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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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 Posted: 02/09/23 11:23 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
| mercfan wrote: |
Sydney Wiese to Phoenix.
Jennie Simms, Sam Thomas, Gustafson are back.
This could be a rough year unless there’s a secret trade in the works involving SDS.
Wiese/Peddy???
Taurasi/Simms
Cunningham/DeShields/Thomas
Turner
Griner/Gustafson
Man I really want to see DT go out a contender. If SDS is back and everyone is at full strength it’s actually not that bad. I’m just not too optimistic at the moment.
One thing I know for sure is that Turner is much more impactful with BG on the court. |
Taurasi is on record saying she isn't taking less money, which makes trading Skylar a moot point anyway. Also said playing until 42 for the Olympics is something on her radar. Incredibly selfish from a contractual standpoint, because at this moment she is not a max player. Don't really see the point of Thomas or Simms. If Wiese sticks, she seems to be a good lockerroom piece, something this roster desperately needs. |
So the expectation is now that after negotiating a higher salary, women simply take less for the good of the team?
Obviously if players want to ring chase and don’t care, that’s on them. But that can not be the standard,
Also, the amount of disrespect shown to arguably the best women’s player ever is ridiculous. No one would ever suggest MJ or Lebron or Kareem “take less money because they aren’t worth it” (let’s be real, Diana has been underpaid her whole career), or that they shouldn’t have career aspirations because they were older players. |
This might be the only time I've ever mostly agreed with you on one of your DT rants. I would also point out that she's really not playing at a supermax level anymore but still... it's DT.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/10/23 12:11 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
So the expectation is now that after negotiating a higher salary, women simply take less for the good of the team?
Obviously if players want to ring chase and don’t care, that’s on them. But that can not be the standard,
Also, the amount of disrespect shown to arguably the best women’s player ever is ridiculous. No one would ever suggest MJ or Lebron or Kareem “take less money because they aren’t worth it” (let’s be real, Diana has been underpaid her whole career), or that they shouldn’t have career aspirations because they were older players. |
Dear mercfan3: Please know that one elderly male New York Liberty fan greatly appreciates the perspective you're raising here. Understandably, we often focus on the blatant sexism of the sports world. But your critique here of the more subtle sexism of the sports world is just as valid.
Diana Taurasi would not be one of my top candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize. But neither would Michael Jordan or many other famous male athletes. I love the way you address the sexist double standards of our culture.
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 1466
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| Posted: 02/10/23 10:20 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
| mercfan wrote: |
Sydney Wiese to Phoenix.
Jennie Simms, Sam Thomas, Gustafson are back.
This could be a rough year unless there’s a secret trade in the works involving SDS.
Wiese/Peddy???
Taurasi/Simms
Cunningham/DeShields/Thomas
Turner
Griner/Gustafson
Man I really want to see DT go out a contender. If SDS is back and everyone is at full strength it’s actually not that bad. I’m just not too optimistic at the moment.
One thing I know for sure is that Turner is much more impactful with BG on the court. |
Taurasi is on record saying she isn't taking less money, which makes trading Skylar a moot point anyway. Also said playing until 42 for the Olympics is something on her radar. Incredibly selfish from a contractual standpoint, because at this moment she is not a max player. Don't really see the point of Thomas or Simms. If Wiese sticks, she seems to be a good lockerroom piece, something this roster desperately needs. |
So the expectation is now that after negotiating a higher salary, women simply take less for the good of the team?
Obviously if players want to ring chase and don’t care, that’s on them. But that can not be the standard,
Also, the amount of disrespect shown to arguably the best women’s player ever is ridiculous. No one would ever suggest MJ or Lebron or Kareem “take less money because they aren’t worth it” (let’s be real, Diana has been underpaid her whole career), or that they shouldn’t have career aspirations because they were older players. |
The expectation is that you are paid based on your level of play. She is not a max player, and it's clear the organization does not feel she is one either. Which is why she felt the need to share this with the media lol. If she feels she is a max player, then let her go see how many teams are willing to pay her that. You cannot say you are wanting to win another championship then turn around and say you want the most money. Why? Because she is not deserving of a max contract at this point and PHX will be in an awful position moving forward with SDS still on the books for another year. It is what it is.
Last edited by TotalCardinalMove on 02/10/23 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 1466
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| Posted: 02/10/23 10:21 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
| mercfan wrote: |
Sydney Wiese to Phoenix.
Jennie Simms, Sam Thomas, Gustafson are back.
This could be a rough year unless there’s a secret trade in the works involving SDS.
Wiese/Peddy???
Taurasi/Simms
Cunningham/DeShields/Thomas
Turner
Griner/Gustafson
Man I really want to see DT go out a contender. If SDS is back and everyone is at full strength it’s actually not that bad. I’m just not too optimistic at the moment.
One thing I know for sure is that Turner is much more impactful with BG on the court. |
Taurasi is on record saying she isn't taking less money, which makes trading Skylar a moot point anyway. Also said playing until 42 for the Olympics is something on her radar. Incredibly selfish from a contractual standpoint, because at this moment she is not a max player. Don't really see the point of Thomas or Simms. If Wiese sticks, she seems to be a good lockerroom piece, something this roster desperately needs. |
So the expectation is now that after negotiating a higher salary, women simply take less for the good of the team?
Obviously if players want to ring chase and don’t care, that’s on them. But that can not be the standard,
Also, the amount of disrespect shown to arguably the best women’s player ever is ridiculous. No one would ever suggest MJ or Lebron or Kareem “take less money because they aren’t worth it” (let’s be real, Diana has been underpaid her whole career), or that they shouldn’t have career aspirations because they were older players. |
I'd add, Phoenix has to start being smarter with contracts and FO decisions. Yes, it is DT. But the FO has to consider the future and well-being of the business. While your overall point is well-taken, Diana has to be realistic with her contributions AND the amount of money she is asking for. She clearly isn't serious about winning if she thinks she should be getting the max. Skylar Diggins-Smith seems to want out, and we were fortunate the two best younger players we do have were willing to come back. At some point Phoenix has to decide if it is rebuilding or trying to compete. Giving Diana the max does not help the team go in either direction based on what other teams have done.
This is where the point about LeBron and MJ falls flat. Nobody would ask LeBron for less because he is STILL playing at an elite level consistently and has been available to play in general. At the time of his retirement, MJ was STILL playing at a high level. MJ was coming off three consecutive FMVPs  So their level of play warrants it. To be frank, Diana has not been doing that. She has been good, but she has not been the best player on the team for a couple of seasons now. It's apparent the FO has doubts about giving her that kind of multi-year deal, and it's for good reason. At the moment, Phoenix has no direction so I fully understand the disconnect between the two.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 02/10/23 11:23 am ::: |
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Re: DT. There's gotta be a middle ground between giving her the max/supermax and expecting her to be willing to take next to nothing the way Bird and Charles did last season, and now Parker is sort of doing this season (though not quite as extreme as taking the vet minimum.)
Also:
When is BG going to sign?
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Davis4632
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Iluvacc
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WfanFrJmp
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: 02/18/23 1:49 pm ::: |
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| Is it accurate to say that Phoenix now has to move Skylar if they want to max Griner in order to get 11 players under the cap? This assumes that there is not an intent to move any of their other contracted players.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/18/23 2:00 pm ::: |
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| perhaps Turner is conventionally tradable if a Diggins dump proves too costly
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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WfanFrJmp
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/18/23 7:00 pm ::: |
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| Is the WNBA a hard cap?
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 02/18/23 8:25 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Is the WNBA a hard cap? |
yes
https://herhoopstats.com/wnba_cba_salary_cap_explained
| Quote: |
| The WNBA is different from most other professional sports leagues in the US in that the salary cap is a hard cap with very little wiggle room. The only way that a team can go above the salary cap during the regular season is if the league has granted them hardship or emergency hardship exceptions. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/18/23 9:15 pm ::: |
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Although we now have also seen (or will see) exceptions for when players are unlawfully detained by a foreign government, and when they're pregnant. I guess we should update that.
But yeah, mostly hard. So to speak. |
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/18/23 9:38 pm ::: |
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So Phoenix clearly has no interest in winning this season..or next. Oh, and they're also pretty transparently trying to dump Skylar. Not that any teams are lining up to take on a contract of a player unlikely to play this season.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 02/18/23 11:18 pm ::: |
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| I'm gonna write more about it next week, but to me the contracts revealed today make it significantly more likely that Diggins-Smith will still be on the Mercury at the start of the 2023 season. |
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 02/18/23 11:43 pm ::: |
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yeah my uneducated guess is they couldn't get anyone to take Diggins-Smith's max contract with only one year left when she might not be able to play for some, most or all of the season. Diggins-Smith gets max no matter what and is out of contract after this year so why give up assets when you can just sign her next season (I was hoping LA might take a swing for something like Carter and maternity player who certainly won't be available in KLS but they haven't yet).
They probably gave Griner as much as they could with a commitment to maxing her out for as many years as she likes after this season and Diggins-Smith is off the books. If Griner wants to return. (I am a little surprised unless this is illegal that they didn't just give her a multi year deal 165k this season max the following three but who knows?)
ATM it is looking pretty cut and dry
Jefferson/(Diggins-Smith)
Taurasi/Weise/J. Simms
Cunningham/Thomas
Turner/Onyenwere
Griner/Gustafson
future vet minimum Peddy looking to push Weise or Gustafson off the board
possible other vet minimums still out there
O. Sims, R, Banham, B. Hartley if healthy, Lavender, Kar. Samuelson, R. Gray, K. Davis
and Simms and Thomas have to survive past some 2nd and 3rd round picks and the waiver wire
some minimums still out there or on another teams bubble
Cubaj, Cunane, Shook, whoever gets cut between Jaz Jones and Westbrook, Sjerven, Slocum, Benzan, Odom, Walker,
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/19/23 12:13 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| (I am a little surprised unless this is illegal that they didn't just give her a multi year deal 165k this season max the following three but who knows?) |
Yeah, you've answered your own question there - you can't do that. Salary in a multi-year contract can only go up or down from one year to the next by a max of 3% of the the first-year number. So with a first year of $165,100, the max for following years would be 170,053, then 175,006, then 179,959. Otherwise I think we'd have seen several deals this offseason where players took the discount this year to make things fit, then leapt upwards in Year 2. |
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: 02/19/23 5:39 am ::: |
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| Feels like Shay Peddy should be too expensive for one of those final slots with Phoenix. I would think she could be a great option for the Storm who would presumably be able to overpay her for a year or two without too much complication.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 02/19/23 10:09 am ::: |
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| Peddy already announced as signing a 'training camp contract', so she'd fit. Question is health. |
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eyevolley4
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| Posted: 02/19/23 10:30 am ::: |
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| I thought I had seen that. I guess I’m just shocked she couldn’t find anything better as an RFA.
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