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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 04/27/23 9:07 pm ::: 2023 WNBA Training Camp Roster Breakdowns |
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Feels like I write this article every year, so it may seem familiar. Breakdowns of every roster as they currently stand, how many players each team can keep under the cap, who fits and who doesn't, where the boster battles are, yadda yadda yadda. With more pregnancy discusssion than I ever really want to write.
https://herhoopstats.substack.com/p/2023-wnba-roster-breakdowns-training-camp |
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undersized_post
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| Posted: 04/28/23 1:04 pm ::: |
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"Ruthy Hebard’s $83,194 is guaranteed by virtue of the altered rules for fourth-year options on rookie-scale deals. They could cut her, pay the money and still keep a legal 11-player roster, but that probably isn’t likely."
Does Hebard having just given birth affect this?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/28/23 1:16 pm ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
"Ruthy Hebard’s $83,194 is guaranteed by virtue of the altered rules for fourth-year options on rookie-scale deals. They could cut her, pay the money and still keep a legal 11-player roster, but that probably isn’t likely."
Does Hebard having just given birth affect this? |
Probably makes it even less likely that she's getting cut. On the roster, she'd make the Sky eligible for the pregnancy replacement player I talk about elsewhere in the article. If they cut her, they'd be paying her the same money, and presumably wouldn't be eligible for the replacement. |
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/28/23 4:33 pm ::: |
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| thanks very much for this breakdown. it's really really helpful in trying to make sense of the morass.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 04/29/23 3:21 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
"Ruthy Hebard’s $83,194 is guaranteed by virtue of the altered rules for fourth-year options on rookie-scale deals. They could cut her, pay the money and still keep a legal 11-player roster, but that probably isn’t likely."
Does Hebard having just given birth affect this? |
Probably makes it even less likely that she's getting cut. On the roster, she'd make the Sky eligible for the pregnancy replacement player I talk about elsewhere in the article. If they cut her, they'd be paying her the same money, and presumably wouldn't be eligible for the replacement. |
So when did Ruthy announce that she was pregnant? For her to have a baby now means she became pregnant late last year. This is brand new to me. 🤨
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 04/29/23 5:40 pm ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
"Ruthy Hebard’s $83,194 is guaranteed by virtue of the altered rules for fourth-year options on rookie-scale deals. They could cut her, pay the money and still keep a legal 11-player roster, but that probably isn’t likely."
Does Hebard having just given birth affect this? |
Probably makes it even less likely that she's getting cut. On the roster, she'd make the Sky eligible for the pregnancy replacement player I talk about elsewhere in the article. If they cut her, they'd be paying her the same money, and presumably wouldn't be eligible for the replacement. |
So when did Ruthy announce that she was pregnant? For her to have a baby now means she became pregnant late last year. This is brand new to me. 🤨 |
I thought this was common knowledge or maybe it was just hinted at pretty obviously. She last played for her Hungarian team at the end of January and then the formal announcement that she would not be able to play the rest of their season came a week and a half later. |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 04/29/23 7:33 pm ::: |
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From the article:
| Quote: |
| (as with Alexis Morris in Connecticut, Tsineke carrying a second-round pick salary makes the difference). Any other permutation from their camp roster works. |
Can anyone explain to me what that means? I don't follow the draft all that much, so I'm thinking it implies a pay differential for a rookie based on what round they're drafted....?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/29/23 7:59 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
From the article:
| Quote: |
| (as with Alexis Morris in Connecticut, Tsineke carrying a second-round pick salary makes the difference). Any other permutation from their camp roster works. |
Can anyone explain to me what that means? I don't follow the draft all that much, so I'm thinking it implies a pay differential for a rookie based on what round they're drafted....? |
It's pretty much explained if you scroll back up the article and read the Connecticut section, but you've basically got it already. There are different rookie-scale pay scales dependent on where you're drafted. Picks 1-4 get the most, 5-8 a bit less, 9-12 a bit less than that. Then all the second-rounders get the same as each other (again a bit less than 9-12), and all the third-rounders get the absolute base minimum.
So the problem with both Morris in Connecticut and Tsineke in Washington is that they were drafted in the second round, so if they make the team would be scheduled to make $65,290 this season. The base minimum is $62,285. So in certain specific situations, that $3,005 difference would take the team over the cap, and therefore Morris/Tsineke couldn't make the team in those scenarios. |
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Howee
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/30/23 2:40 am ::: |
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Jumping off of Richyyy's great article I am going to try and predict all rosters no equivocating (maybe with some fun extra's here and there)
Atl
D-Rob/McDonald
A. Gray/AD
R. Howard/H. Jones/Coffey
Billings/Hillmon/Amihere
Parker/Rupert*
If Rupert doesn't show up I give the edge to Cubaj over Coates
Chicago
Mabrey/Evans
C. Williams/*
Copper/Gardner
Harrison/Smith
E. Will/Li Yueru/Hebard**
* I could see someone from the waiver wire beat out the current contenders
** If there is a maternity replacement for Hebard there should be a bunch of names on the waiver wire (Could also see T. Charles in this spot)
Conn
Hiedeman/Harris/Morris
Hayes/Carrington
Bonner/Allen
A. Thomas/L. Cox
B. Jones/Nelson-Ododa
with Bonner and Allen able to play some minutes at the 4 Conn makes the risky decision go with 4 posts and A. Morris beats out Clouden for the last spot. I feel a little iffy about Cox but think she gets the last post spot over Herbert-Harrigan
Dallas
forgive my positioning but I refuse to bring Deshields off the bench
Ogunbowale/Dangerfield
Deshields/Burton
Sabally/Lopez-Senechel/Joens
Howard/Siegrist
McCowan/Kuier/Collier
my two controversial calls Collier beats out Brown and Joens beats out Meyers my apologies to the Dallas fans that will hate these calls I promise it is just an opinion my thought process Dallas isn't quite ready to give up on a #1 pick and Brown hasn't done quite enough to be the shoe in people think she is and I think one characteristic that people over look in A. Joens is her competitive spirit and for lack of a better word ego and I don't think she will go down without a fight, and that might be enough to get her through. My third slightly less controversial opinion is Dangerfield was brought in for a real I don't even think she is on the bubble (her above vet minimum contract is one of the reasons and how well she complemented Ionescu in a similar role to how she will play with Arike is another) but again could be wrong.
Indy
Wheeler/Henderson/Berger
K. Mitchell/Wallace
Vivians/Hull
N. Smith/Cannon
Boston/Egbo/Hatar
Hull beats out Davis for the back up SF spot. Berger is kept based on potential and maybe some home town box office appeal. The three centers of Boston, Egbo and Hatar might lead to some Experimenting with Boston at the 4 on occasion.
LV
C. Gray/Colson
Plum/R. Williams
J. Young/Clark/Bell
Wilson/George
Parker/Stokes
Going for a ship Colson wins the back court spot with experience, Bell like Hull in Indy hangs on because of growth and exposure during Athletes Unlimited.
LA
J. Thomas/Clarendon
Brown/Cooke
Hamby/Bradford/KLS*
Stevens/Gray
N. Ogwumike/C. Ogwumike
Clarendon beats out Canada Miller likes PGs with a 3 point shot but
R. Gray beats out Holmes for final post spot
Bradford's arrival knocks out Burrell
I don't like Yang Liwei missing out, if the math works for a 12th player I give it to her if not I can't see who gets cut ahead of her could be the *replacement player for KLS
More bizarre idea is Yang Liwei gets 11th spot over R. Gray and yes again Maybe T. Charles is brought in as the replacement player for KLS (Stevens, Charles, Nneka and Chiney is a pretty formidable post rotation and I do believe LA and Miller are in it to win it)
Minny
Allen
McBride/T. Mitchell/Carelton
Powers/Miller
N. Collier/Milic
Sheppard/Dantas/Achonwa *
It was hard to cut Juhasz, if Dantas doesn't show Juhasz is in, Juhasz also seems like the easiest fit as Achonwa's maternity replacement but, broken record number one this could also be an interesting place for T. Charles to show up, she does have experience with Reeve on the National team but but,
the * maternity replacement really should be a lead guard (unless we think one of McBride, Mitchell or Powers could end up splitting PG minutes with L. Allen) Banham seems like a natural fit having been there done that in Minny before but is this a place for someone to take a chance on C. Carter?
NY
(this one hurts barring unexpected pre-season trades) I have
Sloot/Prince
Ionescu/Johannes
Laney/Willoughby
Stewart/Thorton
J. Jones/Dolson/Han Xu
I would keep Richards over Prince but I don't think that will be what happens. And with 8 players on guaranteed money and Johannes (and even if Johannes shows up late she has to be on the opening day roster to play later in the season so no place holders like in years past) and Han Xu are on bare minimum contracts and are very much in the teams plans there is only one spot left. I have it going to Prince championship contending team prize experience over potential and I think her prior teammate-ship with Stewart was another reason she was brought in. Unfortunately this means cutting not only Richards but also N. Sabally and Kone without ever getting to see them in a Liberty uniform. The good news for Kone and Sabally there will be teams looking to pick up young posts Seattle, PX, and Chicago all seem like possibilities IMO
PX
Jefferson/SDS*
Taurasi/Simms
Cunningham/Thomas
Turner/Onyenwere/**
Griner/Gustafson
If SDS isn't ready at the beginning of the season and needs a maternity replacement I think the guard will come from the waiver wire This could be a nice landing spot for Richards or Canada, Westbrook if she is cut by Washington and it also seems like the perfect non-committal opportunity to bring in you guessed it C. Carter.
** It terms of the 11th roster spot if it is a post I could see Shook making it but my guess is this will be a waiver wire, you have Kone and/or Sabally coming out of NY, Brown or Collier coming out of Dallas, Juhasz might be out in Minny?
Seattle
Whitcomb/Melborne
Loyd/Guirantes/Turner
Nurse/Horston
Magbegor/Plaisance/*
Russell/Fankam Mendjiadeu
Another hard one I have K. Charles losing out to Y. Turner but it is very close
the * is another place I see the waiver wire beating out the rest of the roster for the last spot N. Sabally back the pacific North West is an easy storyline, Kone works here as well which I why I hope we try to trade for a future second round pick at least and Juhasz as above rounds out the young posts a developing team might as well give a shot if they are cut and if I am wrong and Collier is cut in Dallas Seattle can afford to give the former #1 pick another shot.
Washington
I believe Washington will be going for a championship so experience and chemistry will trump other considerations
Could/Toliver
Atkins/SWK
Sykes/Li Meng
EDD/MHA/Hawkins
Austin/Zahui B
If Toliver signs for vet minimum they can just barely afford Hawkins and Zahui B's vet minimums over other player base minimums. If Toliver decides she isn't up to it after the NBA season then Westbrook squeaks in. If Westbrook she could also be a replacement player option in Minny or PX
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 04/30/23 8:32 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Jumping off of Richyyy's great article I am going to try and predict all rosters no equivocating (maybe with some fun extra's here and there)
Atl
D-Rob/McDonald
A. Gray/AD
R. Howard/H. Jones/Coffey
Billings/Hillmon/Amihere
Parker/Rupert*
If Rupert doesn't show up I give the edge to Cubaj over Coates
Chicago
Mabrey/Evans
C. Williams/*
Copper/Gardner
Harrison/Smith
E. Will/Li Yueru/Hebard**
* I could see someone from the waiver wire beat out the current contenders
** If there is a maternity replacement for Hebard there should be a bunch of names on the waiver wire (Could also see T. Charles in this spot)
Conn
Hiedeman/Harris/Morris
Hayes/Carrington
Bonner/Allen
A. Thomas/L. Cox
B. Jones/Nelson-Ododa
with Bonner and Allen able to play some minutes at the 4 Conn makes the risky decision go with 4 posts and A. Morris beats out Clouden for the last spot. I feel a little iffy about Cox but think she gets the last post spot over Herbert-Harrigan
Dallas
forgive my positioning but I refuse to bring Deshields off the bench
Ogunbowale/Dangerfield
Deshields/Burton
Sabally/Lopez-Senechel/Joens
Howard/Siegrist
McCowan/Kuier/Collier
my two controversial calls Collier beats out Brown and Joens beats out Meyers my apologies to the Dallas fans that will hate these calls I promise it is just an opinion my thought process Dallas isn't quite ready to give up on a #1 pick and Brown hasn't done quite enough to be the shoe in people think she is and I think one characteristic that people over look in A. Joens is her competitive spirit and for lack of a better word ego and I don't think she will go down without a fight, and that might be enough to get her through. My third slightly less controversial opinion is Dangerfield was brought in for a real I don't even think she is on the bubble (her above vet minimum contract is one of the reasons and how well she complemented Ionescu in a similar role to how she will play with Arike is another) but again could be wrong.
Indy
Wheeler/Henderson/Berger
K. Mitchell/Wallace
Vivians/Hull
N. Smith/Cannon
Boston/Egbo/Hatar
Hull beats out Davis for the back up SF spot. Berger is kept based on potential and maybe some home town box office appeal. The three centers of Boston, Egbo and Hatar might lead to some Experimenting with Boston at the 4 on occasion.
LV
C. Gray/Colson
Plum/R. Williams
J. Young/Clark/Bell
Wilson/George
Parker/Stokes
Going for a ship Colson wins the back court spot with experience, Bell like Hull in Indy hangs on because of growth and exposure during Athletes Unlimited.
LA
J. Thomas/Clarendon
Brown/Cooke
Hamby/Bradford/KLS*
Stevens/Gray
N. Ogwumike/C. Ogwumike
Clarendon beats out Canada Miller likes PGs with a 3 point shot but
R. Gray beats out Holmes for final post spot
Bradford's arrival knocks out Burrell
I don't like Yang Liwei missing out, if the math works for a 12th player I give it to her if not I can't see who gets cut ahead of her could be the *replacement player for KLS
More bizarre idea is Yang Liwei gets 11th spot over R. Gray and yes again Maybe T. Charles is brought in as the replacement player for KLS (Stevens, Charles, Nneka and Chiney is a pretty formidable post rotation and I do believe LA and Miller are in it to win it)
Minny
Allen
McBride/T. Mitchell/Carelton
Powers/Miller
N. Collier/Milic
Sheppard/Dantas/Achonwa *
It was hard to cut Juhasz, if Dantas doesn't show Juhasz is in, Juhasz also seems like the easiest fit as Achonwa's maternity replacement but, broken record number one this could also be an interesting place for T. Charles to show up, she does have experience with Reeve on the National team but but,
the * maternity replacement really should be a lead guard (unless we think one of McBride, Mitchell or Powers could end up splitting PG minutes with L. Allen) Banham seems like a natural fit having been there done that in Minny before but is this a place for someone to take a chance on C. Carter?
NY
(this one hurts barring unexpected pre-season trades) I have
Sloot/Prince
Ionescu/Johannes
Laney/Willoughby
Stewart/Thorton
J. Jones/Dolson/Han Xu
I would keep Richards over Prince but I don't think that will be what happens. And with 8 players on guaranteed money and Johannes (and even if Johannes shows up late she has to be on the opening day roster to play later in the season so no place holders like in years past) and Han Xu are on bare minimum contracts and are very much in the teams plans there is only one spot left. I have it going to Prince championship contending team prize experience over potential and I think her prior teammate-ship with Stewart was another reason she was brought in. Unfortunately this means cutting not only Richards but also N. Sabally and Kone without ever getting to see them in a Liberty uniform. The good news for Kone and Sabally there will be teams looking to pick up young posts Seattle, PX, and Chicago all seem like possibilities IMO
PX
Jefferson/SDS*
Taurasi/Simms
Cunningham/Thomas
Turner/Onyenwere/**
Griner/Gustafson
If SDS isn't ready at the beginning of the season and needs a maternity replacement I think the guard will come from the waiver wire This could be a nice landing spot for Richards or Canada, Westbrook if she is cut by Washington and it also seems like the perfect non-committal opportunity to bring in you guessed it C. Carter.
** It terms of the 11th roster spot if it is a post I could see Shook making it but my guess is this will be a waiver wire, you have Kone and/or Sabally coming out of NY, Brown or Collier coming out of Dallas, Juhasz might be out in Minny?
Seattle
Whitcomb/Melborne
Loyd/Guirantes/Turner
Nurse/Horston
Magbegor/Plaisance/*
Russell/Fankam Mendjiadeu
Another hard one I have K. Charles losing out to Y. Turner but it is very close
the * is another place I see the waiver wire beating out the rest of the roster for the last spot N. Sabally back the pacific North West is an easy storyline, Kone works here as well which I why I hope we try to trade for a future second round pick at least and Juhasz as above rounds out the young posts a developing team might as well give a shot if they are cut and if I am wrong and Collier is cut in Dallas Seattle can afford to give the former #1 pick another shot.
Washington
I believe Washington will be going for a championship so experience and chemistry will trump other considerations
Could/Toliver
Atkins/SWK
Sykes/Li Meng
EDD/MHA/Hawkins
Austin/Zahui B
If Toliver signs for vet minimum they can just barely afford Hawkins and Zahui B's vet minimums over other player base minimums. If Toliver decides she isn't up to it after the NBA season then Westbrook squeaks in. If Westbrook she could also be a replacement player option in Minny or PX |
I feel really bad for Christyn Williams, because I really think she would've been a good pro. Her ACL injury couldn't have happened at a worse time for a kid.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1365
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| Posted: 04/30/23 3:08 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| I feel really bad for Christyn Williams, because I really think she would've been a good pro. Her ACL injury couldn't have happened at a worse time for a kid. |
Are you 100% certain she is healthy? I feel like someone would be giving her a shot, if she was. I will agree that she deserves one.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1098
Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 05/03/23 10:53 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I feel really bad for Christyn Williams, because I really think she would've been a good pro. Her ACL injury couldn't have happened at a worse time for a kid. |
Are you 100% certain she is healthy? I feel like someone would be giving her a shot, if she was. I will agree that she deserves one. |
You guys must be UConn fans, because Christyn Williams would never have made a WNBA roster. Her skill set just would not have translated. She was never a consistant outside shooter- far too inconsistant hot and cold with much more cold. Her offense relied too much on driving to the basket and physically overwelming her defenders. That would not have worked against the level of competition she would face in the WNBA. You have to be consistant from outside
She was borderline iffy even before her injury. She would have needed a lot of breaks to go her way. Right team at the right time etc. The injury just put the nail in her coffin. Its tough to make a roster now days. The reputation she brought into college is not going to do her much good now.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 05/03/23 11:50 am ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I feel really bad for Christyn Williams, because I really think she would've been a good pro. Her ACL injury couldn't have happened at a worse time for a kid. |
Are you 100% certain she is healthy? I feel like someone would be giving her a shot, if she was. I will agree that she deserves one. |
You guys must be UConn fans, because Christyn Williams would never have made a WNBA roster. Her skill set just would not have translated. She was never a consistant outside shooter- far too inconsistant hot and cold with much more cold. Her offense relied too much on driving to the basket and physically overwelming her defenders. That would not have worked against the level of competition she would face in the WNBA. You have to be consistant from outside
She was borderline iffy even before her injury. She would have needed a lot of breaks to go her way. Right team at the right time etc. The injury just put the nail in her coffin. Its tough to make a roster now days. The reputation she brought into college is not going to do her much good now. |
OTOH, some players are helped by Geno's systems while others are hurt by them. When you have a player like Katie Lou Samuelson for instance, who has one great skill while being a clear liability on defense, the other 4 players have to make up her deficits, while playing supporting roles to get her the shots (her only reason for being on the floor). Katie Lou parlayed that shooting prowess (plus the promise of providing some rebounding at her height) into 4 yrs in the WNBA (3 different teams as each team realized she did literally nothing but shoot the ball - check the stats before you call me a "hater" yet again).
I think Christyn deserves a look in training camp, if healthy to see how much talent was being hidden in favor of others in Geno's system.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 05/03/23 1:11 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Dallas
forgive my positioning but I refuse to bring Deshields off the bench
Ogunbowale/Dangerfield
Deshields/Burton
Sabally/Lopez-Senechel/Joens
Howard/Siegrist
McCowan/Kuier/Collier
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OTOH against quite a few teams they could start:
Dangermouse
Ogunbowale
Deshields
Sabally
Howard.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6800
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| Posted: 05/03/23 2:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Dallas
forgive my positioning but I refuse to bring Deshields off the bench
Ogunbowale/Dangerfield
Deshields/Burton
Sabally/Lopez-Senechel/Joens
Howard/Siegrist
McCowan/Kuier/Collier
|
OTOH against quite a few teams they could start:
Dangermouse
Ogunbowale
Deshields
Sabally
Howard. |
Tbh they could probably also start
Dangerfield, Ogunbowale, Deshields , Howard, McCowan
Dallas has a lot of options could also bookend Ogunbowale with Burton and Deshields for maximum perimeter defense around Arike
Dallas has options
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15740
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 05/03/23 4:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| I think Christyn deserves a look in training camp, if healthy to see how much talent was being hidden in favor of others in Geno's system. |
I don't follow the kid much, never did. But when I DID see her, she was fairly impressive. Odd that a #1 recruit out of high school, going full term at a powerhouse like UConn, isn't on a pro roster. What was her injury, was it anything terribly limiting?
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1365
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| Posted: 05/03/23 6:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Dallas
forgive my positioning but I refuse to bring Deshields off the bench
Ogunbowale/Dangerfield
Deshields/Burton
Sabally/Lopez-Senechel/Joens
Howard/Siegrist
McCowan/Kuier/Collier
|
OTOH against quite a few teams they could start:
Dangermouse
Ogunbowale
Deshields
Sabally
Howard. |
Tbh they could probably also start
Dangerfield, Ogunbowale, Deshields , Howard, McCowan
Dallas has a lot of options could also bookend Ogunbowale with Burton and Deshields for maximum perimeter defense around Arike
Dallas has options |
Sabally coming off the bench makes the most sense to me as she can backfill the 3, 4 and the 5 if Howard moves over. I think this team has a better chance than any of getting the 6th Man this year.
_________________
Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
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