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pilight
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 08/29/22 1:42 pm ::: |
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I don't like this and I don't care who is mad about it. There is no way a #1 pick should ever win this award. Ever. Nor should a #1 pick be the runner up. Or even qualify.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 08/29/22 2:52 pm ::: |
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Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: 08/29/22 4:06 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs |
As a Phoenix fan, I wholly disagree. I find it nice that she got a vote but she wouldn't be deserving. Her inability to coach SDS alone should preclude her from a coaching award. She had a tough hand, absolutely but that doesn't make her worthy of the award.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/29/22 4:44 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| I don't like this and I don't care who is mad about it. There is no way a #1 pick should ever win this award. Ever. Nor should a #1 pick be the runner up. Or even qualify. |
I entirely agree.
I've been in favor of abolishing this award for a long time, but if we're going to do it let's do somebody who actually made significant improvement.
There were only two players in the league who improved their ppg by at least five and their rpg and apg by at least one over last season. One was Alyssa Thomas, who was hurt and only played three games at well below her normal production last year. The other was Jessica Shepard, who should have been a strong contender for this award but somehow got zero votes.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 08/29/22 6:04 pm ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs |
As a Phoenix fan, I wholly disagree. I find it nice that she got a vote but she wouldn't be deserving. Her inability to coach SDS alone should preclude her from a coaching award. She had a tough hand, absolutely but that doesn't make her worthy of the award. |
Besides Muffett, who let her do what she wanted, what coach has been able to coach her? She's been the same, entitled, locker room nightmare, everywhere she's ever been.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 08/29/22 6:07 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I don't like this and I don't care who is mad about it. There is no way a #1 pick should ever win this award. Ever. Nor should a #1 pick be the runner up. Or even qualify. |
I entirely agree.
I've been in favor of abolishing this award for a long time, but if we're going to do it let's do somebody who actually made significant improvement.
There were only two players in the league who improved their ppg by at least five and their rpg and apg by at least one over last season. One was Alyssa Thomas, who was hurt and only played three games at well below her normal production last year. The other was Jessica Shepard, who should have been a strong contender for this award but somehow got zero votes. |
Thank you! To me, this should be the award Gardner should've won. She improved so much that she was a 32 year old rookie(in case ESPN didn't let you know enough). The fact that 3 #1 picks were 3 of the top 4 vote getters is utterly ridiculous.
Totally agree about Shepard.
As a UCONN fan I would loved to have seen Moriah win it, but she was the #2 pick, so I don't think she should've been in the running either, but I don't see how she didn't get a vote.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167
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| Posted: 08/29/22 6:40 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs |
As a Phoenix fan, I wholly disagree. I find it nice that she got a vote but she wouldn't be deserving. Her inability to coach SDS alone should preclude her from a coaching award. She had a tough hand, absolutely but that doesn't make her worthy of the award. |
Besides Muffett, who let her do what she wanted, what coach has been able to coach her? She's been the same, entitled, locker room nightmare, everywhere she's ever been. |
Brondello and Fred Williams coached her to multiple All WNBA team honors 🤷🏽♂️
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
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| Posted: 08/29/22 6:42 pm ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard |
I'm going to agree with this, but only on a technicality
🤡
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167
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| Posted: 08/29/22 6:45 pm ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs |
As a Phoenix fan, I wholly disagree. I find it nice that she got a vote but she wouldn't be deserving. Her inability to coach SDS alone should preclude her from a coaching award. She had a tough hand, absolutely but that doesn't make her worthy of the award. |
This! Some things were completely outta her control, e.g. the whole Griner fiasco, but everything else with the Charles divorce, all star snub 🤡 talk, discord with SDS, that’s all on her. A more experienced coach knows the pulse of team and when to push and prod and when to soothe.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: 08/29/22 7:02 pm ::: |
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IMO, the only two people worthy of the award this season were Hammon and Wade. Hammon has unleashed the full potential of this roster. Did they have slightly less wins? Sure. Their quality was so much higher, though, and they dominated the teams that mattered. Wade more than provided Chicago's championship wasn't a fluke. This is a defending champion squad. Very impressed with his team.
I feel like Miller,Thibault and Quinn did not maximize their potential, which makes them ineligible for me. Impressed with what VJ achieved in Dallas but not quite good enough for COY. Brondello and Nygaard have no business in the discussion this year, nor do the lottery coaches.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5376
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 08/29/22 7:06 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I don't like this and I don't care who is mad about it. There is no way a #1 pick should ever win this award. Ever. Nor should a #1 pick be the runner up. Or even qualify. |
I entirely agree.
I've been in favor of abolishing this award for a long time, but if we're going to do it let's do somebody who actually made significant improvement.
There were only two players in the league who improved their ppg by at least five and their rpg and apg by at least one over last season. One was Alyssa Thomas, who was hurt and only played three games at well below her normal production last year. The other was Jessica Shepard, who should have been a strong contender for this award but somehow got zero votes.
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Shepard didn't get noticed because she played for a losing team. The people that vote like to vote for someone that is bright and flashy. Shepard is not bright and flashy.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 08/29/22 7:07 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I don't like this and I don't care who is mad about it. There is no way a #1 pick should ever win this award. Ever. Nor should a #1 pick be the runner up. Or even qualify. |
I entirely agree.
I've been in favor of abolishing this award for a long time, but if we're going to do it let's do somebody who actually made significant improvement.
There were only two players in the league who improved their ppg by at least five and their rpg and apg by at least one over last season. One was Alyssa Thomas, who was hurt and only played three games at well below her normal production last year. The other was Jessica Shepard, who should have been a strong contender for this award but somehow got zero votes.
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Shepard didn't get noticed because she played for a losing team. The people that vote like to vote for someone that is bright and flashy. Shepard is not bright and flashy.
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You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/29/22 7:11 pm ::: |
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Award voters have bought into the instant gratification mindset. A high draft pick should dominate immediately, right?
Fact is, players who can step right in and be all world like Candace Parker was as a rookie are extremely rare. Also it's much harder to do than it was 15 years ago when the quality of play wasn't what it is now.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/29/22 10:34 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Award voters have bought into the instant gratification mindset. A high draft pick should dominate immediately, right?
Fact is, players who can step right in and be all world like Candace Parker was as a rookie are extremely rare. Also it's much harder to do than it was 15 years ago when the quality of play wasn't what it is now. |
To me, that makes the case for people like Young being perfectly reasonable options for Most Improved. Why shouldn't a #1 pick win it if #1s can't be expected to dominate immediately? They have to work hard, and improve significantly to get to that level, just like everyone else.
Shepard had essentially her first healthy season ever. That, combined with getting to play a load more minutes, was where most of her increases came from. They'd have to change the award entirely for someone like Gardner to be involved. She's a rookie. By definition there's nothing to improve from.
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| IMO, the only two people worthy of the award this season were Hammon and Wade. Hammon has unleashed the full potential of this roster. Did they have slightly less wins? Sure. Their quality was so much higher, though, and they dominated the teams that mattered. |
They didn't just have fewer wins. If you want to go by the numbers, they got a bit better offensively, and a lot worse defensively. Overall, pretty much any measure - even beyond their win-loss record - says the Aces were better last year. Which makes it a pretty unusual CotY win. |
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 1466
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| Posted: 08/30/22 11:26 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Award voters have bought into the instant gratification mindset. A high draft pick should dominate immediately, right?
Fact is, players who can step right in and be all world like Candace Parker was as a rookie are extremely rare. Also it's much harder to do than it was 15 years ago when the quality of play wasn't what it is now. |
To me, that makes the case for people like Young being perfectly reasonable options for Most Improved. Why shouldn't a #1 pick win it if #1s can't be expected to dominate immediately? They have to work hard, and improve significantly to get to that level, just like everyone else.
Shepard had essentially her first healthy season ever. That, combined with getting to play a load more minutes, was where most of her increases came from. They'd have to change the award entirely for someone like Gardner to be involved. She's a rookie. By definition there's nothing to improve from.
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| IMO, the only two people worthy of the award this season were Hammon and Wade. Hammon has unleashed the full potential of this roster. Did they have slightly less wins? Sure. Their quality was so much higher, though, and they dominated the teams that mattered. |
They didn't just have fewer wins. If you want to go by the numbers, they got a bit better offensively, and a lot worse defensively. Overall, pretty much any measure - even beyond their win-loss record - says the Aces were better last year. Which makes it a pretty unusual CotY win. |
Because people like Young and Ionescu were already pretty good beforehand. Sure, Young improved her 3 point shooting, but what else did she major leaps in? It is not like her scoring numbers jumped that much.
Call me a biased PHX fan, but the award should have been Cunningham's. She went from inconsistent role player to a legitimate weapon this season. A lot of it had to do with the roster changes, but she also looks like a legitimate starter in this league. That was not necessarily the case last year. The fact she only got 7 votes is pretty absurd to me.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/30/22 12:05 pm ::: |
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All-Defensive First Team:
A’ja Wilson
Breanna Stewart
Sylvia Fowles
Natasha Cloud
Ariel Atkins
All-Defensive Second Team:
Alyssa Thomas
Jonquel Jones
Ezi Magbegor
Brittney Sykes
Gabby Williams
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8183
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| Posted: 08/30/22 12:19 pm ::: |
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| Iluvacc wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
Low key...COY should have gone to Nygaard
* No Griner
* T. Charles divorce
* SDS leave teams
* DT injured
* No Nurse
* Weak bench
And Phoenix still made the playoffs |
As a Phoenix fan, I wholly disagree. I find it nice that she got a vote but she wouldn't be deserving. Her inability to coach SDS alone should preclude her from a coaching award. She had a tough hand, absolutely but that doesn't make her worthy of the award. |
This! Some things were completely outta her control, e.g. the whole Griner fiasco, but everything else with the Charles divorce, all star snub 🤡 talk, discord with SDS, that’s all on her. A more experienced coach knows the pulse of team and when to push and prod and when to soothe. |
I'm not putting everything on Nygaard...Tina checked out once Griner got detained...SDS checked out before the season started because she didn't get the Coach that she wanted...Both players have a history of being a little difficult to deal with....Nygaard does deserve some blame for not doing a better job of managing the egos (including hers) and being too far up Taurasi's ass. That being said, Phoenix still made the playoffs despite having a depleted roster...I understand not wanting to give the COY award to a HC that finished sub .500, but Nygaard should've finished top 4 and gotten more than 1 vote...Had Tina stayed committed and SDS showed the new HC more support, Phoenix probably wins 20-22 games...Tina is now playing the way she should've played in Washington/Phoenix.
My COY list in order:
Vickie Johnson
Vanessa Nygaard
Tanisha Wright
Noelle Quinn
Becky Hammon
Curt Miller
James Wade
Becky Hammon winning COY is comical (If Vegas wins the championship ill give Becky her props)
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
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| Posted: 08/30/22 12:43 pm ::: |
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Positional Breakdown of the 10 All-Defensive Honorees:
PG: 1 (Cloud)
SG: 1 (Atkins)
SF: 2 (Sykes, Williams)
PF: 2 (Stewart, Thomas)
C: 4 (Fowles, Magbegor, Wilson, Jones)
The voting process is broken and needs to change.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167
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| Posted: 08/30/22 12:53 pm ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
Positional Breakdown of the 10 All-Defensive Honorees:
PG: 1 (Cloud)
SG: 1 (Atkins)
SF: 2 (Sykes, Williams)
PF: 2 (Stewart, Thomas)
C: 4 (Fowles, Magbegor, Wilson, Jones)
The voting process is broken and needs to change. |
I thought it’s now position less just like the All WNBA teams will be this year.
Don’t have much to quibble with concerning this years defensive selections. Except for AT, she should definitely be on the first team.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 08/30/22 12:57 pm ::: |
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| Iluvacc wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
Positional Breakdown of the 10 All-Defensive Honorees:
PG: 1 (Cloud)
SG: 1 (Atkins)
SF: 2 (Sykes, Williams)
PF: 2 (Stewart, Thomas)
C: 4 (Fowles, Magbegor, Wilson, Jones)
The voting process is broken and needs to change. |
I thought it’s now position less just like the All WNBA teams will be this year.
Don’t have much to quibble with concerning this years defensive selections. Except for AT, she should definitely be on the first team. |
All-W teams are indeed positionless now but the All-Defensive teams are still by position.
Even if it *weren't* by position, in principle I still think more guards should have made this list. Backcourt disruptors are undervalued because they can't compile the counting stats of blocks and defensive rebounds like the 4/5s can, IMO.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6878
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| Posted: 08/30/22 1:01 pm ::: |
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I can't really argue about any of the winners. There were others, in each category, who could have won too, but it's a vote nothing absolute that could be settled on the floor.
It shall pass.
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Speebs56
Joined: 19 Aug 2015
Posts: 228
Location: Orange county, CA
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| Posted: 08/31/22 6:40 pm ::: |
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Anyone notice Defensive PoY and All Defensive team was scheduled to be announced on Friday, Sept. 2nd, at least according to WNBA announcement.
Anyone know why those were announced already?
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