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johnjohnW
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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 Posted: 08/17/22 9:31 am ::: |
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https://twitter.com/AlexAzziNBC/status/1559646633465454596
| Quote: |
Huh.
2022 WNBA regular season ratings average: 372,000 viewers
2021 MLS regular season average: 276,000 viewers
New MLS rights deal: $250 million/season
Current WNBA rights deal: $27 million/season
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 08/17/22 9:10 pm ::: |
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I hope Cathy is pressing this issue HARD. the league proved what it can do this year with increased ABC games. Imagine what they could do with an ABC primetime game. I'd like to see the All-star game on ABC Saturday night.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 08/18/22 11:28 pm ::: |
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8/17 New York-Chicago ESPN2 288,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .08
F18-49: .08
M18-49: .09
18-34: .08
F12-34: .05
M12-34: .08
25-54: .10
50+: .14
The ESPN2 portion of Phoenix-Las Vegas averaged 281,000 viewers and the ESPN portion averaged 398,000 viewers.
Demographic group averages with ESPN2 first, then ESPN:
18-49: .09/.10
F18-49: .07/.08
M18-49: .12/.13
18-34: .10/.10
F12-34: .05/.06
M12-34: .11/.11
25-54: .11/.12
50+: .12/.20 |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/19/22 5:06 pm ::: |
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| awhom111 wrote: |
| 8/12 Seattle-Minnesota ESPN2 88,000 |
Yikes. Good thing most TV games aren't shown late on Friday nights. |
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1836
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| Posted: 08/19/22 8:05 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| awhom111 wrote: |
| 8/12 Seattle-Minnesota ESPN2 88,000 |
Yikes. Good thing most TV games aren't shown late on Friday nights. |
If I recall, this game was a late addition to the TV schedule. Not sure if that matters.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 08/19/22 11:08 pm ::: |
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| 8/18 Washington-Seattle ESPN2 321,000 |
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 08/23/22 11:41 pm ::: |
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8/20 Pregame ESPN2 145,000
8/20 New York-Chicago ESPN 360,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .10
F18-49: .08
M18-49: .12
18-34: .06
F12-34: .04
M12-34: .06
25-54: .13
50+: .19
8/20 Phoenix-Las Vegas ESPN2 288,000
8/21 Dallas-Connecticut ABC 795,000
8/21 Pregame ESPN 258,000
8/21 Washington-Seattle ESPN 398,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .09
F18-49: .05
M18-49: .14
18-34: .07
F12-34: .03
M12-34: .08
25-54: .11
50+: .21 |
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5376
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 08/24/22 12:08 am ::: |
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| awhom111 wrote: |
8/20 Pregame ESPN2 145,000
8/20 New York-Chicago ESPN 360,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .10
F18-49: .08
M18-49: .12
18-34: .06
F12-34: .04
M12-34: .06
25-54: .13
50+: .19
8/20 Phoenix-Las Vegas ESPN2 288,000
8/21 Dallas-Connecticut ABC 795,000
8/21 Pregame ESPN 258,000
8/21 Washington-Seattle ESPN 398,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .09
F18-49: .05
M18-49: .14
18-34: .07
F12-34: .03
M12-34: .08
25-54: .11
50+: .21 |
The ABC numbers indicate what the W can do if you show the games on broadcast television.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 08/24/22 11:46 pm ::: |
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8/23 Pregame ESPN2 118,000
8/23 Chicago-New York ESPN 533,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .16
F18-49: .12
M18-49: .20
18-34: .11
F12-34: .10
M12-34: .11
25-54: .21
50+: .24 |
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 08/26/22 12:12 am ::: |
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8/24 Pregame ESPN2 83,000
8/24 Dallas-Connecticut ESPN2 175,000
8/24 Dallas-Connecticut ESPN 497,000
Demographic group averages for ESPN portion of game:
18-49: .12
F18-49: .07
M18-49: .17
18-34: .07
F12-34: .06
M12-34: .06
25-54: .17
50+: .28 |
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 4225
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| Posted: 08/30/22 11:29 pm ::: |
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8/28 Pregame ESPN2 75,000
8/28 Pregame ESPN 188,000
8/28 Seattle-Las Vegas ESPN 468,000
Demographic group averages for game:
18-49: .13
F18-49: .12
M18-49: .15
18-34: .11
F12-34: .10
M12-34: .10
25-54: .16
50+: .22
8/28 Connecticut-Chicago ESPN2 409,000
Demographic group averages:
18-49: .11
F18-49: .12
M18-49: .10
18-34: .09
F12-34: .10
M12-34: .06
25-54: .13
50+: .19 |
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1836
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| Posted: 08/31/22 6:17 am ::: |
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| That's a very impressive number for a 10pm game on ESPN2.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/31/22 8:34 am ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| That's a very impressive number for a 10pm game on ESPN2. |
It was an 8pm tipoff.
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| The ABC numbers indicate what the W can do if you show the games on broadcast television. |
Or possibly that people will watch anything on network television. What would the ratings be like for a random ancient Wheel of Fortune repeat in the same slot?
awhom111, is it common for sporting events to skew so old in those demographic breakdowns, or is that peculiarly WNBA-connected? Seems like that could be relevant when the vital negotiations come around for the next broadcast deal. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
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| Posted: 08/31/22 9:53 am ::: |
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| TV skews old. Young people stream.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 08/31/22 10:03 am ::: |
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| But are young people really streaming the WNBA in high numbers?..... If the streaming numbers are high. Maybe the W can use those numbers as leverage to get a bigger deal when their contract is up with ESPN. I would like to see the streaming numbers for the recent playoff games.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/31/22 11:52 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| But are young people really streaming the WNBA in high numbers?..... If the streaming numbers are high. Maybe the W can use those numbers as leverage to get a bigger deal when their contract is up with ESPN. I would like to see the streaming numbers for the recent playoff games. |
We're almost certainly going to end up with some combination of the two. MLS's gigantic recent deal was with Apple, so is mostly streaming, but with the open option to also sell games to TV. Given the desperate need to keep building their visibility, I seriously doubt the WNBA is going to want to go pure streaming. |
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 08/31/22 3:43 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| But are young people really streaming the WNBA in high numbers?..... If the streaming numbers are high. Maybe the W can use those numbers as leverage to get a bigger deal when their contract is up with ESPN. I would like to see the streaming numbers for the recent playoff games. |
We're almost certainly going to end up with some combination of the two. MLS's gigantic recent deal was with Apple, so is mostly streaming, but with the open option to also sell games to TV. Given the desperate need to keep building their visibility, I seriously doubt the WNBA is going to want to go pure streaming. |
I thibk a hybrid of an ESPN game of the week and streaming would work well. Cathy is astute. I think she is going to knock it out of the park with the next deal. It won't be MLS money (which will be a shame) but she has a real opportunity to leverage a big payday for the league.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 08/31/22 3:46 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| TV skews old. Young people stream. |
Dumb question from someone who knows nothing about TV ratings. I have a YouTubeTV subscription in place of traditional cable. Does that count as "TV" or "streaming"?
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 4225
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| Posted: 09/01/22 12:07 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| That's a very impressive number for a 10pm game on ESPN2. |
It was an 8pm tipoff.
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| The ABC numbers indicate what the W can do if you show the games on broadcast television. |
Or possibly that people will watch anything on network television. What would the ratings be like for a random ancient Wheel of Fortune repeat in the same slot?
awhom111, is it common for sporting events to skew so old in those demographic breakdowns, or is that peculiarly WNBA-connected? Seems like that could be relevant when the vital negotiations come around for the next broadcast deal. |
That ABC game did get comfortably beaten by rain delay coverage of the Little League World Series that ran right after it, part of which was a replay of a game from last year.
Most sports skew old so the WNBA numbers are pretty much in line with expectations. MLS actually skews reasonably young. These recent numbers have not looked bad among young women so if they can actually build that audience, that could help with money in future as good numbers in that group can bring in advertising.
| zune69 wrote: |
| But are young people really streaming the WNBA in high numbers?..... If the streaming numbers are high. Maybe the W can use those numbers as leverage to get a bigger deal when their contract is up with ESPN. I would like to see the streaming numbers for the recent playoff games. |
There's no truly reliable metric for streaming and a lot of question about what streaming really constitutes. For these games, you basically cannot legally stream in the United States unless you are a television subscriber already, although obviously people borrow logins from friends and family. ESPN does have the ability to count how many devices are tuned into their streams though.
| Richyyy wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| But are young people really streaming the WNBA in high numbers?..... If the streaming numbers are high. Maybe the W can use those numbers as leverage to get a bigger deal when their contract is up with ESPN. I would like to see the streaming numbers for the recent playoff games. |
We're almost certainly going to end up with some combination of the two. MLS's gigantic recent deal was with Apple, so is mostly streaming, but with the open option to also sell games to TV. Given the desperate need to keep building their visibility, I seriously doubt the WNBA is going to want to go pure streaming. |
MLS almost certainly got the worst deal that they would accept and it is not a great sign for what other pro sports might do even if a lot of fans prefer one platform owning all of the rights to a league. Presumably they would have wanted some order of ESPN, NBC, FOX, CBS (maybe higher if they arranged a language split with Univision), Warner/Discovery (they may have wanted this one pretty high too), or Amazon ahead of Apple. I wonder what the local team deal breakdown really is financially as I think the Galaxy took a hit in surrendering theirs to MLS. Selfishly, ESPN owning all the rights and putting all non-televised games on ESPN+ to replace League Pass, while retaining non-exclusive local sub-licensing works for me like the way they do their USL coverage, but I could see why people would not like that. They key to me is not accepting a deal where there are multiple pay streaming options.
| undersized_post wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| TV skews old. Young people stream. |
Dumb question from someone who knows nothing about TV ratings. I have a YouTubeTV subscription in place of traditional cable. Does that count as "TV" or "streaming"? |
A lot of people would say that's streaming, but it's TV. Anything where you are getting the national feed in terms of commercials is TV. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 09/01/22 10:59 am ::: |
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| awhom111 wrote: |
| MLS almost certainly got the worst deal that they would accept and it is not a great sign for what other pro sports might do even if a lot of fans prefer one platform owning all of the rights to a league. |
I totally get what you're saying, but if the worst deal that the WNBA can get is $250m per year with the option to sell national TV broadcasts on top I think the WNBA will be over the moon. Better if it's with a well-established, highly-visible broadcaster of course, but as long as it's not in Dogecoin or from a company that's going to go bust a couple of years into the deal, that's transformative money wherever it's coming from. |
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 09/01/22 11:54 pm ::: |
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8/31 Pregame ESPN2 132,000
8/31 Connecticut-Chicago ESPN2 322,000
8/31 Seattle-Las Vegas ESPN2 504,000
Demographic group averages for second game:
18-49: .14
F18-49: .10
M18-49: .18
18-34: .10
F12-34: .06
M12-34: .10
25-54: .18
50+: .25
| Richyyy wrote: |
| awhom111 wrote: |
| MLS almost certainly got the worst deal that they would accept and it is not a great sign for what other pro sports might do even if a lot of fans prefer one platform owning all of the rights to a league. |
I totally get what you're saying, but if the worst deal that the WNBA can get is $250m per year with the option to sell national TV broadcasts on top I think the WNBA will be over the moon. Better if it's with a well-established, highly-visible broadcaster of course, but as long as it's not in Dogecoin or from a company that's going to go bust a couple of years into the deal, that's transformative money wherever it's coming from. |
It's hard to say how much the MLS package being around three times the games inventory should be taken into account. Also, the deal includes things that have actual value for MLS, but not much of the equivalent for the WNBA in Spanish language and general international rights. I doubt that the WNBA is planning to lump their rights together so package details will be much more important for fans than the money involved.
I see that your club did not manage to sign Brereton from us. I hope that our next meeting is in your current division and not ours. |
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 09/02/22 6:14 am ::: |
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| awhom111 wrote: |
8/31 Pregame ESPN2 132,000
8/31 Connecticut-Chicago ESPN2 322,000
8/31 Seattle-Las Vegas ESPN2 504,000
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Okay. Now THAT is a very impressive number for a 10PM game on ESPN2.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 4225
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| Posted: 09/07/22 9:42 am ::: |
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9/4 Pregame ESPN2 249,000
9/4 Chicago-Connecticut ESPN2 498,000
9/4 Las Vegas-Seattle ABC 905,000
Demographic group averages for ESPN2 game:
18-49: .11
F18-49: .09
M18-49: .13
18-34: .07
F12-34: .07
M12-34: .06
25-54: .15
50+: .28 |
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