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Las Vegas Aces 2022
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Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 10454
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 8:04 pm    ::: Las Vegas Aces 2022 Reply Reply with quote

What an upset... Exclamation

Before the season, I would have bet my house on LV winning it all. They had everything going for them. After McCoughtry went down, I changed it to betting my car on LV winning it all, as they still had enough to be a Finals lock and a Title favorite. What happened? Shocked

There are all kinds of excuses available, but the Aces should have had enough depth and experience to overcome them. Especially against an under-loaded and nicked-up team such as Phoenix.. I was looking forward to seeing how they do vs Chicago, but now I guess we'll never know.. Confused

So where does Las Vegas go from here? They're already a loaded team, they'll get Angel back next year, Iliana Rupert could join them, etc, so they should run it back... again. Maybe 3rd time's a charm? Twisted Evil



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Last edited by Admiral_Needa on 10/08/21 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trying to horn in on @Shades' racket, I see.



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johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So prescient.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After Vegas maxes out Wilson

They have about 520K to sign a minimum of 5 players and

Cambage
McCougrty
are UFA

(I would like them both to return but they would have to play for about 150-165K a piece to pull it off. Realistically they may have to pick one or the other or they could move on from both and look at other free agents like Charles, Russell, Dolson, Deshileds, MHA, etc)


R. Williams UFA
Stokes UFA
and Park Reserved are all out of contract as well

they also have the #11 pick in the first round of the draft in 22




Last edited by J-Spoon on 10/08/21 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Should the Aces even try to bring back Cambage? That seems to be its own question without a consensus answer.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Should the Aces even try to bring back Cambage? That seems to be its own question without a consensus answer.


IDK I feel like Cambage likes Vegas and Vegas like Cambage.

On the court Cambage still has value but this season it has been hard to quantify how much. (Tonight for example Vegas was +15 with her on the floor).

However I can see Cambage or Vegas deciding to go in a different direction. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 10/08/21 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
they also have the #11 pick in the first round of the draft in 22


Last year’s #12 pick might come in really handy.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Should the Aces even try to bring back Cambage? That seems to be its own question without a consensus answer.


Cambage has always lacked the mental and physical toughness to be the centerpiece of a championship team. Evil Bill had the right idea making the second or third option. If she's satisfied with that then they should bring her back.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
they also have the #11 pick in the first round of the draft in 22


Last year’s #12 pick might come in really handy.


I forgot about Rupert.

With the Worlds being right after the W season I am not confident with the French players showing up in 22 but it would be great fro Vegas if she did (wouldn't be bad for the Liberty either).


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I suspect they will have to let BayBay go, which is too bad since she's been quite valuable for them. But it will open up a spot for Plum to start. She really is their energizer bunny. And presumably they sign Angel which will let Jackie Young start...on the bench. Actually Young may have her most value ITM so perhaps they should try to trade her. I'm just not sure what they would look for and she is relatively cheap and does provide a defensive presence...off the bench.


readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I suspect they will have to let BayBay go, which is too bad since she's been quite valuable for them. But it will open up a spot for Plum to start. She really is their energizer bunny. And presumably they sign Angel which will let Jackie Young start...on the bench. Actually Young may have her most value ITM so perhaps they should try to trade her. I'm just not sure what they would look for and she is relatively cheap and does provide a defensive presence...off the bench.


A taller wing who can shoot and play solid D. Allisha Gray.



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johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 10/08/21 11:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How convinced are we Angel comes back?


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 12:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I suspect they will have to let BayBay go, which is too bad since she's been quite valuable for them. But it will open up a spot for Plum to start. She really is their energizer bunny. And presumably they sign Angel which will let Jackie Young start...on the bench. Actually Young may have her most value ITM so perhaps they should try to trade her. I'm just not sure what they would look for and she is relatively cheap and does provide a defensive presence...off the bench.


A taller wing who can shoot and play solid D. Allisha Gray.


She costs too much and I don't think Dallas would let her go anyway.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6776



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PostPosted: 10/09/21 12:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I suspect they will have to let BayBay go, which is too bad since she's been quite valuable for them. But it will open up a spot for Plum to start. She really is their energizer bunny. And presumably they sign Angel which will let Jackie Young start...on the bench. Actually Young may have her most value ITM so perhaps they should try to trade her. I'm just not sure what they would look for and she is relatively cheap and does provide a defensive presence...off the bench.


A taller wing who can shoot and play solid D. Allisha Gray.


She costs too much and I don't think Dallas would let her go anyway.


You know who could fit and probably wouldn't cost too much (and you don't even have to give up anything for her)

Crystal Bradford


Milks26



Joined: 25 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 3:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lish ain't leaving just yet.

I'd move on from Cambage if I was Vegas though



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2811
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 7:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Milks26 wrote:
Lish ain't leaving just yet.

I'd move on from Cambage if I was Vegas though


Two things:

1. Wilson was exposed a bit. She either has to develop a perimeter game and morph herself into a stretch 4 or dump Cambage, get her a stretch 4 that doesn't need to play in the lane and just have her be the 5. Those two, with the games they have now-are just not good together. It works in the regular season, but not a playoff series. When Phx was at full roster in games 1, 2, and 3....Wilson was almost a non factor. She couldn't do much with a defensive post game like Phx because she is a bit one dimensional. She is a great player-but she is a 5 that plays the 4, on a team with an elite 5.

2. Do whatever you have to do to maximize Chelsea Gray-she is the most talented player on the roster and she was better in LA.


Force10rulz



Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 1966
Location: Puget Sound


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PostPosted: 10/09/21 7:29 am    ::: Re: Las Vegas Aces 2022 Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
What an upset... Exclamation

Before the season, I would have bet my house on LV winning it all. They had everything going for them. After McCoughtry went down, I changed it to betting my car on LV winning it all, as they still had enough to be a Finals lock and a Title favorite. What happened? Shocked

There are all kinds of excuses available, but the Aces should have had enough depth and experience to overcome them. Especially against an under-loaded and nicked-up team such as Phoenix.. I was looking forward to seeing how they do vs Chicago, but now I guess we'll never know.. Confused

So where does Las Vegas go from here? They're already a loaded team, they'll get Angel back next year, Iliana Rupert could join them, etc, so they should run it back... again. Maybe 3rd time's a charm? Twisted Evil


They have no chemistry. It’s that simple.



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DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 8:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I suspect they will have to let BayBay go, which is too bad since she's been quite valuable for them. But it will open up a spot for Plum to start. She really is their energizer bunny. And presumably they sign Angel which will let Jackie Young start...on the bench. Actually Young may have her most value ITM so perhaps they should try to trade her. I'm just not sure what they would look for and she is relatively cheap and does provide a defensive presence...off the bench.


A taller wing who can shoot and play solid D. Allisha Gray.



Really....it's like that, smdh!!!!


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16346
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 10/09/21 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wilson and Cambage together aren't as good as the sum of their parts. It's the same issue as Jones and Thomas in CT. When your two best players are best at the same position, you have a problem.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Wilson and Cambage together aren't as good as the sum of their parts. It's the same issue as Jones and Thomas in CT. When your two best players are best at the same position, you have a problem.


The problem is, will Laimbeer ever try using Wilson more as a 5 than a 4? He had a golden opportunity to do so last year with Cambage not a part of things, but apparently still felt desperate enough to snag Carolyn Swords from his own front office. Razz

I don't really know what this Aces team is about. Wilson & Cambage are theoretically a bruising enough post duo to where you'd think the team is supposed to be a slower, defense-oriented, grind-it-out team. But they're essentially the opposite of that...


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 10/09/21 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Wilson and Cambage together aren't as good as the sum of their parts. It's the same issue as Jones and Thomas in CT. When your two best players are best at the same position, you have a problem.


The problem is, will Laimbeer ever try using Wilson more as a 5 than a 4? He had a golden opportunity to do so last year with Cambage not a part of things, but apparently still felt desperate enough to snag Carolyn Swords from his own front office. Razz

I don't really know what this Aces team is about. Wilson & Cambage are theoretically a bruising enough post duo to where you'd think the team is supposed to be a slower, defense-oriented, grind-it-out team. But they're essentially the opposite of that...


Neither of them play hard consistently. Liz stops to argue with the refs and Aja spends most of her time in her own head. Besides, Gray, Plum, Hamby, and Williams aren't slow, grind-it-out players.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 10/09/21 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In brief: they have a bunch of really good players. But they don't nec. mesh well with each other. They start three players who can't shoot threes except in their dreams, plus Gray who can shoot them but only does so at low volume. That means one real three shooter on the floor. This is a major issue when playing any team with half a brain and some decent defenders. You see defenses regularly sag off Wilson and Young in order to pack the paint. That won't change much if Angel replaces Young. Angel is better than Young in pretty much every way, but she still isn't a three shooter.


ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2811
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 10/10/21 9:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
In brief: they have a bunch of really good players. But they don't nec. mesh well with each other. They start three players who can't shoot threes except in their dreams, plus Gray who can shoot them but only does so at low volume. That means one real three shooter on the floor. This is a major issue when playing any team with half a brain and some decent defenders. You see defenses regularly sag off Wilson and Young in order to pack the paint. That won't change much if Angel replaces Young. Angel is better than Young in pretty much every way, but she still isn't a three shooter.


Angel is 35 coming off two ACL tears in 3 years-you still think she'll be better than Young?


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 10/10/21 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Young isn't a three-point shooter and that isn't her role on this team. She's been used as a slasher, get into the paint, stop and pop, get to the rim, or draw a foul. She's been effective in that role, even though she had four pretty bad games in this series.


Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 10/10/21 2:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Angel is 35 coming off two ACL tears in 3 years-you still think she'll be better than Young?

McCoughtry is still much better than Young, in at least one important regard: she's the only player on the team, besides Gray, who has an elite-level ability to make plays for herself, and her teammates. She's also the only player besides Gray whom, if a big has a mismatch, or is open underneath the basket, I would trust to get them a good look.

I reject the premise that Cambage and Wilson can't play together. When the Aces bring Hamby in for Cambage, they often end up running plays for Hamby, in the post, that they should be running for Cambage, but inexplicably don't, and Wilson is still playing facing the basket, in those sets. Also, the Aces are really bad at re-posting: if the first look inside isn't a good one, they'll swing the ball around, and forget about the big, entirely. As far as Wilson playing center, I see her as the Anthony Davis of the WNBA, in that respect: she might have the size, athleticism and skillset to play the position, but if she doesn't have the temperament to do it, it's not going to matter. She plays like she considers herself to be a power forward, whether she "ought" to be playing center, or not.

The Plum situation is a bit of a conundrum, to me. I disagree that she needs to start, as I think that maintaining balance and continuity between the starters and reserves is important, and I think that starting Plum hurts Vegas' bench, more than it helps their starting lineup. That being said, Plum has certainly shown that she can handle a starter's role, and has earned starter's minutes. And, if she decides that that's the cost of her staying with the Aces, it's going to put the team in a tough spot. If I were running that team... I dunno, I guess I'd cross my fingers, and hope that I could sell Plum on being the leader of the bench unit?

Selfishly, I would prefer if the Aces keep Cambage and McCoughtry, because I don't want my two favorite players in the league to be on different teams. That might not be what's best for the team, but I don't particularly consider myself to be an Aces fan, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



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