a whole lot of front offices without TWO NC's contending much harder for worst front offices. There's always a down after you get all the stars aligned for a good run.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/07/23 11:48 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| At this stage in preseason roster formation, compared to every other W team, Seattle is just hopeless. I mentioned the lack of pg earlier, but look at the front line: promising Ezi and Russell (we don't know if she can play). There is no other size. Now they bring back 35 yr old fan favorite Sami, who may very well be on downside plus Kia Nurse (as noted above, coming off bad season plus ACL). Remember, also, that this GM has shown no real ability over her tenure; just consider how little the Storm have to show for all the talent that were champs just 2 years ago. Other lowlights include, signing for big $, Dupree. |
There's a whole lot of front offices without TWO NC's contending much harder for worst front offices. There's always a down after you get all the stars aligned for a good run. |
I disagree. There are 11 other W teams. Please tell me just one that has functioned so poorly this preseason. Every other team has made moves to attempt to improve. Sure, some, like Seattle, have had to deal with personnel losses (Chicago and CT come to mind), but even they have made some hopefully positive steps to put together a roster that can win games. Yes, the Storm have a recent proud history of success, but the current coach and GM, in my mind, deserve zero credit; in fact, I could make an argument that both played roles in hurting the team. I see zero indication that either is capable of putting together and guiding the team back to the top.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 02/08/23 3:06 am ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| At this stage in preseason roster formation, compared to every other W team, Seattle is just hopeless. I mentioned the lack of pg earlier, but look at the front line: promising Ezi and Russell (we don't know if she can play). There is no other size. Now they bring back 35 yr old fan favorite Sami, who may very well be on downside plus Kia Nurse (as noted above, coming off bad season plus ACL). Remember, also, that this GM has shown no real ability over her tenure; just consider how little the Storm have to show for all the talent that were champs just 2 years ago. Other lowlights include, signing for big $, Dupree. |
There's a whole lot of front offices without TWO NC's contending much harder for worst front offices. There's always a down after you get all the stars aligned for a good run. |
I disagree. There are 11 other W teams. Please tell me just one that has functioned so poorly this preseason. Every other team has made moves to attempt to improve. Sure, some, like Seattle, have had to deal with personnel losses (Chicago and CT come to mind), but even they have made some hopefully positive steps to put together a roster that can win games. Yes, the Storm have a recent proud history of success, but the current coach and GM, in my mind, deserve zero credit; in fact, I could make an argument that both played roles in hurting the team. I see zero indication that either is capable of putting together and guiding the team back to the top. |
Well, the bottom is Atlanta before last year and LA before the coming season if you're looking for front offices that destroyed teams. LA didn't have a retirement to deal with, they drove away the players that won them the 'ship. That's a low bar for Seattle to get under.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/08/23 5:00 am ::: |
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after wasting time deep-diving back into various Storm-related threads, i can't find whichever one it was where i went tf off on Alisha Valavanis for being a mediocre GM who really just ended up getting lucky in one or two trades at the right time (was Younger Me a little crazy back then? yes – though i haven't gotten saner, and [so] i stand by what i said lmfao mayhaps it's a questionable hill to die on but bitch i've been buried  )
anyway, we're in sort of a weird position right now. we're not openly rebuilding – perhaps related to not losing ticket sales, though the loss of Stewie will mean the loss of some attendance numbers no matter what – but we'll probably be bad enough to be a Lottery team anyway no matter who we sign/trade for, because all the better free agents are for the most part gone, so our roster will be occupied by a lot of younger players and/or mid[dling] vets.
the key word there is "probably." unless we hard-tank, we won't be guaranteed to be bad & thus a spot in the Lottery. if we just sorta fuck around this year and have a placeholder roster of sorts, that could still be enough to make it into the playoffs if Noelle Quinn proves once & for all that she's a good coach and whips the group into shape. great for her, but not all that great for the future of the team as it relates to the Draft. again, truly tanking pretty much wipes the blame off anyone for missing the playoffs. it also allows a team to grow a group of young players straight from the soil, instead of again, possibly fucking around with mid[dling] vets who will take the team exactly nowhere.
still, at this rate, we'll have a worse roster than Indiana no matter if we openly tank or not. it'd be nice for a bunch of younger players like 1-3 years removed from college made the roster and became part of a season-long tryout to be a part of the team's core moving forward. Kia Nurse and Yvonne Turner aren't about to be those players – even Kaila Charles sorta seems to be who she is at this point. (Neither is Sami Whitcomb, but at least she's a fan favorite whose return will help increase merch sales!  )
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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Location: Holland
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| Posted: 02/08/23 5:18 am ::: |
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| If we are going to suck this year then i rather want to have a fun player like Sami on the team. Dont care if she is 35. She can still shoot lights out from everywhere
_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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sithinfiltrator
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: 02/08/23 8:26 am ::: |
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I really think that the Storm are a bit of a hot mess at this time. And I have been a season ticket holder since 2004. I have seen the highs and lows throughout the years.
Ever since Karen Bryant left, I feel like the FO has been a bit clueless. Morgan Tuck? Jantel Lavender? Candance Dupree? The only reason the Storm won two championships is they had Sue, and lucked into two #1 lottery picks for Jewel and Stewie. Outside of that, my favorite thing they have done was Gabby, but that isn't going to help with Prioritization now. And Howard was a really good trade.
Hiring Noelle as coach might be the worst of them all. She is unseasoned. Needs to have had at least three more years as an assistant to even consider her for head coach. Love her as a person. But just doesn't seem to be with it on the sidelines.
I love the ownership group in Seattle. They seriously are some of the best people I have met. Their love of the Storm and their support of the team is top notch. But they really need to get the FO figured out and if Noelle can't cut it as coach, find somebody who can.
And try out some young talent who has potential to take the next step. We aren't going to be good, so might as well look to polish some rough diamonds. And hope we can strike lottery gold for a third time in the team's history.
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Storm STH
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 508
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| Posted: 02/08/23 9:49 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| At this stage in preseason roster formation, compared to every other W team, Seattle is just hopeless. I mentioned the lack of pg earlier, but look at the front line: promising Ezi and Russell (we don't know if she can play). There is no other size. Now they bring back 35 yr old fan favorite Sami, who may very well be on downside plus Kia Nurse (as noted above, coming off bad season plus ACL). Remember, also, that this GM has shown no real ability over her tenure; just consider how little the Storm have to show for all the talent that were champs just 2 years ago. Other lowlights include, signing for big $, Dupree. |
There's a whole lot of front offices without TWO NC's contending much harder for worst front offices. There's always a down after you get all the stars aligned for a good run. |
I disagree. There are 11 other W teams. Please tell me just one that has functioned so poorly this preseason. Every other team has made moves to attempt to improve. Sure, some, like Seattle, have had to deal with personnel losses (Chicago and CT come to mind), but even they have made some hopefully positive steps to put together a roster that can win games. Yes, the Storm have a recent proud history of success, but the current coach and GM, in my mind, deserve zero credit; in fact, I could make an argument that both played roles in hurting the team. I see zero indication that either is capable of putting together and guiding the team back to the top. |
Well, the bottom is Atlanta before last year and LA before the coming season if you're looking for front offices that destroyed teams. LA didn't have a retirement to deal with, they drove away the players that won them the 'ship. That's a low bar for Seattle to get under. |
I was specifically referring to this preseason. Obviously, in years past, we have seen some horrendous W mismanagement (Seth Sulka in Phx, Nolan Richardson in Tulsa and, more recently Catch come to mind). That same history has shown that it can take many long years in darkness (and lots of losses) to wring out the stench. Making matters worse, I do see plenty of signs in other franchises of intelligence. Maybe it's the (successful) million dollars paid to Hammon, but teams (and some have been hit with defections, injuries, pregnancies etc.) are trying to improve. Some attempts at roster makeover may well fail, but at least the rest of league is trying to be smart. The Storm not so much. We all know that, in the W, injuries do determine team fate each season, but color me shocked if Seattle does not end up with the worst record.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Bing-town
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| Posted: 02/08/23 10:29 am ::: |
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Any front office would be reeling from the losses this one just took. They're irreplaceable. If we're giving Dan Hughes credit for everything good that happened, well, who hired him? And if he was in charge of personnel, that includes the 2021 offseason where Dupree was signed, Howard was signed and traded for the draft pick we traded to Dallas for KLS and they used on Charli Collier.
I haven't seen evidence that Quinn can't coach.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 02/08/23 12:15 pm ::: |
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| sithinfiltrator wrote: |
I really think that the Storm are a bit of a hot mess at this time. And I have been a season ticket holder since 2004. I have seen the highs and lows throughout the years.
Ever since Karen Bryant left, I feel like the FO has been a bit clueless. Morgan Tuck? Jantel Lavender? Candance Dupree? The only reason the Storm won two championships is they had Sue, and lucked into two #1 lottery picks for Jewel and Stewie. Outside of that, my favorite thing they have done was Gabby, but that isn't going to help with Prioritization now. And Howard was a really good trade.
Hiring Noelle as coach might be the worst of them all. She is unseasoned. Needs to have had at least three more years as an assistant to even consider her for head coach. Love her as a person. But just doesn't seem to be with it on the sidelines.
I love the ownership group in Seattle. They seriously are some of the best people I have met. Their love of the Storm and their support of the team is top notch. But they really need to get the FO figured out and if Noelle can't cut it as coach, find somebody who can.
And try out some young talent who has potential to take the next step. We aren't going to be good, so might as well look to polish some rough diamonds. And hope we can strike lottery gold for a third time in the team's history. |
Fantastic post which says it all. I feel bad for Storm season ticket holders who will now be shelling out $ for 20 home games, and getting a truly inferior product with no hope in sight. We can assume the Storm felt forced to core Jewel last year (a move that has now let Stew walk for zero compensation) presumably out of fear that Loyd was going to leave. It is a very safe assumption that next year Loyd will be gone (rat deserting a sinking ship). This means that, other than Ezi, the Storm future is completely barren. Never seen such a situation where EVERY other W team has some hope.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 02/08/23 3:04 pm ::: |
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| sithinfiltrator wrote: |
I really think that the Storm are a bit of a hot mess at this time. And I have been a season ticket holder since 2004. I have seen the highs and lows throughout the years.
Ever since Karen Bryant left, I feel like the FO has been a bit clueless. Morgan Tuck? Jantel Lavender? Candance Dupree? The only reason the Storm won two championships is they had Sue, and lucked into two #1 lottery picks for Jewel and Stewie. Outside of that, my favorite thing they have done was Gabby, but that isn't going to help with Prioritization now. And Howard was a really good trade.
Hiring Noelle as coach might be the worst of them all. She is unseasoned. Needs to have had at least three more years as an assistant to even consider her for head coach. Love her as a person. But just doesn't seem to be with it on the sidelines.
I love the ownership group in Seattle. They seriously are some of the best people I have met. Their love of the Storm and their support of the team is top notch. But they really need to get the FO figured out and if Noelle can't cut it as coach, find somebody who can.
And try out some young talent who has potential to take the next step. We aren't going to be good, so might as well look to polish some rough diamonds. And hope we can strike lottery gold for a third time in the team's history. |
This is an excellent analysis of where the Storm are right now. The team has gotten REALLY lucky with getting #1 pick in the years that #1 was a franchise player. THREE times, with one actually earned. Lauren Jackson, Sue Bird, Jewell Loyd, Breanna Stewart. The only other team with that much luck (+ successful shennanigans) is Phoenix - and both have a bunch of WNBA 'ships to show for all that luck.
I consider the current state of the Storm to mostly be natural ebb and flow. Of course the fans expect a ship every year due to past success! Unfortunately for the Storm, the franchise is highly unlikely to get THAT lucky anytime soon and other franchises with clearly underperforming FOs have upgraded. I could be wrong and Seattle sucks so badly, they play their way into the lottery (though the lottery is for last two years and they played in the Championship game LAST season) AND they again get #1 pick.
Losing the Championship series with Sue, Breanna and Jewel is certainly reason to question FO - as well as the questionable decision to send Ezi to the bench and bring in TC, which stalled Ezi's development. Valid points.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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Location: Bing-town
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| Posted: 02/08/23 4:07 pm ::: |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're in the lottery if you miss the playoffs, and ping pong balls are decided by 2 year aggregate record.
There was speculation that Bird and Stewart played a part in getting Tina Charles here and having her start.
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so-many-pickles
Joined: 17 May 2018
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/08/23 5:04 pm ::: |
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signing someone who should’ve been outta the league years ago is not how i wanted us to be bad
PG: Whitcomb/YTurner
SG: Loyd/Guirantes
SF: Nurse/KCharles
PF: Magbegor
C: Russell/Plaisance
not nearly enough youth yet, which makes me uneasy
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12537
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 02/08/23 5:42 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
signing someone who should’ve been outta the league years ago is not how i wanted us to be bad
PG: Whitcomb/YTurner
SG: Loyd/Guirantes
SF: Nurse/KCharles
PF: Magbegor
C: Russell/Plaisance
not nearly enough youth yet, which makes me uneasy |
It looks like an expansion team , but on the bright side 2025 PP's could be in abundance.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 02/08/23 6:34 pm ::: |
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| So speaks someone too young to remember what an expansion roster looks like... |
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/08/23 6:46 pm ::: |
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if Loyd weren't still on the roster, it'd sorta look a bit modern-day expansion level imo
regardless, it's pretty ugly-looking in comparison to the other 11 rosters, including the ones who currently have fewer signed players than we do lmfao
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8860
Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: 02/09/23 11:47 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
signing someone who should’ve been outta the league years ago is not how i wanted us to be bad
PG: Whitcomb/YTurner
SG: Loyd/Guirantes
SF: Nurse/KCharles
PF: Magbegor
C: Russell/Plaisance
not nearly enough youth yet, which makes me uneasy |
Is Gabby still unsigned?
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Mixolydian
Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 153
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: 02/09/23 2:27 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| not nearly enough youth yet, which makes me uneasy |
Agree 100%. If we're rebuilding, which we kinda have to at this point, I'd much rather watch a team made up of young, raw, developing talent then something like this.
Like, sure, let's be bad and go for picks, but let's see if we can't find/polish some diamonds in the rough while we're at it.
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