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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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 Posted: 07/07/22 12:54 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| The public pressure must be having an effect. Otherwise Ryabkov wouldn't have mentioned it. |
People in power anywhere, including in so many organizations or institutions in the U.S., often claim that public pressure is having no effect on their decisions. It's really a hilarious claim in many conflicts. The denial is usually a strong indication that public pressure IS having an effect. I think you're right about the statement from the Russian diplomat.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8233
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 07/07/22 1:31 pm ::: |
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U.S. basketball star Griner admits Russian drugs charge but denies intent
| Quote: |
U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner pleaded guilty to a drugs charge in a Russian court on Thursday but denied she had intentionally broken the law.
Griner was speaking at the second hearing of her trial on the narcotics charge that carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, days after she urged U.S. President Joe Biden to secure her release.
"I'd like to plead guilty, your honour. But there was no intent. I didn't want to break the law," Griner said, speaking quietly in English which was then translated into Russian for the court.
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
The next court hearing was scheduled for July 14.
Griner's lawyers told reporters they were hoping for the most lenient sentencing possible.
"We, as her defense, explained to her the possible consequences. Brittney stressed that she committed the crime out of carelessness, getting ready to board a plane to Russia in a hurry, not intending to break Russian law," said Maria Blagovolina, one of Griner's attorneys.
"We certainly hope this circumstance, in combination with the defence evidence, will be taken into account when passing the sentence, and it will be mild." |
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
The simplest explanation as to why Griner was arrested for carrying vape oil cartridges by on-the-spot customs officials has always been that she was in fact carrying vape oil cartridges.
The Russian criminal system doesn't appear to be particularly slower than the USA system so far, and she has now pleaded guilty at the appropriate trial stage, which makes eminent sense if she is in fact guilty. To deny guilt in the face of incontrovertible evidence would likely have worsened her sentence.
She is now denying mens rea (intent), which she will elaborate on next week, and which, if believed, could help reduce her sentence.
Again, the repetition of a maximum 10 year jail sentence in the media is incorrect if the vape oil amount has been correctly reported, 0.702 grams, and if I have correctly located the most current version of the Russian Criminal Code. The maximum jail sentence for the amount of vape oil she is alleged to have imported carries a maximum jail sentence of only three years with alternative sentences for fines only.
Griner deserves and likely will get the same punishment by the Russian courts as any other guilty person does for the same crime under similar circumstances. But her lawyers, too, are expressing hope for a light sentence for the small amount of oil she imported plus her denials of mens rea. Public pressure from the U.S. will likely have no effect on a Russian prosecutor or judge, but could have some effect on a political resolution after Griner is sentenced, assuming the sentence is not at the lighter but at the heavier end of the sentencing scale. |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9644
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| Posted: 07/07/22 5:47 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
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What is the reason for the delay in testimony? She and her lawyer knew this was coming.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66944
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 07/07/22 6:09 pm ::: |
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Brittney Griner's guilty plea doesn't mean what you think it does
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Brittney-Griner-s-guilty-plea-doesn-t-mean-what-17290560.php
| Quote: |
“What she did was acknowledge her guilt. It has no effect on the burden of proof the prosecution has to satisfy,” Butler said of the WNBA player who was detained in February and has been jailed since then in Russia.
During the Stalin era, authorities frequently tortured suspects to coerce confessions. So under current Russian law, the courts must consider whether prosecutors have evidence of the crime independent from whether there’s any confession. |
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 4243
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| Posted: 07/07/22 11:54 pm ::: |
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| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
Maybe I missed it but, no one from UMMC has made a statement about BG's situation? The oligarch hasn't said a word either...unless he's busy hiding his yachts, and jets from seizures.  |
https://basket.ugmk.com/en/press/news/116218/
I am not sure when they got their website back up. I know that there was a period of time when they removed the basketball section of the UMMC corporate website.
I suspect the owner started caring slightly less about basketball with the threat of sanctions even though they still signed players to try to win the championship. |
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7387
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 07/08/22 1:32 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
U.S. basketball star Griner admits Russian drugs charge but denies intent
| Quote: |
U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner pleaded guilty to a drugs charge in a Russian court on Thursday but denied she had intentionally broken the law.
Griner was speaking at the second hearing of her trial on the narcotics charge that carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, days after she urged U.S. President Joe Biden to secure her release.
"I'd like to plead guilty, your honour. But there was no intent. I didn't want to break the law," Griner said, speaking quietly in English which was then translated into Russian for the court.
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
The next court hearing was scheduled for July 14.
Griner's lawyers told reporters they were hoping for the most lenient sentencing possible.
"We, as her defense, explained to her the possible consequences. Brittney stressed that she committed the crime out of carelessness, getting ready to board a plane to Russia in a hurry, not intending to break Russian law," said Maria Blagovolina, one of Griner's attorneys.
"We certainly hope this circumstance, in combination with the defence evidence, will be taken into account when passing the sentence, and it will be mild." |
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
The simplest explanation as to why Griner was arrested for carrying vape oil cartridges by on-the-spot customs officials has always been that she was in fact carrying vape oil cartridges.
The Russian criminal system doesn't appear to be particularly slower than the USA system so far, and she has now pleaded guilty at the appropriate trial stage, which makes eminent sense if she is in fact guilty. To deny guilt in the face of incontrovertible evidence would likely have worsened her sentence.
She is now denying mens rea (intent), which she will elaborate on next week, and which, if believed, could help reduce her sentence.
Again, the repetition of a maximum 10 year jail sentence in the media is incorrect if the vape oil amount has been correctly reported, 0.702 grams, and if I have correctly located the most current version of the Russian Criminal Code. The maximum jail sentence for the amount of vape oil she is alleged to have imported carries a maximum jail sentence of only three years with alternative sentences for fines only.
Griner deserves and likely will get the same punishment by the Russian courts as any other guilty person does for the same crime under similar circumstances. But her lawyers, too, are expressing hope for a light sentence for the small amount of oil she imported plus her denials of mens rea. Public pressure from the U.S. will likely have no effect on a Russian prosecutor or judge, but could have some effect on a political resolution after Griner is sentenced, assuming the sentence is not at the lighter but at the heavier end of the sentencing scale. |
This assumption of BG's guilt is completely erroneous!
This is more like every other hostage who is forced to list their "crimes" in public as a condition of their possible release.
I wish those who lack any real understanding of what BG is facing would shut their yaps. She is a hostage so will say whatever they tell her to say to keep option the possibility her release can be secured. It is absolutely NOT NOT NOT an "admission of guilt" by BG. Of course the Russians want us wondering if she really did try to bring cannabis cartridges into the country so they don't look like the kidnappers they are. Plenty of gullible people will fall for that ploy.
As per US Government, she is unlawfully detained - a hostage. The "Russian legal system" is nothing more than an arm of Putin in a fascist regime, much like Trump tried to do. We will see if Trump succeeds at becoming a fascist ruler here. Cloaking political imprisonments in legalese is in the fascist playbook that we are watching play out. Luckily for BG, she has people who understand that this is a hostage situation and not a legal one at all so are advising her to play her part as a hostage in a fascist state.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: 07/08/22 6:36 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
U.S. basketball star Griner admits Russian drugs charge but denies intent
| Quote: |
U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner pleaded guilty to a drugs charge in a Russian court on Thursday but denied she had intentionally broken the law.
Griner was speaking at the second hearing of her trial on the narcotics charge that carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, days after she urged U.S. President Joe Biden to secure her release.
"I'd like to plead guilty, your honour. But there was no intent. I didn't want to break the law," Griner said, speaking quietly in English which was then translated into Russian for the court.
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
The next court hearing was scheduled for July 14.
Griner's lawyers told reporters they were hoping for the most lenient sentencing possible.
"We, as her defense, explained to her the possible consequences. Brittney stressed that she committed the crime out of carelessness, getting ready to board a plane to Russia in a hurry, not intending to break Russian law," said Maria Blagovolina, one of Griner's attorneys.
"We certainly hope this circumstance, in combination with the defence evidence, will be taken into account when passing the sentence, and it will be mild." |
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
The simplest explanation as to why Griner was arrested for carrying vape oil cartridges by on-the-spot customs officials has always been that she was in fact carrying vape oil cartridges.
The Russian criminal system doesn't appear to be particularly slower than the USA system so far, and she has now pleaded guilty at the appropriate trial stage, which makes eminent sense if she is in fact guilty. To deny guilt in the face of incontrovertible evidence would likely have worsened her sentence.
She is now denying mens rea (intent), which she will elaborate on next week, and which, if believed, could help reduce her sentence.
Again, the repetition of a maximum 10 year jail sentence in the media is incorrect if the vape oil amount has been correctly reported, 0.702 grams, and if I have correctly located the most current version of the Russian Criminal Code. The maximum jail sentence for the amount of vape oil she is alleged to have imported carries a maximum jail sentence of only three years with alternative sentences for fines only.
Griner deserves and likely will get the same punishment by the Russian courts as any other guilty person does for the same crime under similar circumstances. But her lawyers, too, are expressing hope for a light sentence for the small amount of oil she imported plus her denials of mens rea. Public pressure from the U.S. will likely have no effect on a Russian prosecutor or judge, but could have some effect on a political resolution after Griner is sentenced, assuming the sentence is not at the lighter but at the heavier end of the sentencing scale. |
This assumption of BG's guilt is completely erroneous!
This is more like every other hostage who is forced to list their "crimes" in public as a condition of their possible release.
I wish those who lack any real understanding of what BG is facing would shut their yaps. She is a hostage so will say whatever they tell her to say to keep option the possibility her release can be secured. It is absolutely NOT NOT NOT an "admission of guilt" by BG. Of course the Russians want us wondering if she really did try to bring cannabis cartridges into the country so they don't look like the kidnappers they are. Plenty of gullible people will fall for that ploy.
As per US Government, she is unlawfully detained - a hostage. The "Russian legal system" is nothing more than an arm of Putin in a fascist regime, much like Trump tried to do. We will see if Trump succeeds at becoming a fascist ruler here. Cloaking political imprisonments in legalese is in the fascist playbook that we are watching play out. Luckily for BG, she has people who understand that this is a hostage situation and not a legal one at all so are advising her to play her part as a hostage in a fascist state. |
I believe she was set up. I cannot even remember the last time I flew, but I do remember having to trash some lotion or something because of the size of the container. Would BG have gotten thru U.S. TSA with vape cartridges in her luggage?
_________________
Be kind, be careful, be yourself
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 763
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: 07/09/22 3:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| wnbafan wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
U.S. basketball star Griner admits Russian drugs charge but denies intent
| Quote: |
U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner pleaded guilty to a drugs charge in a Russian court on Thursday but denied she had intentionally broken the law.
Griner was speaking at the second hearing of her trial on the narcotics charge that carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, days after she urged U.S. President Joe Biden to secure her release.
"I'd like to plead guilty, your honour. But there was no intent. I didn't want to break the law," Griner said, speaking quietly in English which was then translated into Russian for the court.
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
The next court hearing was scheduled for July 14.
Griner's lawyers told reporters they were hoping for the most lenient sentencing possible.
"We, as her defense, explained to her the possible consequences. Brittney stressed that she committed the crime out of carelessness, getting ready to board a plane to Russia in a hurry, not intending to break Russian law," said Maria Blagovolina, one of Griner's attorneys.
"We certainly hope this circumstance, in combination with the defence evidence, will be taken into account when passing the sentence, and it will be mild." |
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
The simplest explanation as to why Griner was arrested for carrying vape oil cartridges by on-the-spot customs officials has always been that she was in fact carrying vape oil cartridges.
The Russian criminal system doesn't appear to be particularly slower than the USA system so far, and she has now pleaded guilty at the appropriate trial stage, which makes eminent sense if she is in fact guilty. To deny guilt in the face of incontrovertible evidence would likely have worsened her sentence.
She is now denying mens rea (intent), which she will elaborate on next week, and which, if believed, could help reduce her sentence.
Again, the repetition of a maximum 10 year jail sentence in the media is incorrect if the vape oil amount has been correctly reported, 0.702 grams, and if I have correctly located the most current version of the Russian Criminal Code. The maximum jail sentence for the amount of vape oil she is alleged to have imported carries a maximum jail sentence of only three years with alternative sentences for fines only.
Griner deserves and likely will get the same punishment by the Russian courts as any other guilty person does for the same crime under similar circumstances. But her lawyers, too, are expressing hope for a light sentence for the small amount of oil she imported plus her denials of mens rea. Public pressure from the U.S. will likely have no effect on a Russian prosecutor or judge, but could have some effect on a political resolution after Griner is sentenced, assuming the sentence is not at the lighter but at the heavier end of the sentencing scale. |
This assumption of BG's guilt is completely erroneous!
This is more like every other hostage who is forced to list their "crimes" in public as a condition of their possible release.
I wish those who lack any real understanding of what BG is facing would shut their yaps. She is a hostage so will say whatever they tell her to say to keep option the possibility her release can be secured. It is absolutely NOT NOT NOT an "admission of guilt" by BG. Of course the Russians want us wondering if she really did try to bring cannabis cartridges into the country so they don't look like the kidnappers they are. Plenty of gullible people will fall for that ploy.
As per US Government, she is unlawfully detained - a hostage. The "Russian legal system" is nothing more than an arm of Putin in a fascist regime, much like Trump tried to do. We will see if Trump succeeds at becoming a fascist ruler here. Cloaking political imprisonments in legalese is in the fascist playbook that we are watching play out. Luckily for BG, she has people who understand that this is a hostage situation and not a legal one at all so are advising her to play her part as a hostage in a fascist state. |
I believe she was set up. I cannot even remember the last time I flew, but I do remember having to trash some lotion or something because of the size of the container. Would BG have gotten thru U.S. TSA with vape cartridges in her luggage? |
Yes she would have gotten through TSA with vape cartridges. Vape cartridges are not a threat to airline or passenger safety. They aren't against the rules. I recently left TSA after 10.5 years and vape cartridges aren't even stopped. Only very new officers stop them because they can sometimes look like torch lighters, which can't go through. Bag check is done and when the officer sees the vape, it goes through. She wasn't set up. She broke Russian law and might have to pay for it with jail time. Hopefully she and others get home soon, but their laws and legal system are not our laws and legal system, so who knows.
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 763
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: 07/09/22 3:15 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7387
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 07/09/22 4:40 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| wnbafan wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
U.S. basketball star Griner admits Russian drugs charge but denies intent
| Quote: |
U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner pleaded guilty to a drugs charge in a Russian court on Thursday but denied she had intentionally broken the law.
Griner was speaking at the second hearing of her trial on the narcotics charge that carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, days after she urged U.S. President Joe Biden to secure her release.
"I'd like to plead guilty, your honour. But there was no intent. I didn't want to break the law," Griner said, speaking quietly in English which was then translated into Russian for the court.
"I'd like to give my testimony later. I need time to prepare," she added.
The next court hearing was scheduled for July 14.
Griner's lawyers told reporters they were hoping for the most lenient sentencing possible.
"We, as her defense, explained to her the possible consequences. Brittney stressed that she committed the crime out of carelessness, getting ready to board a plane to Russia in a hurry, not intending to break Russian law," said Maria Blagovolina, one of Griner's attorneys.
"We certainly hope this circumstance, in combination with the defence evidence, will be taken into account when passing the sentence, and it will be mild." |
This all makes sense except for the erroneously repeated maximum jail sentence.
The simplest explanation as to why Griner was arrested for carrying vape oil cartridges by on-the-spot customs officials has always been that she was in fact carrying vape oil cartridges.
The Russian criminal system doesn't appear to be particularly slower than the USA system so far, and she has now pleaded guilty at the appropriate trial stage, which makes eminent sense if she is in fact guilty. To deny guilt in the face of incontrovertible evidence would likely have worsened her sentence.
She is now denying mens rea (intent), which she will elaborate on next week, and which, if believed, could help reduce her sentence.
Again, the repetition of a maximum 10 year jail sentence in the media is incorrect if the vape oil amount has been correctly reported, 0.702 grams, and if I have correctly located the most current version of the Russian Criminal Code. The maximum jail sentence for the amount of vape oil she is alleged to have imported carries a maximum jail sentence of only three years with alternative sentences for fines only.
Griner deserves and likely will get the same punishment by the Russian courts as any other guilty person does for the same crime under similar circumstances. But her lawyers, too, are expressing hope for a light sentence for the small amount of oil she imported plus her denials of mens rea. Public pressure from the U.S. will likely have no effect on a Russian prosecutor or judge, but could have some effect on a political resolution after Griner is sentenced, assuming the sentence is not at the lighter but at the heavier end of the sentencing scale. |
This assumption of BG's guilt is completely erroneous!
This is more like every other hostage who is forced to list their "crimes" in public as a condition of their possible release.
I wish those who lack any real understanding of what BG is facing would shut their yaps. She is a hostage so will say whatever they tell her to say to keep option the possibility her release can be secured. It is absolutely NOT NOT NOT an "admission of guilt" by BG. Of course the Russians want us wondering if she really did try to bring cannabis cartridges into the country so they don't look like the kidnappers they are. Plenty of gullible people will fall for that ploy.
As per US Government, she is unlawfully detained - a hostage. The "Russian legal system" is nothing more than an arm of Putin in a fascist regime, much like Trump tried to do. We will see if Trump succeeds at becoming a fascist ruler here. Cloaking political imprisonments in legalese is in the fascist playbook that we are watching play out. Luckily for BG, she has people who understand that this is a hostage situation and not a legal one at all so are advising her to play her part as a hostage in a fascist state. |
I believe she was set up. I cannot even remember the last time I flew, but I do remember having to trash some lotion or something because of the size of the container. Would BG have gotten thru U.S. TSA with vape cartridges in her luggage? |
Yes she would have gotten through TSA with vape cartridges. Vape cartridges are not a threat to airline or passenger safety. They aren't against the rules. I recently left TSA after 10.5 years and vape cartridges aren't even stopped. Only very new officers stop them because they can sometimes look like torch lighters, which can't go through. Bag check is done and when the officer sees the vape, it goes through. She wasn't set up. She broke Russian law and might have to pay for it with jail time. Hopefully she and others get home soon, but their laws and legal system are not our laws and legal system, so who knows. |
And how in holy hell do you think you KNOW this?
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 669
Location: Chicago
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: 07/09/22 6:15 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
There are no hard and fast rules - individuals choose the terminology they want.
I know hetero married women who kept their family (rather than "maiden") name and refer to themselves as either Ms. or Mrs. For others, it's very important to be called Mrs. Some lesbians see Mrs. as too heteronormative so shun Mrs. and just use their name or refer to themselves/prefer to be referred to as Ms.
I've never been married but never understood the concept of giving up one's family name after marriage. I would have either hyphenated or used both. Because of my age, folks often call me Mrs., and I tell them "That's my mother!" 
On the TV series "Maude" from the early 1970s, Florida the maid and Maude discussed the terminology, since Ms. was new. Florida pointed out how some folks had used "Miz" for years because it covered for when one didn't know a woman's marital status. Her take was that most women were proud to be Ms. until they could proudly proclaim that they were a Mrs.!  |
Ah, family name, I like that!
I haven't been married for 40 years. After my divorce, I embraced Ms. And would write it in when it wasn't a checkbox option (I'm that old), even when I was still using my married name, which I kept until my kids were in their teens. It's really annoying now when I am called Mrs with my family name, but at my age I have learned to let it go.
_________________
Be kind, be careful, be yourself
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3517
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| Posted: 07/09/22 10:06 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
Maybe it's a regional thing because it's fairly common in the northeast, especially for professional women.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2817
Location: New York
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| Posted: 07/09/22 12:38 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
Maybe it's a regional thing because it's fairly common in the northeast, especially for professional women. |
Yes it is in the NE, you're correct.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1848
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| Posted: 07/09/22 12:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
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https://www.theknot.com/content/difference-between-miss-ms-mrs
| Quote: |
Ms. meaning
The title "Ms." is a form of address used both in British English and American English before the surname or full name of any woman regardless of her marital status (a neutral alternative to "Mrs." or "Miss"). "'Ms.' is kind of a catch all, and can be used interchangeably between situations," explains Falvey. "This would be acceptable for a married or unmarried woman and also for divorced women." |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8956
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| Posted: 07/09/22 3:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
I was typing some name tags at work the other day. It was for a party for doctors and their guests. Several of the wives of the doctors/admin were Ms. Jane Doe while their husband was Dr. John Smith/Mr. John Smith. And this is in ultra-conservative Indiana.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3517
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| Posted: 07/09/22 5:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
I was typing some name tags at work the other day. It was for a party for doctors and their guests. Several of the wives of the doctors/admin were Ms. Jane Doe while their husband was Dr. John Smith/Mr. John Smith. And this is in ultra-conservative Indiana. |
No Dr. Jane Does?
One of my friends is a doctor who went through college, medical school, residency, and fellowship training, accumulating a whole pile of diplomas, certifications, medical licenses, and other professional paperwork, all with her maiden/family name. The week after she finished her training, she got married and accepted a job in another state. She planned on taking her husband's last name, partly because she was pregnant. The new state refused to issue her a medical license with the husband's last name because all of her credentials had her maiden name on them, even though she supplied the licensing board with her marriage certificate. In turn, hospitals, health insurers, malpractice carriers, and all the other entities with a finger in this paperwork pie used the name on the medical license for their credentialing processes. She finally gave up fighting the system and stuck with her maiden name.
This happened about 15 years ago. Hopefully the regulations have changed by now. However, "naming" issues don't happen necessarily because lesbians are lesbians, they happen because women are women.
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threadkiller1201
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 07/09/22 6:00 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
I was typing some name tags at work the other day. It was for a party for doctors and their guests. Several of the wives of the doctors/admin were Ms. Jane Doe while their husband was Dr. John Smith/Mr. John Smith. And this is in ultra-conservative Indiana. |
Thanks, Ex-Ref, for this reality check. That we actually have to take space on a thread about Brittney Griner being imprisoned in Russia for this alleged mistreatment of Cherelle Griner (for her being called "Ms. Griner") is absurd.
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threadkiller1201
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| Posted: 07/09/22 6:19 pm ::: |
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https://time.com/6193885/brittney-griner-prisoner-swap-biden-russia/
“So where do things go from here? One solution could be Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer found guilty of conspiring to sell weapons to a terrorist organization in 2011. A swap involving Bout, who is serving a 25-year sentence in a federal prison, could free both Griner and Whalen.
Russian officials have vocalized their wish to see Bout returned home. In September of 2021, Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov mentioned two Russian prisoners in the U.S. for whom he said the country was willing to hold talks, according to Russian news agency TASS: Bout and Konstantin Yaroshenko, a pilot sentenced to 20 years in 2011, for drug smuggling. In April, Yaroshenko was returned to Russia in exchange for Trevor Reed, a former U.S. marine held in Russia since 2019. Reed was charged with assaulting two police officers.
So with Yaroshenko secured, it stands to reason the Bout might be next on Russia’s wish list. Shira A. Scheindlin, the judge who presided over Bout’s trial—and sentenced him—has long held that the 25-year sentence she was required by statue to give Bout was too harsh for his crime. In a sting operation in Thailand, Bout agree to provide weapons to undercover DEA agents he believed represented FARC, a Colombian rebel group. (The State Department removed FARC from the list of terrorist organizations last year.) “This defendant responded to an opportunity to sell arms presented to him by others, but no evidence was adduced either at trial or pretrial, for that matter, that this defendant was actively looking for an opportunity to become involved with a terrorist organization, such as FARC, Al-Qaeda, or Hezbollah, nor was there any evidence introduced that he was looking for a way to attack Americans rather than embracing an opportunity presented to him,” Scheindlin said at Bout’s 2012 sentencing. “Yes, he embraced an opportunity to make money by supplying a terrorist organization and claimed he had the means to do that. Of course, we don’t know for sure that he could have. But he did not seek out an opportunity because of any long-held ideological based antipathy toward Americans or American policies.”
Today, Scheindlin says that if statutory minimums hadn’t restricted her, she would have sentenced Bout to 10 years: which is about how long he has been in prison for his crime. In the sentencing hearing, Scheindlin acknowledged that Bout “has sold weapons to some of the most vicious regimes in the world and has demonstrated that he would do so again if the opportunity presented itself.” He’s earned the moniker “Merchant of Death” and the 2005 movie Lord of War, starring Nicholas Cage, is based on his life. But Scheindlin believes Bout has already paid a sufficient debt. “I don’t think it’s a big risk to trade him back,” says Scheindlin. ” I think he’s long out of this business. Whatever contacts he had, he doesn’t have any more. I frankly think that after this many years in jail, his desire is to go straight and never risk going back to jail, right? It’s too awful an experience. So I don’t think he’s a danger to the U.S. in any way or to anybody else in the world.”
Scheindlin doubts a straight Bout for Grinder trade works politically for the U.S., given the difference in severity between the infractions, alleged or otherwise. “The thought of making an equivalence of such minor violation and such a major long-term criminal is sort of morally repugnant,” says Scheindlin. Adding in Whalen, an accused spy whom the U.S. has also designated as wrongfully detained, evens things out.”
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8956
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| Posted: 07/09/22 9:02 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Hawkeye wrote: |
| And of course she isn't given the proper respect from the US Chief of Mission in Moscow, Elizabeth Rood. She referred to her as Ms. Griner when she is married. She should be referred to as Mrs. Griner...but then she's married to a woman and not a man, so there ya go. |
Enlighten me from my ignorance. Plenty of married heterosexual women go by Ms. Maiden-name after they're married. Is this never done by lesbian couples? Or BG's personal preference? What is the protocol? |
I've never seen a hetero married woman go by or referred by Ms. EVER |
I was typing some name tags at work the other day. It was for a party for doctors and their guests. Several of the wives of the doctors/admin were Ms. Jane Doe while their husband was Dr. John Smith/Mr. John Smith. And this is in ultra-conservative Indiana. |
No Dr. Jane Does?
One of my friends is a doctor who went through college, medical school, residency, and fellowship training, accumulating a whole pile of diplomas, certifications, medical licenses, and other professional paperwork, all with her maiden/family name. The week after she finished her training, she got married and accepted a job in another state. She planned on taking her husband's last name, partly because she was pregnant. The new state refused to issue her a medical license with the husband's last name because all of her credentials had her maiden name on them, even though she supplied the licensing board with her marriage certificate. In turn, hospitals, health insurers, malpractice carriers, and all the other entities with a finger in this paperwork pie used the name on the medical license for their credentialing processes. She finally gave up fighting the system and stuck with her maiden name.
This happened about 15 years ago. Hopefully the regulations have changed by now. However, "naming" issues don't happen necessarily because lesbians are lesbians, they happen because women are women. |
There were a couple of Dr. Jane Does. Since the party had been rescheduled, a few had other plans already. I know that one was on a ski trip and one had a child's band competition.
One of my docs got married after getting licensed. Then 5-6 years later, she changed her name. I said something to the nurse about not knowing she had changed her name and apparently she had waited until time to renew her license. Apparently it's crazy expensive to change it mid-stream.
Now, let's get back to BG.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 07/09/22 9:30 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Now, let's get back to BG. |
Yes. Please.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 07/10/22 5:43 am ::: |
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https://abcnews.go.com/International/gov-bill-richardson-travel-moscow-talks-freeing-brittney/story?id=86531091
Former Gov. Bill Richardson to travel to Moscow for talks on freeing Brittney Griner: Source
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| Former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson is planning to travel to Russia in the near future for talks aimed at finding a deal to free the detained WNBA star Brittney Griner, a source with knowledge of the proposed trip told ABC News. |
Obviously, we should be cautious as this doesn't mean the talks will be effective, but clearly there appears to be interest on both sides for a swap.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 07/10/22 10:39 am ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| Obviously, we should be cautious as this doesn't mean the talks will be effective, but clearly there appears to be interest on both sides for a swap. |
Thanks for posting this. No guarantees, of course, but I view this as a positive development. Richardson has a record of being involved in such matters. He wouldn't be going to Russia unless someone of significance had agreed to meet with him and he felt it wasn't a complete sham.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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