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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/03/22 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Han Xu Is Unlike Any Player The WNBA Has Seen

Quote:
“Since I was young, shooting is always what I’m good at,” Han said through her translator, Cindy Chen, as we chatted courtside prior to a Liberty game earlier this month. “And I want to show it on this stage as well. And when shooting, I feel like when I don’t think too much, I don’t overthink, nobody can guard me.”


Thanks for posting this great piece. It's very exciting to consider how good Han can perhaps be when she's had two or three full WNBA seasons. I dearly hope she'll be able to continue playing here--and for the Liberty!



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PostPosted: 08/03/22 8:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I vividly remember when presumably all of us who are Liberty fans got the thrilling news that we'd get the first draft pick and that Sabrina Ionescu would be coming to New York.

I vividly remember--even before Sabrina began her WNBA career but especially last season--when there were those on RebKell who posted that Sabrina would never justify our hopes and expectations. That she was too short, too slow, not really a point guard, not ideal for a #2 guard, etc. etc.

As this season has proceeded, I believe we can conclusively say: Sabrina is the star we hoped and believed she would be. She's a threat for a triple double every night. She obviously has great qualities as a leader. And when the game is on the line, possession after possession, the ball is going to go to Sabrina. The other team will completely focus on her. And most of the time she will somehow make it happen.

Tonight's final basket surely wasn't the way Sandy Brondello would have scripted it. But Sabrina scored. Of course.

Those of us who are fans of any team sport don't always get to root for a great player. I feel lucky.



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 08/04/22 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/jess-sims-is-joining-college-gameday-as-a-reporter.html

Liberty in arena host Jess Sims is getting quite a promotion. She'll be working ESPN's College Game Day.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 7:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I vividly remember when presumably all of us who are Liberty fans got the thrilling news that we'd get the first draft pick and that Sabrina Ionescu would be coming to New York.

I vividly remember--even before Sabrina began her WNBA career but especially last season--when there were those on RebKell who posted that Sabrina would never justify our hopes and expectations. That she was too short, too slow, not really a point guard, not ideal for a #2 guard, etc. etc.

As this season has proceeded, I believe we can conclusively say: Sabrina is the star we hoped and believed she would be. She's a threat for a triple double every night. She obviously has great qualities as a leader. And when the game is on the line, possession after possession, the ball is going to go to Sabrina. The other team will completely focus on her. And most of the time she will somehow make it happen.

Tonight's final basket surely wasn't the way Sandy Brondello would have scripted it. But Sabrina scored. Of course.

Those of us who are fans of any team sport don't always get to root for a great player. I feel lucky.


Last night was what it was but yes Sabrina shows up pretty consistently from an intangibles standpoint. And she’s learning little things (getting to the foul line, working refs) that I think will aid in her growth. She’s been placed in the very difficult position of having to carry an otherwise limited team, not an easy task.

Sue Bird has placed on teams with Stewart and Loyd. Also with Jackson and Cash. Lindsay Whalen has played with Moore, Fowles, Augustus and Brunson. All on the same teams. Sabrina’s best player has been either Howard or Laney the last two years and they’ve not played together for something like 47 of the team’s games. A number likely to rise with Howard’s injury last night.

Looking at what it takes to win championships, look at the above along with a team generally being healthy.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Last night was what it was but yes Sabrina shows up pretty consistently from an intangibles standpoint. And she’s learning little things (getting to the foul line, working refs) that I think will aid in her growth. She’s been placed in the very difficult position of having to carry an otherwise limited team, not an easy task.

Sue Bird has placed on teams with Stewart and Loyd. Also with Jackson and Cash. Lindsay Whalen has played with Moore, Fowles, Augustus and Brunson. All on the same teams. Sabrina’s best player has been either Howard or Laney the last two years and they’ve not played together for something like 47 of the team’s games. A number likely to rise with Howard’s injury last night.

Looking at what it takes to win championships, look at the above along with a team generally being healthy.


Absolutely right. And if we look to the NBA there are many comparable examples.

I'll just mention one of my great heroes because of his recent death. People talk endlessly of Michael Jordan's six NBA titles; Bill Russell won ELEVEN, the last two as player-coach. His Celtics teams consistently beat teams that had the incomparable Wilt Chamberlain and lots of other outstanding players.

Bill Russell was crucial to all those 11 titles, but surely didn't do it alone. In his early years, he was on the court with Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, Tommy Heinsohn, and other top players. In the years that followed, his teammates included Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, Tom Sanders, John Havlicek, and many other terrific players.

I realize that the vast majority of people who will read this didn't see any of it. But I hope you're aware of how awesome Bill Russell was as a basketball player and as an outspoken foe of racism. He never hid his disdain for the racism that he and his Black teammates faced in Boston in those years.



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would be grateful if Richyyy or anyone else can post the contract status of the 12 players currently on the New York Liberty roster plus anyone else (Nyara Sabally, Sika Kone, Raquela Carrera, Kylie Shook, Marine Fauthoux, Ivana Dojkic) for whom the Liberty may retain rights. I realize this has been posted in the past, but I don't know how to find it.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I would be grateful if Richyyy or anyone else can post the contract status of the 12 players currently on the New York Liberty roster plus anyone else (Nyara Sabally, Sika Kone, Raquela Carrera, Kylie Shook, Marine Fauthoux, Ivana Dojkic) for whom the Liberty may retain rights. I realize this has been posted in the past, but I don't know how to find it.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.

https://herhoopstats.com/salary-cap-sheet/wnba/team/2022/new-york-liberty-11eaecc7-356f-5524-b611-2362f5011b0b/

The blue boxes tell you the likely statuses of the players in future years.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
https://herhoopstats.com/salary-cap-sheet/wnba/team/2022/new-york-liberty-11eaecc7-356f-5524-b611-2362f5011b0b/

The blue boxes tell you the likely statuses of the players in future years.


Thanks so much, Richyyy, for this very prompt and very helpful reply. And special thanks for this great work that you do.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
https://herhoopstats.com/salary-cap-sheet/wnba/team/2022/new-york-liberty-11eaecc7-356f-5524-b611-2362f5011b0b/

The blue boxes tell you the likely statuses of the players in future years.


Thanks so much, Richyyy, for this very prompt and very helpful reply. And special thanks for this great work that you do.


Yes I agree Richyyy is always there with the answer and a great help to us fans



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/07/22 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

a redo of my summary for 23 keeping it shorter

6 player on guaranteed money
Ionescu
face of franchise
Howard, Laney, Dolson
all three are hard to trade (not a slight, just a reality of the cap based on salary vs production and what other teams with limited cap options would be willing to trade) good news all are valuable to the Liberty if healthy
Allen
probably the most tradable based on salary to production equation but still not easy and also offesr the Liberty good value when healthy
Willoughby
similar to the players above but on a lower scale hard to trade most teams will be able to find similar levels of production with their draft picks, camp invites and the waiver wire. No point in cutting her unless we can pay her and stay at a 12 player roster. Good news further from injury there is still a lot of upside.

Johannes and Han Xu
Both are reserved so if playing in the W they will be with the Liberty but every year is a roll of the dice hopefully they enjoyed this season and next years National team commitments are light. It would be great to have them back One of the Liberty's best paths to improvement in 23 (minus a major free agent signing) is more Han Xu and Johannes.

next teir
1st round pick in 23 (50/50 shot IMO to be a lottery pick or pick #5) Sabally and Kone
it is possible all three are on the roster next year, maybe we trade the pick in a package or for a future asset but I doubt it. Sabally seems likely barring health concerns. Kone said she wanted to play in the W seems possible but Kone is still young and could wait a season or two long to develop.
(If all of the above is correct we are at 11)

free agents
I think NY will have enough cap room to possibly re-sign current NY free agent Whitcomb but will probably try to bring in a bigger/higher potential free agent instead (Stewart, N Ogwumike, A. Stevens. B. Jones could also be a wing or PG instead) it is also possible NY doesn't go after or obtain any free agents at all.
(One free agent signing and all of the above happening puts us at 12)

players on the outside looking in or
waiting for no free agency movement, a trade or one or more of Han Xu, Johannes, Sabally or Kone to not be on the roster in 23

Dangerfield, Richards, Onyenwere

return of Cubaj or Shook

camp invites or waiver wire


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/08/22 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sabrina Ionescu becomes first player in WNBA history with 500 points, 200 rebounds and 200 assists in a season


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/08/22 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
a redo of my summary for 23 keeping it shorter

6 player on guaranteed money
Ionescu
face of franchise
Howard, Laney, Dolson
all three are hard to trade (not a slight, just a reality of the cap based on salary vs production and what other teams with limited cap options would be willing to trade) good news all are valuable to the Liberty if healthy
Allen
probably the most tradable based on salary to production equation but still not easy and also offesr the Liberty good value when healthy
Willoughby
similar to the players above but on a lower scale hard to trade most teams will be able to find similar levels of production with their draft picks, camp invites and the waiver wire. No point in cutting her unless we can pay her and stay at a 12 player roster. Good news further from injury there is still a lot of upside.

Johannes and Han Xu
Both are reserved so if playing in the W they will be with the Liberty but every year is a roll of the dice hopefully they enjoyed this season and next years National team commitments are light. It would be great to have them back One of the Liberty's best paths to improvement in 23 (minus a major free agent signing) is more Han Xu and Johannes.

next teir
1st round pick in 23 (50/50 shot IMO to be a lottery pick or pick #5) Sabally and Kone
it is possible all three are on the roster next year, maybe we trade the pick in a package or for a future asset but I doubt it. Sabally seems likely barring health concerns. Kone said she wanted to play in the W seems possible but Kone is still young and could wait a season or two long to develop.
(If all of the above is correct we are at 11)

free agents
I think NY will have enough cap room to possibly re-sign current NY free agent Whitcomb but will probably try to bring in a bigger/higher potential free agent instead (Stewart, N Ogwumike, A. Stevens. B. Jones could also be a wing or PG instead) it is also possible NY doesn't go after or obtain any free agents at all.
(One free agent signing and all of the above happening puts us at 12)

players on the outside looking in or
waiting for no free agency movement, a trade or one or more of Han Xu, Johannes, Sabally or Kone to not be on the roster in 23

Dangerfield, Richards, Onyenwere

return of Cubaj or Shook

camp invites or waiver wire


A few things. I see no pathway for Sami’s return due to a roster crunch, cap space, a draft position likely to bring a more versatile wing player and the need for any one of the players you mentioned as a free agent.

I believe signing a player to a max salary or close to it would enable the Libs to only fit 11. If you sign the correct free agent, I think there’s no need to trade Howard or Laney. Right now as your #2 and #3 players, they’re miscast if your goal is to compete as one of the upper-tier teams. As your #3 and #4 they’re perfect. Particularly if your fifth-best player is a top-3 draft choice. Whatever that brings, it’s going to be a major upgrade over what they’ve been putting out there this year. And Sabally gives you needed versatility at her position as well. If we had her I think it’s possible we’d have 3 or 4 more wins.

I don’t foresee an avenue to trade Dolson. She’s actually been pretty solid after a slow start but she’s still not a starting-caliber player. I’d like to keep Bec as a backup for defensive purposes, but depending who we acquire via draft and free agency, you might be able to get away with trading her just to add some cap space also. But I think I’d like to keep Bec. She’s miscast as a starter but I think she’s valuable as a depth piece.



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Consider this. In 2020, Jonathan Kolb and Walt Hopkins brought in--and spoke excitedly about--six non-Sabrina rookies. Now would be the end of WNBA season three for these rookies... but only two are currently on WNBA rosters!

One is Jocelyn Willoughby, who due to injuries and some recent DNPs has thus far been in only 32 WNBA games over three seasons. The other is Joyner Holmes, now on Connecticut, who this season is averaging 7.5 minutes per game. Megan Walker, Jazmine Jones, and Leaonna Odom are not currently in the WNBA. Kylie Shook is suspended.

Walker was drafted at #9 by New York. Jocelyn Willoughby was drafted at #10 by Phoenix and came to the Liberty in a trade. So, depending on how people define a "high" draft pick, it could be said that none of the six non-Sabrina rookies came to New York as a high draft pick. But, so far, after three seasons, it's a zero-for-six on these 2020 rookies. I hope Willoughby will stay healthy next season and will validate all the glowing words about her that we've heard over the years from Liberty sources. We'll see.



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm still not convinced that Willoughby is better than Onyenwere or why you would keep JW over MO. They're very similar players. MO has played 63 games in two years. JW has played 32 games in three years. Yeah, injury can happen to anybody, but still it is a factor. What is it that makes NY fans think they would rather keep JW over MO? I guess MO would have some trade value while JW pretty much has none at this point, so if hypothetically you want to include one of them in a trade, perhaps it would make sense. MO is also a bit cheaper next year - not a lot but those few thousand $ could end up making a difference on the cap.

Also the team has been better with Dangermouse. If you're dumping both her and Sami, there goes two of your ball handlers, which are already in short supply.


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PostPosted: 08/09/22 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="myrtle"] What is it that makes NY fans think they would rather keep JW over MO? {/quote]

Where is this sentence coming from? I haven't seen anyone here say it. Has it been said by even two New York fans (plural)? I'd love to see who they are.

What I and others have done is to report the high praise for Willoughby over three years from Liberty sources. Sometimes named, sometimes not. "Sources" not meaning fans.



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was mostly referring to J-Spoon's post above. But yeah, there are others seemingly wishing and hoping for Willoughby to live up to the hype with which she arrived.


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PostPosted: 08/09/22 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I was mostly referring to J-Spoon's post above. But yeah, there are others seemingly wishing and hoping for Willoughby to live up to the hype with which she arrived.


Of course Liberty fans are wishing and hoping that Willoughby will stay healthy in 2023 and do wonderfully. Is THAT what you're criticizing? Really? NO ONE has said that we'd rather see Willoughby on our 2023 team than Onyenwere.



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I was mostly referring to J-Spoon's post above. But yeah, there are others seemingly wishing and hoping for Willoughby to live up to the hype with which she arrived.


Of course Liberty fans are wishing and hoping that Willoughby will stay healthy in 2023 and do wonderfully. Is THAT what you're criticizing? Really? NO ONE has said that we'd rather see Willoughby on our 2023 team than Onyenwere.


look carefully at JSpoon's post.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I was mostly referring to J-Spoon's post above. But yeah, there are others seemingly wishing and hoping for Willoughby to live up to the hype with which she arrived.


Of course Liberty fans are wishing and hoping that Willoughby will stay healthy in 2023 and do wonderfully. Is THAT what you're criticizing? Really? NO ONE has said that we'd rather see Willoughby on our 2023 team than Onyenwere.


look carefully at JSpoon's post.


I reread her post before my most recent comment and I don't agree with your reading. But even if you're right... who are the mysterious "others" you keep referring to?



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PostPosted: 08/09/22 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not like Shades. I'm not going to go back the 50 pages of the thread to pick them out. We can agree to disagree.

But just in JSpoon's post, he has Willoughby on the team and Onyenwere basically on the outside hoping.


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PostPosted: 08/09/22 11:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I'm still not convinced that Willoughby is better than Onyenwere or why you would keep JW over MO. They're very similar players. MO has played 63 games in two years. JW has played 32 games in three years. Yeah, injury can happen to anybody, but still it is a factor. What is it that makes NY fans think they would rather keep JW over MO? I guess MO would have some trade value while JW pretty much has none at this point, so if hypothetically you want to include one of them in a trade, perhaps it would make sense. MO is also a bit cheaper next year - not a lot but those few thousand $ could end up making a difference on the cap.

Also the team has been better with Dangermouse. If you're dumping both her and Sami, there goes two of your ball handlers, which are already in short supply.


I do not prefer Willoughby to Onyenwere but

Willoughby's contract next year has been guaranteed by the Liberty signing her to her fourth year so the Liberty can't just cut her, they can only cut her but still pay her the $80k contract she has (its a new thing that happens with 4th year player I believe) and that 80k counts against the cap. I would keep Onyenwere over Willoughby but I don't think the Liberty would pay her. If someone gives a second round pick in 23 or 24 for Willoughby great but I don't see that happening.

I would also keep Dangerfield over others above her but I think the team would probably have to wait and see what happens with Johannes, Han Xu, Sabally and Kone before I would feel comfortable putting Dangerfield as a safe roster spot. I could see the Liberty try to improve the PG spot through the draft or free agency but if neither of that happen Dangerfield is probably the first in of Dangerfields, Richards and Onyenwere IMO.

Something like this seem pretty realistic to me

Johannes/Dangerfield
Ionescu/Willoughby
Laney/Allen
Howard/Sabally
Dolson/Han

1st round pick/free agent (One guard/wing one post)
Onyewere/Richards/Kone

I would rather keep Richards or Onyenwere over Willoughby but guaranteed money is guaranteed money, and we are probably too close to the cap to both pay Willoughby and stay at a 12 player roster, so cutting her doesn't open up a spot for someone else anyway, depending on if and how much we spend on a free agent we might have to drop to 11 even with Willoughby.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 08/09/22 11:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: 08/09/22 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I was mostly referring to J-Spoon's post above. But yeah, there are others seemingly wishing and hoping for Willoughby to live up to the hype with which she arrived.


I’m one of them, mostly because once, just once, I would like to buy a player’s jersey and not have that player promptly get traded, get hurt, or get traded and then get hurt. Neither Jocelyn nor Michaela have set the world on fire, except for those moments when Michaela fumbles a play and I want to set something on fire, but as J-Spoon pointed out, Jocelyn is on guaranteed money and Michaela is not, and if presented with the option of paying one or paying both, I rather assume the franchise would rather pay one.



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PostPosted: 08/10/22 12:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Something like this seem pretty realistic to me

Johannes/Dangerfield
Ionescu/Willoughby
Laney/Allen
Howard/Sabally
Dolson/Han

1st round pick/free agent (One guard/wing one post)
Onyewere/Richards/Kone



For the reasons you've stated, this seems quite realistic to me as well. Of course there are various ifs, among them Johannes returning, Han returning, and Sabally being healthy. I hope they're all on New York's 2023 roster.



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PostPosted: 08/10/22 12:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe LA would trade you Carter for Willoughby. They appear to be thru with her but like Willoughby she's stuck on their books. Then maybe you get creative and trade Carter on to someplace where they think they can deal with her personal issues in order to get her playing ability. Or maybe keep her and hope she won't disrupt your team chemistry too badly. LA could use a SF in addition to KLS. J.Walker hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I liked Burrell in college but coming back from injury (twice) is starting to look iffy. They will have major holes in their roster regardless.


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PostPosted: 08/10/22 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I mentioned this recently and now I'll say it again. Unless New York has a terrific run this week, I believe Jonathan Kolb will be gone. I don't think he's done an awful job. We'll never know what Kolb's three seasons might have been like if Ionescu, Laney, and Howard were all healthy at the same time for the vast majority of all three seasons or even for one of those seasons!

But I think if you become a WNBA team's GM, you fire the coach, you bring in a new coach, you make various roster moves, you have a disastrous season, you make more roster moves for year #2, you have a better season but still a losing record, you fire the coach you yourself chose and bring in another new coach for year #3, you make some more roster moves, but your team has its 3rd consecutive losing season... then it's time for a change.

I will be very interested to see what Clara Wu Tsai and Joe Tsai decide. Those are the only two votes that count.



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