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Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 9:46 pm    ::: Phoenix Mercury 2023 Reply Reply with quote

PHO in 2022: Just when you thought the year couldn't get any worse... it got worse. Confused

But on the bright side... Well, I don't know how to finish that sentence.. Shocked


I'll say this though.. I'm very happy with the development of Shey, Sophie and DD
Idea



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ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Big questions:

Will the organization give Nygaard a 2nd year?

Will SDS force, (or request) a trade?

Will DT retire?

If they keep the team as is... would they be able to sign another capable big at the same money TC was making in order to make the cap?

Will Phx get rid of their shady social media intern?

Laughing



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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The big one:
Will BG be back and able to play? If so, I think DT will play one more year. If not, not. But that is pure speculation.


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18013
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So you’re the Phoenix Mercury. You’re an original franchise and you’ve got three titles to your name. You have, like, expectations and shit, just in general.

Your star center is currently the center of a geopolitical shitstorm.

Your star shooting guard has been in the league longer than two franchises and four cities, is older than multiple coaches, and is starting to show it.

Your star point guard is, um, not here. Like, literally. But may also have not been present and accounted for spiritually as well. Except for the recorded exchange of pleasantries with the aforementioned shooting guard.

Your current starting center, who should have been your starting power forward, but see above re: geopolitical shitstorm, is a lovely young woman who appears to have forgotten how to offense.

Your current starting power forward is... polarizing.

Your starting small forward is not all that far off from having to relearn how to walk. Which is amazing, but by the same token, there are times when maybe she came back too fast from that experience?

Your current bench is not relevant to discussion of 2023 because half of them are hardship replacements, one of them is the WNBA’s semi-official universal adapter, one somehow garnered the world’s weirdest All-Rookie vote, and the last is Megan Gustafson. And to be fair to Gustafson, if the aforementioned geopolitical shitstorm doesn’t get sorted out, she will be relevant to discussion of 2023.

Your first round draft pick is in Chicago.

For the upcoming offseason, I would recommend not further angering any more gods, goddesses, or genderless divine forces. Only when the lingering specter of further divine wrath is eliminated should a full headcount be made and free agency decisions addressed.



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TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m thinking one of the biggest priorities is making sure Cunningham is signed back at all costs. I also would think Kia Nurse is likely going to be brought back as well. I for one think Gustafson has absolutely earned a spot on next year’s roster. She improved defensively and with an off-season dedicated to working even more on what our system asks will be even more beneficial.

I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.

With all the bad luck we’ve had with injuries, it is a must we actually build a roster of 12 that can at least contribute something in case of emergency.

I’d imagine if Diana is on board to return we would do everything imaginable to revamp the roster. I don’t think it’s possible but Marina Mabrey and Azura Stevens are two options I’d absolutely love to add. I don’t see Nneka being an option for us.


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Queens


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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
I don’t think it’s possible but Marina Mabrey and Azura Stevens are two options I’d absolutely love to add. I don’t see Nneka being an option for us.


I’m going to bring up the same question that Rebecca Lobo asked, and a codicil of my own.

1) who wins a completed game of one-on-one between Mabrey and Cunningham?

2) who wins the inevitable fight that would prevent 1) from ever being answered?



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Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:
I don’t think it’s possible but Marina Mabrey and Azura Stevens are two options I’d absolutely love to add. I don’t see Nneka being an option for us.


I’m going to bring up the same question that Rebecca Lobo asked, and a codicil of my own.

1) who wins a completed game of one-on-one between Mabrey and Cunningham?

2) who wins the inevitable fight that would prevent 1) from ever being answered?


Laughing Laughing Laughing

The Wings would be foolish to let Mabrey go.


Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167



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PostPosted: 08/20/22 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
I’m thinking one of the biggest priorities is making sure Cunningham is signed back at all costs. I also would think Kia Nurse is likely going to be brought back as well. I for one think Gustafson has absolutely earned a spot on next year’s roster. She improved defensively and with an off-season dedicated to working even more on what our system asks will be even more beneficial.

I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.

With all the bad luck we’ve had with injuries, it is a must we actually build a roster of 12 that can at least contribute something in case of emergency.

I’d imagine if Diana is on board to return we would do everything imaginable to revamp the roster. I don’t think it’s possible but Marina Mabrey and Azura Stevens are two options I’d absolutely love to add. I don’t see Nneka being an option for us.


What options do they possess to properly revamp this roster? No lottery or worthwhile draft picks. I actually think Skylar wouldn't be opposed to be anywhere else rather than Phoenix, especially if Nygaard is still "in charge".

Really their greatest success rests on BG coming back home.


TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 08/20/22 11:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:
I’m thinking one of the biggest priorities is making sure Cunningham is signed back at all costs. I also would think Kia Nurse is likely going to be brought back as well. I for one think Gustafson has absolutely earned a spot on next year’s roster. She improved defensively and with an off-season dedicated to working even more on what our system asks will be even more beneficial.

I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.

With all the bad luck we’ve had with injuries, it is a must we actually build a roster of 12 that can at least contribute something in case of emergency.

I’d imagine if Diana is on board to return we would do everything imaginable to revamp the roster. I don’t think it’s possible but Marina Mabrey and Azura Stevens are two options I’d absolutely love to add. I don’t see Nneka being an option for us.


What options do they possess to properly revamp this roster? No lottery or worthwhile draft picks. I actually think Skylar wouldn't be opposed to be anywhere else rather than Phoenix, especially if Nygaard is still "in charge".

Really their greatest success rests on BG coming back home.


Free agency and/or trades. Bri Jones, the Ogwumike sisters, and Azura are all unrestricted FA according to the list Richey put out. Any of those would be massive boosts. Mabrey is a RFA and I doubt Dallas would let her go, but we will have loads of cap space so why not throw a max deal and see if they match?

There’s also some solid rotational pieces (Talbot, JLav, etc.) that would be upgrades over what’s on our bench currently like Simms and Thomas. If Stewie leaves Seattle now that Sue is officially done, some of those pieces on that roster could potentially be had.


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1827



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PostPosted: 08/21/22 7:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm disappointed with the regression of Turner. She was amazing in the Wubble and last year. I guess playing without a dominant big, she wasn't given as much freedom to cut but damn, I expected more from her this year.

Phoenix gets a mulligan this year. So much went wrong that was out of their control. Sadly, they bet the farm on this year to acquire Charles and DeShields. They don't have a draft pick in sight and haven't really drafter much in the last few years anyway.

I have a hard time seeing DT go out like this. I think she's waiting to see if BG is able to come back. Honestly, even if BG were home tomorrow, I can't even begin to imagine when, if ever, she would be ready to play basketball again.

There is a big possibility that Phoenix is in for a long, harsh rebuild. I'd be asking Diana what she wants. They may be able to try and have a farewell season for her with some decent roleplayers around her. If she retires, I'd be having a conversation with SDS about being the future and the #1. Or I'd be trading her and DeShields for as many picks as possible and sign some decent vets.


mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19725



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PostPosted: 08/21/22 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
I'm disappointed with the regression of Turner. She was amazing in the Wubble and last year. I guess playing without a dominant big, she wasn't given as much freedom to cut but damn, I expected more from her this year.

Phoenix gets a mulligan this year. So much went wrong that was out of their control. Sadly, they bet the farm on this year to acquire Charles and DeShields. They don't have a draft pick in sight and haven't really drafter much in the last few years anyway.

I have a hard time seeing DT go out like this. I think she's waiting to see if BG is able to come back. Honestly, even if BG were home tomorrow, I can't even begin to imagine when, if ever, she would be ready to play basketball again.

There is a big possibility that Phoenix is in for a long, harsh rebuild. I'd be asking Diana what she wants. They may be able to try and have a farewell season for her with some decent roleplayers around her. If she retires, I'd be having a conversation with SDS about being the future and the #1. Or I'd be trading her and DeShields for as many picks as possible and sign some decent vets.


DT is a free agent too.

If Phoenix can’t get it’s shit together and it doesn’t appear Griner will be here or ready, and Skylar wants out..does she do a farewell tour on another team?

She’d actually be a pretty good fit for CT. Sandy is in New York. LA, with the Ogumikes are a lot closer than Phoenix.

It would be very unlike DT to do this, but everything she’s been loyal to has changed anyway. And it sure seemed to me that DT is far more team Sky than team coach and Gm, so if Brit isn’t there..and Sky isn’t there..and Nygaard is..



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scullyfu



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8851
Location: Niagara Falls


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PostPosted: 08/21/22 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When mentioning Nneka, you have to factor in Chiney’s salary, too. They are a package deal. Unless Cheney decides to quit the W & go all out with her ESPN work.



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johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 08/21/22 9:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
I'm disappointed with the regression of Turner. She was amazing in the Wubble and last year. I guess playing without a dominant big, she wasn't given as much freedom to cut but damn, I expected more from her this year.

Phoenix gets a mulligan this year. So much went wrong that was out of their control. Sadly, they bet the farm on this year to acquire Charles and DeShields. They don't have a draft pick in sight and haven't really drafter much in the last few years anyway.

I have a hard time seeing DT go out like this. I think she's waiting to see if BG is able to come back. Honestly, even if BG were home tomorrow, I can't even begin to imagine when, if ever, she would be ready to play basketball again.

There is a big possibility that Phoenix is in for a long, harsh rebuild. I'd be asking Diana what she wants. They may be able to try and have a farewell season for her with some decent roleplayers around her. If she retires, I'd be having a conversation with SDS about being the future and the #1. Or I'd be trading her and DeShields for as many picks as possible and sign some decent vets.


DT is a free agent too.

If Phoenix can’t get it’s shit together and it doesn’t appear Griner will be here or ready, and Skylar wants out..does she do a farewell tour on another team?

She’d actually be a pretty good fit for CT. Sandy is in New York. LA, with the Ogumikes are a lot closer than Phoenix.

It would be very unlike DT to do this, but everything she’s been loyal to has changed anyway. And it sure seemed to me that DT is far more team Sky than team coach and Gm, so if Brit isn’t there..and Sky isn’t there..and Nygaard is..


I find it unlikely she would go elsewhere for a final year, but not outside of the realm of possibility. She has said in the past that LA is a team she would be interested in but I can't imagine that would be a much better option for her. Her championship window is closed shut. This year was the last push and circumstances didn't allow for an honest go of it.

Diana is in a big predicament. This is probably not how she wants to go out but next season may not be much more dignified than this one, so what is she to do?


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32326



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PostPosted: 08/21/22 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
When mentioning Nneka, you have to factor in Chiney’s salary, too. They are a package deal. Unless Cheney decides to quit the W & go all out with her ESPN work.


That's just supposition. I doubt it's true. It might be a bonus in Nneka's mind, but I doubt it's a requirement.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32326



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PostPosted: 08/21/22 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
I Honestly, even if BG were home tomorrow, I can't even begin to imagine when, if ever, she would be ready to play basketball again.



my thought too. Recovering emotion/psychologically will be as big or bigger than the physical. But I think if DT comes back, she will be an important person in getting BG back on the court. [all assuming they do manage an exchange reasonably soon]


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 08/21/22 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
When mentioning Nneka, you have to factor in Chiney’s salary, too. They are a package deal. Unless Chiney decides to quit the W & go all out with her ESPN work.


Sounds like Nneka is gonna have a big input into the roster makeup. She can probably make it a condition for her return.



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 08/21/22 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m still scratching my head over the lack of offense from Brianna Turner, especially as the injuries and absences began to pile up. Bizarre. Ya need to take more than three shots….


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16346
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 08/21/22 9:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:


I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.


As a Fever fan ... Hard. Fucking. Pass.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 08/21/22 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:


I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.


As a Fever fan ... Hard. Fucking. Pass.


Assuming SDS wants out

I've got LA for Carter, KLS and pick 14
(I originally thought maybe a sign and trade for N. Ogwumike but it sounds like Nneka is happy in LA)
or
Atl for McDonald, pick 8 (or maybe pick 3 or 4 instead depending on how the lottery goes), and pick 15
or
Minn for Powers and pick 11 (or maybe pick 4 instead depending on how the lottery goes)

both Atl and Minny have one lottery pick and one later first round pick so only including one first rounder in the trade ideas above

I am assuming people will hate on these trades and it will be people from PX and the teams involved but oh well


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN


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PostPosted: 08/21/22 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ok, my crazy scenario:

1. Allie Q retires
2. Sloot takes over at PG in Seattle
3. Parker retires (maybe)
...there is now room in the cap in CHI to absorb SDS salary.
4. Wade can handle big egos.
5. SDS may be happier playing 90 minutes from hometown, and with the dynamic Kah.

6. Chicago sends picks to Phx, and other stuff.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 08/22/22 6:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mercury GM Jim Pitman says Phoenix expects to have Skylar Diggins-Smith back next season

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/34439134/mercury-gm-jim-pittman-says-phoenix-expects-skylar-diggins-smith-back-next-season

Quote:
She's obviously not with us for personal reasons that I really can't talk about, but she is under contract, so, yes.



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/22/22 7:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
So you’re the Phoenix Mercury. You’re an original franchise and you’ve got three titles to your name. You have, like, expectations and shit, just in general.

Your star center is currently the center of a geopolitical shitstorm.

Your star shooting guard has been in the league longer than two franchises and four cities, is older than multiple coaches, and is starting to show it.

Your star point guard is, um, not here. Like, literally. But may also have not been present and accounted for spiritually as well. Except for the recorded exchange of pleasantries with the aforementioned shooting guard.

Your current starting center, who should have been your starting power forward, but see above re: geopolitical shitstorm, is a lovely young woman who appears to have forgotten how to offense.

Your current starting power forward is... polarizing.

Your starting small forward is not all that far off from having to relearn how to walk. Which is amazing, but by the same token, there are times when maybe she came back too fast from that experience?

Your current bench is not relevant to discussion of 2023 because half of them are hardship replacements, one of them is the WNBA’s semi-official universal adapter, one somehow garnered the world’s weirdest All-Rookie vote, and the last is Megan Gustafson. And to be fair to Gustafson, if the aforementioned geopolitical shitstorm doesn’t get sorted out, she will be relevant to discussion of 2023.

Your first round draft pick is in Chicago.

For the upcoming offseason, I would recommend not further angering any more gods, goddesses, or genderless divine forces. Only when the lingering specter of further divine wrath is eliminated should a full headcount be made and free agency decisions addressed.


The starting center who is really a PF didn't forget how to offense, she never knew how to offense. BG just hid her ineptness on that end of the floor.

And...I don't think DT goes out like this, no matter what happens with BG. And yes, I have put full trust in Dennis Rodman.


Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167



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PostPosted: 08/22/22 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Mercury GM Jim Pitman says Phoenix expects to have Skylar Diggins-Smith back next season

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/34439134/mercury-gm-jim-pittman-says-phoenix-expects-skylar-diggins-smith-back-next-season

Quote:
She's obviously not with us for personal reasons that I really can't talk about, but she is under contract, so, yes.


Well at least he didn’t say things are up in the air, so there’s that for Phoenix. Seriously though, I hope everything is ok with her, the whole thing with not really talking about why she’s out (which is completely understand privacy reasons) deleting her Twitter page and not even showing up for her Olympic ring ceremony (her mother accepted on her behalf) I’m a little concerned. 🙏🏽


Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167



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PostPosted: 08/22/22 8:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Queenie wrote:
So you’re the Phoenix Mercury. You’re an original franchise and you’ve got three titles to your name. You have, like, expectations and shit, just in general.

Your star center is currently the center of a geopolitical shitstorm.

Your star shooting guard has been in the league longer than two franchises and four cities, is older than multiple coaches, and is starting to show it.

Your star point guard is, um, not here. Like, literally. But may also have not been present and accounted for spiritually as well. Except for the recorded exchange of pleasantries with the aforementioned shooting guard.

Your current starting center, who should have been your starting power forward, but see above re: geopolitical shitstorm, is a lovely young woman who appears to have forgotten how to offense.

Your current starting power forward is... polarizing.

Your starting small forward is not all that far off from having to relearn how to walk. Which is amazing, but by the same token, there are times when maybe she came back too fast from that experience?

Your current bench is not relevant to discussion of 2023 because half of them are hardship replacements, one of them is the WNBA’s semi-official universal adapter, one somehow garnered the world’s weirdest All-Rookie vote, and the last is Megan Gustafson. And to be fair to Gustafson, if the aforementioned geopolitical shitstorm doesn’t get sorted out, she will be relevant to discussion of 2023.

Your first round draft pick is in Chicago.

For the upcoming offseason, I would recommend not further angering any more gods, goddesses, or genderless divine forces. Only when the lingering specter of further divine wrath is eliminated should a full headcount be made and free agency decisions addressed.


The starting center who is really a PF didn't forget how to offense, she never knew how to offense. BG just hid her ineptness on that end of the floor.

And...I don't think DT goes out like this, no matter what happens with BG. And yes, I have put full trust in Dennis Rodman.


On paper you would think BG and Turner would not work well together since neither has much of a perimeter game that other posts have like Stewart, Parker, Wilson, Nneka etc., but they complemented each other beautifully and did not get in each other’s way.

I too hope Rodman can work some magic!


Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167



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PostPosted: 08/22/22 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:


I think the other is seeing what Skylar is looking to do. I wouldn’t be opposed to shipping her to Indiana for something like Kelsey Mitchell and Lexie Hull in return. Skylar, on the other hand, would probably oppose but I can’t think of too many other realistic trade partners.


As much as a train wreck they were this year, the Merc were still better than the Fever 🥴 so I don’t think SDS would be on board for an even worse team.


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