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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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 Posted: 08/01/22 9:41 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| I appreciate what you're doing here GlennMacGrady, even with the number of people yelling at you about it. Even if the whole thing is essentially a scam, or corrupt, or a frame job, or redundant because Putin could step in and do what he wants with her, there's still value in looking at it from the legal perspective. They haven't just chucked her in a cell and thrown away the key. This isn't some third-world country making shit up as they go along. However many horrible things are going on in Russia, and however much we may disagree with some of their laws, they do appear to have stipulated laws. They have a legal system that's trying her. Could it all be bullshit? Absolutely. There's still value in trying to understand what they're doing to her within their own rules and how this could play out if they stick to them. It's also a perspective that I've seen very little of anywhere else (because most people have, somewhat understandably, heard the "wrongfully detained" designation and stopped caring about any of the legal processes). So yeah, thanks. |
THANK YOU, RICHYYY, for your always unique EURO perspective: it is my experience that Europeans tend to be less absolute in their arguments. We Americans need more of that! 
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 08/02/22 1:28 pm ::: |
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Griner had her 7th court hearing today. It's reported HERE among many other outlets.
Three types of background would be helpful, for those who have an interest in the trial, before I continue my legal analysis of today's hearing and Griner's entire defense strategy.
BACKGROUND
1. In addition to having a very detailed (170 page) Criminal Code, which specifies all the various crimes and penalties, Russia also has a very detailed (236 page) Criminal Procedure Code, which specifies exactly how arrests, trial and appeals are to proceed and also specifies the rights of the subject and the accused. Among these procedural rights are the rights to be notified in writing within three hours of the charges against you, the right to an attorney, the right to effective translation, and the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty.
2. As I set forth in my May 30 post above, vape oil cartridges can have wildly varying concentrations of the active ingredient, THC. THC concentration can vary from 10% to 90%, mixed in with diluting solvents, thinners and flavonoids. I assumed an average of 75% THC for purposes of that post. The point is that no one can really know how much active THC (the bad and illegal stuff) is in a vape oil cartridge unless the concentration is accurately measured.
3. Crimes in Russia, as in the USA and most everywhere else, must include not only the prohibited act (called the actus reus) but also a sufficiently guilty mental state (called mens rea). There are various degrees of guilty mental states including specific intent, general intent, reckless disregard, and negligence. The point is that if someone thinks a liquid cartridge contains olive oil because that's how it's labeled and that's what everyone has told you it is, you don't have the requisite mental intent to possess hash oil if that's what the liquid cartridge turns out to contain. (Athletes who test positive for PEDs often make this defense argument.)
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SUMMARY OF DEFENSE SO FAR
The primary defense evidence offered in today's hearing was testimony from a chemist that the prosecution's chemist never analyzed the vape oil for THC concentration, in violation of the Russian Criminal Procedure Code requirements, so therefore the prosecution has not proved how much THC was actually in Griner's vape cartridges.
Today's news reports also say that closing arguments in Griner's case will be held on Thursday, August 4. I have read that Russian judges often levy sentences immediately, but Judge Sotnikova may take months as U.S. judges often do, or because of the diplomatic games now afoot, since Griner has been given trial detention until December 20.
Griner's defense likely will include the following closing arguments, based on news reports and my understanding of Russian law from (likely incomplete) public sources.
1. While she has pleaded guilty to the prohibited conduct (actus reus), Griner did not have the requisite intent (mens rea) to commit the crime because she didn't realize that she had the vape cartridges in her luggage when she was hurriedly packing under stress. (Just speaking for myself, I find this explanation fairly weak and hard to believe.)
2. Griner's case should be dismissed, or her guilt should be questioned, or at least the sentence should minimized because the Russian Criminal Procedure Code was violated in several respects during her detention and arrest at the airport—namely, her failure to be notified of written charges within three hours, her failure to be given a lawyer soon enough, and the failure to have proper translation provided. Griner's lawyers also said today that even more violations of the Russian Criminal Procedure Code will be demonstrated at Thursday's closing argument.
3. Griner's sentence should be minimal because no one knows exactly how much THC was in the cartridges and because, at most, the amount of liquid was only 0.702 grams, which is barely over the 0.4 gram limit and 0.4 grams carries a maximum jail sentence of only 15 days.
4. Griner's sentence should be minimal because she had a valid American prescription for cannabis for injury pain, athletes worldwide use cannabis for this purpose, she has never failed a drug test in all her years playing in Russia, and there is no evidence she used used the hash oil for recreational purposes or to sell or distribute it to anyone else.
5. Griner has admitted guilt to the actus reus because she is contrite, wants to take responsibility for her accidental possession, and wants to demonstrate that she never intended to violate or disrespect Russian law. |
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 08/03/22 12:34 pm ::: |
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| Thanks Glenn for your unbiased work and keeping us informed.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/03/22 5:59 pm ::: |
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| Glenn's analysis is a reasonably accurate picture of the laws as written and perhaps even as they are applied in most cases. It seems clear that geopolitical concerns are affecting the process of this case and will presumably affect the outcome as well.
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undersized_post
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 08/04/22 10:38 am ::: |
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| jmvcity wrote: |
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/34346379/brittney-griner-found-guilty-drugs-possession-smuggling
Brittney Griner has been found guilty of drugs possession and smuggling and was sentenced to nine years in a Russian prison on Thursday.
wow |
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| The verdict had largely been considered a formality by experts, as the true length of her detainment will be determined by negotiations on a prisoner swap between the United States and Russia. |
Exactly. What this means is that Putin can and will ask for whomever he wants in a prisoner exchange, and we'll have to give him Bout et al.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 08/04/22 11:19 am ::: |
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They'll get their arms dealer.
I'm sad. And angry. And I have to remind myself that this was inevitable, another step toward the prisoner exchange. In Russian legal terms, Brittney Griner was guilty the moment they decided to arrest her.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 08/04/22 11:27 am ::: |
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This is heartbreaking. I hope the sentence is just part of their negotiation strategy. I hope they are able to get a deal done quickly but also know it took much longer for other recent swaps.
I love you BG. Stay strong.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 08/04/22 11:31 am ::: |
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| bcdawg04 wrote: |
They'll get their arms dealer.
I'm sad. And angry. And I have to remind myself that this was inevitable, another step toward the prisoner exchange. In Russian legal terms, Brittney Griner was guilty the moment they decided to arrest her. |
I pray this is all they want. They have all the leverage in this negotiation.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/04/22 11:53 am ::: |
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I mean - this was to be expected.
They weren’t going to give her five months if we put their arms dealer on the table for a trade.
I feel so terrible for Brit though.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/04/22 12:20 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
I mean - this was to be expected.
They weren’t going to give her five months if we put their arms dealer on the table for a trade.
I feel so terrible for Brit though. |
This is it exactly. Her kidnapping, conviction and sentencing have nothing to do with anything in the Russian "legal" system and everything to do with Putin getting back a Russian thug.
I get my news from those knowledgeable about international hostage taking and diplomatic prisoner exchanges because that is what determines when BG can finally come home. I'm glad the "legal" part has run its' course so the real negotiations can begin. BG was going to get a harsh sentence the minute she was kidnapped, because that was what was required by Russia to get their thug back.
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WfanFrJmp
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 08/04/22 1:02 pm ::: |
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It's my understanding that Griner was sentenced to nine years prison with credit for trial detention, which would mean 8½ years more, plus a 1 million ruble fine, which is about $16,000 USD.
This means Griner will have to rely on a prisoner swap, which I'm sure will happen because Biden is under irresistible domestic political and moral pressure to do so, almost no matter the cost. It's only a matter of how long the parties drag out the negotiations, which can proceed now that Griner is formally a prisoner.
For those few who care about the trial and sentencing details anymore:
As one who has been focused on trying to understand the trial details so I could evaluate possible sentences and sentencing "fairness", I've been continually frustrated by the failure of any media to report exactly what Russian criminal statute(s) Griner was charged under (and what statutes she has now been convicted under).
I felt pretty certain all along that a Russian prosecutor could not be politically pressured into charging an irrelevant statute and that a Russian constitutional court judge could not levy a sentence beyond her statutorily authorized discretion under the conviction statute.
From the sentence, and because the Khimki City Court website docket has now magically become available again today, I can now reconstruct the statutes with accuracy.
Griner was charged under Article 228(1), a "possession" crime, which as I've said all along carries a maximum jail sentence of three years, and which is surely all Griner pleaded guilty to.
However, as I mentioned a few times, there were also vague suggestions that she was also charged with "smuggling", which is an offense only under Article 229 or Article 229.1, which didn't seem particularly relevant to me because it applies to "[u]nlawful movement [of drugs] across the customs border of the Customs Union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community or across the State Border of the Russian Federation with member states of the Customs Union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community". This statute did not seem relevant to me because I never saw any reported facts that Griner crossed a Customs Union border, but rather went straight from the USA to Moscow.
Nevertheless, it is now clear that Griner was convicted and sentenced under Article 229.1(2)(c) because that subsection provides for a discretionary 5 to 10 year jail sentence plus a mandatory fine of 1 million rubles, which is exactly what Griner got.
So, was Griner's conviction and sentence "fair"? That has to be judged within the context of the Russian Criminal Code system, which carries much more severe punishments for drug violations than the USA, or perhaps just about any other country, and where 25% of the prison population is incarcerated for drug offenses.
If everyone with a similar fact situation to Griner's is charged and convicted under the drug smuggling statute, then the conviction was fair within the Russian context. Personally, the smuggling statute looks like a stretch to me and that the prosecutor was probably under political pressure to levy the most serious charge remotely possible. Given that, the judge's jail sentence, though on the harsh end, was within her legal discretion and the fine was mandatory under the smuggling statute.
Griner's lawyers say:
| Quote: |
| “We are very disappointed by the verdict. As legal professionals, we believe that the court should be fair to everyone regardless of nationality. The court completely ignored all the evidence of the defense, and most importantly, the guilty plea,” they said in the statement. “This contradicts the existing legal practice. Taking into account the amount of the substance (not to mention the defects of the expertise) and the plea, the verdict is absolutely unreasonable. We will certainly file an appeal.” |
To be realistic, an appeal, even if successful, is likely to take longer than even a slow prisoner swap negotiation. Which, I repeat, is highly likely to happen eventually. |
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johnjohnW
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/04/22 6:11 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
It's my understanding that Griner was sentenced to nine years prison with credit for trial detention, which would mean 8½ years more, plus a 1 million ruble fine, which is about $16,000 USD.
This means Griner will have to rely on a prisoner swap, which I'm sure will happen because Biden is under irresistible domestic political and moral pressure to do so, almost no matter the cost. It's only a matter of how long the parties drag out the negotiations, which can proceed now that Griner is formally a prisoner.
For those few who care about the trial and sentencing details anymore:
As one who has been focused on trying to understand the trial details so I could evaluate possible sentences and sentencing "fairness", I've been continually frustrated by the failure of any media to report exactly what Russian criminal statute(s) Griner was charged under (and what statutes she has now been convicted under).
I felt pretty certain all along that a Russian prosecutor could not be politically pressured into charging an irrelevant statute and that a Russian constitutional court judge could not levy a sentence beyond her statutorily authorized discretion under the conviction statute.
From the sentence, and because the Khimki City Court website docket has now magically become available again today, I can now reconstruct the statutes with accuracy.
Griner was charged under Article 228(1), a "possession" crime, which as I've said all along carries a maximum jail sentence of three years, and which is surely all Griner pleaded guilty to.
However, as I mentioned a few times, there were also vague suggestions that she was also charged with "smuggling", which is an offense only under Article 229 or Article 229.1, which didn't seem particularly relevant to me because it applies to "[u]nlawful movement [of drugs] across the customs border of the Customs Union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community or across the State Border of the Russian Federation with member states of the Customs Union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community". This statute did not seem relevant to me because I never saw any reported facts that Griner crossed a Customs Union border, but rather went straight from the USA to Moscow.
Nevertheless, it is now clear that Griner was convicted and sentenced under Article 229.1(2)(c) because that subsection provides for a discretionary 5 to 10 year jail sentence plus a mandatory fine of 1 million rubles, which is exactly what Griner got.
So, was Griner's conviction and sentence "fair"? That has to be judged within the context of the Russian Criminal Code system, which carries much more severe punishments for drug violations than the USA, or perhaps just about any other country, and where 25% of the prison population is incarcerated for drug offenses.
If everyone with a similar fact situation to Griner's is charged and convicted under the drug smuggling statute, then the conviction was fair within the Russian context. Personally, the smuggling statute looks like a stretch to me and that the prosecutor was probably under political pressure to levy the most serious charge remotely possible. Given that, the judge's jail sentence, though on the harsh end, was within her legal discretion and the fine was mandatory under the smuggling statute.
Griner's lawyers say:
| Quote: |
| “We are very disappointed by the verdict. As legal professionals, we believe that the court should be fair to everyone regardless of nationality. The court completely ignored all the evidence of the defense, and most importantly, the guilty plea,” they said in the statement. “This contradicts the existing legal practice. Taking into account the amount of the substance (not to mention the defects of the expertise) and the plea, the verdict is absolutely unreasonable. We will certainly file an appeal.” |
To be realistic, an appeal, even if successful, is likely to take longer than even a slow prisoner swap negotiation. Which, I repeat, is highly likely to happen eventually. |
There was never a legal "process." Only a script written by Putin. She has always been a hostage with the bogus script having to be followed before an exchange would be discussed. Everyone in the media knew it was a kidnapper script being followed and not a legal process so did not bother trying to follow Putin's pathetic script.
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ripleydc
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/04/22 7:03 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| There was never a legal "process." Only a script written by Putin. She has always been a hostage with the bogus script having to be followed before an exchange would be discussed. Everyone in the media knew it was a kidnapper script being followed and not a legal process so did not bother trying to follow Putin's pathetic script. |
Amen, rAf! I couldn’t bring myself to comment earlier about all this legal analysis of the Russian criminal system. I guess as someone who lives inside the Beltway (call me jaded, because admittedly I am) I knew immediately that BG was destined to be a political pawn and would face a horrendous outcome from Putin led Russia. I take no pleasure in being right; instead I am sick to my stomach. Only a prisoner exchange will get her back home and the price Putin will exact will be enormous.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 08/04/22 9:40 pm ::: |
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Too bad that some in the crowd at tonight's Merc/Sun game decided to co-opt the 42 seconds of silence.
To all those in the crowd that couldn't keep their stupid mouths shut, I ask, is 42 seconds too long to show your respect? Or did you just want it to be about you?
They could have bellowed "bring her home" for the rest of the game and I would have said 'good for them.'
Just seemed so disrespectful to the teams and others that wanted to honor BG and maybe take a moment to reflect how good we have it here.
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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/05/22 2:32 pm ::: |
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| ripleydc wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| There was never a legal "process." Only a script written by Putin. She has always been a hostage with the bogus script having to be followed before an exchange would be discussed. Everyone in the media knew it was a kidnapper script being followed and not a legal process so did not bother trying to follow Putin's pathetic script. |
Amen, rAf! I couldn’t bring myself to comment earlier about all this legal analysis of the Russian criminal system. I guess as someone who lives inside the Beltway (call me jaded, because admittedly I am) I knew immediately that BG was destined to be a political pawn and would face a horrendous outcome from Putin led Russia. I take no pleasure in being right; instead I am sick to my stomach. Only a prisoner exchange will get her back home and the price Putin will exact will be enormous. |
Yes, it's all sickening. I take no pleasure in being correct that Putin scripted the entire thing to finally get his thug (Bout) back. I can't help but note that CPAC highlighted Hungary's Putin buddy Orban, who gave the most Hitler-esque white supremacist speech to mad cheers of participants. Putin's selection of a black lesbian athlete to imprison and convict was no accident. It's all sickening. It is no secret that Putin wants fellow white supremacists like Trump in charge around the world.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 08/05/22 5:24 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Yes, it's all sickening. I take no pleasure in being correct that Putin scripted the entire thing to finally get his thug (Bout) back. |
Victor Bout was taken by the USA in 2008 and convicted in 2011 for a crime the USA wants to be the only one to commit - arming rebels. Brittney Griner began playing in Russia in 2014 and has played there every year since. Griner and Bout are easily linked if we remember how Putin is a world renowned procrastinator.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/05/22 6:32 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Yes, it's all sickening. I take no pleasure in being correct that Putin scripted the entire thing to finally get his thug (Bout) back. |
Victor Bout was taken by the USA in 2008 and convicted in 2011 for a crime the USA wants to be the only one to commit - arming rebels. Brittney Griner began playing in Russia in 2014 and has played there every year since. Griner and Bout are easily linked if we remember how Putin is a world renowned procrastinator. |
He's been trying to get Bout back ever since his conviction! The US would not previously consider giving up such a murderous thug in a deal. Putin had to go for someone who would get a lot more media attention so the US would put Bout on the table. It is sickening. Just sickening.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/05/22 6:57 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Yes, it's all sickening. I take no pleasure in being correct that Putin scripted the entire thing to finally get his thug (Bout) back. |
Victor Bout was taken by the USA in 2008 and convicted in 2011 for a crime the USA wants to be the only one to commit - arming rebels. Brittney Griner began playing in Russia in 2014 and has played there every year since. Griner and Bout are easily linked if we remember how Putin is a world renowned procrastinator. |
He's been trying to get Bout back ever since his conviction! The US would not previously consider giving up such a murderous thug in a deal. Putin had to go for someone who would get a lot more media attention so the US would put Bout on the table. It is sickening. Just sickening. |
I heard on ABC news tonight that Putin is ready to negotiate as long as US keeps it private.
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ripleydc
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/05/22 6:59 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Yes, it's all sickening. I take no pleasure in being correct that Putin scripted the entire thing to finally get his thug (Bout) back. I can't help but note that CPAC highlighted Hungary's Putin buddy Orban, who gave the most Hitler-esque white supremacist speech to mad cheers of participants. Putin's selection of a black lesbian athlete to imprison and convict was no accident. It's all sickening. It is no secret that Putin wants fellow white supremacists like Trump in charge around the world. |
The way CPAC embraced this Hilter-wannabe gave me chills, the kind you get when you realize that whatever your ailment, you’re probably not going to survive it. This turn to the Fascist Right in OUR country (previously the bastion of democracy) is something that is beyond sickening and most certainly frightening. Unfortunately, BG has been caught up in this, and it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
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