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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18032 Location: Queens
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Posted: 07/30/22 7:33 pm ::: |
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We’re perfectly positioned to step on a rake and have it bounce us into the 8 seed with a comical SPOIIIIIIING noise.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8183
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Posted: 07/31/22 10:15 am ::: |
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NY should try to acquire SDS this offseason.........If NY gets the #1 pk....Laney, Dolson & 2024 first rd pk for SDS.........If the NY does not get the #1 pk....Laney, Onyenwere & 2023 for SDS........Phoenix will try to lock SDS up by offering her an extension...but if SDS declines the offer I think Phoenix will trade her.
I would then try to sign Stewart or Nneka or try to facilitate a sign/trade (Howard for Stewart or Nneka)
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15747 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 07/31/22 2:59 pm ::: |
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That would be paying way too much for SDS.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8183
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Posted: 07/31/22 4:09 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
That would be paying way too much for SDS. |
I respectfully disagree...Anytime you have an opportunity to get a top 10 player and put your team in a position to contend for a championship, you do it.
G- SDS
G- Ionescu
C- Boston
F- Stewart/Nneka/Howard
F- Allen
6- Johannes
7- Xu
8- Didi
9- Onyenwere
Or
G- SDS
G- Ionescu
C- Dolson
F- Stewart/Nneka/Howard
F- Allen
6- Johannes
7- Xu
8- Didi
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5381 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 07/31/22 4:17 pm ::: |
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New York will have to believe that their current posts players plus Sabally are good enough to compete against the best posts players in the W to give up an opportunity to draft Boston.🤔
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/31/22 5:43 pm ::: |
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If the Liberty get Stewie, I’d rather have Laney than Diggins. The Liberty guards have been largely getting pushed around in the absence of Willoughby and Laney. And even more so when Bec was out too. Not saying Laney is “better” than Diggins by any stretch but just matchup-wise I think the Liberty really miss Laney from a standpoint of team fit. Never mind giving up all that other stuff. Plus no matter where NY picks in the draft, I think they’re going to get immediate help. In my opinion, Jones or Owusu would step in and help NY immediately. Diamond Miller could be an option too. She probably wouldn’t start right away but would be a nice bench option. That would be a deep wing rotation with some strong defensive options. I don’t know if Willoughby will ever provide great offense but I think she has elite defensive potential. Since Bec has returned, her defense also has been pretty elite too. I know Taurasi isn’t what she was but today Bec totally shut her down. Taurasi had only 4 FGM. One was on a broken play where she got away from Willoughby. Another was with Johannes in her face. One was over Bec and I don’t remember the fourth one. But it’s at most 2 field goals. And that’s been pretty routine for Bec since her return from the concussion. It’s too bad her offense is all over the place. Her defense is at this point I think underrated.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/01/22 12:54 am ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
If the Liberty get Stewie, I’d rather have Laney than Diggins. The Liberty guards have been largely getting pushed around in the absence of Willoughby and Laney. And even more so when Bec was out too. Not saying Laney is “better” than Diggins by any stretch but just matchup-wise I think the Liberty really miss Laney from a standpoint of team fit. |
Worth noting: Diggins-Smith is more than three years older than Laney. Diggins-Smith will be about 32 3/4 when the 2023 regular season begins. I wouldn't trade for Laney for Diggins-Smith and certainly not Laney AND Dolson AND a 2024 first-round pick for Diggins-Smith.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/01/22 1:13 am ::: |
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I'm really puzzled that Jocelyn Willoughby is getting SO little time on the court. We've heard for so long all the glowing talk about her from various Liberty sources. And Kolb has held onto her when he didn't have to do so. So now she's (apparently) finally healthy and yet she sits.
I just checked stats for New York's eight most recent games. Willoughby had five DNP games and over the eight games was on the court for a total of 20 minutes. The Liberty lost six of those games, so on the whole the players who might have lost time to Willoughby (Allen, Dangerfield, Johannes, Whitcomb, Onyenwere, and Richards) haven't been wonderful game after game.
I love that Jocelyn Willoughby is in graduate school and runs a "Read What You Sow" book club with the Cafe Con Libros feminist bookstore in Brooklyn. How good is she as a professional basketball player? I don't know. I'm not convinced that anyone does. But since the Liberty organization has spoken so highly of her for so long and has wanted to keep her on the team, shouldn't she get a genuine chance to show if she does or doesn't belong?
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8183
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Posted: 08/01/22 5:33 am ::: |
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SDS is one of the best-conditioned athletes in professional sports...She's never played overseas basketball so she doesn't have much wear/tear on her body.....SDS is going to have a longer shelf life than most WNBA players who choose to play year-round........Ionescu is most effective when she's playing alongside a defensive playmaking pg. SDS would fit the bill perfectly......It would be easier to find a replacement for Laney than get a PG near the level of an SDS.
Laney, Dolson, and 2024 first rd pk is not a lot to give up for a top 10 player (Top 3 pg)........Dolson is a good bench player/lower-level starter....Xu will probably replace SD as the starting center within the next 2 seasons.......If the Liberty make the playoffs in 2023, the 2024 first rd pk isn't going to be worth much anyway.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/01/22 8:22 am ::: |
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I’m not disputing her conditioning or ability and I thought you were including a 2023 draft pick if it wasn’t the top pick. But my point is that her conditioning doesn’t change the fact that she’s not that big a guard. Laney is the only quality all-around SF on the team. That could change though, depending on if the Liberty get Stewie (theoretically Howard can defend SF’s and Stewie could play the SF role on offense) and where they draft in 2023 (Jones). It might be worth it as long as the starting SF role is replaced by someone other than Bec or Willoughby. I love them off the bench to lock down people and give some energy. But your starter at that spot has to give you more consistent offense.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8183
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Posted: 08/01/22 10:01 am ::: |
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@NYL_WNBA_FAN.
Yes, I was including the 2023 pick if it wasn't the top pick (not 2024), but Dolson would not be a part of the package...SDS isn't a big guard but she's one of the bigger point guards in the league. Skylar's long wingspan is a huge asset when guarding bigger wings...SDS shut down J.Loyd in the playoffs last year and had some success against Copper in the finals........I understand Liberty fans not wanting to trade Laney....but I think it's very important to have a better-than-average PG (especially on defense) playing alongside Ionescu. Dangerfield is a liability on defense and inconsistent on offense.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9635
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Posted: 08/01/22 8:38 pm ::: |
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Han Xu has the highest PER on the Liberty at 21.7. Dolan is 14 (league average is 15). Most of Xu's advanced stats are better than Dolson's, notably win shares per 40 minutes. Xu can't bang underneath or set widebody screens, but she is more mobile than Dolson and actually has a better 3 point percentage.Unless she has stamina issues, I think Xu is ready for more minutes than Dolson right now.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21931
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Posted: 08/01/22 9:07 pm ::: |
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Accidental Hideous Lord Jimmy reference - eeeek!
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6801
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Posted: 08/02/22 12:09 am ::: |
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While I believe on paper Diggins-Smith makes a lot of sense as a back-court pairing with Ionescu I don't think I would pursue it. At least not in 23, maybe come 24 if we could sign her up as an UFA I would reconsider. In short sometimes when things make sense on paper they might not make sense on the court.
If I was looking for a perfect PG running mate for Ionescu I would go after Cloud or C. Gray. Since I doubt either of them would be available to NY to sign or even trade for I would probably look to the draft. Dangerfield isn't perfect but I would try to hold onto her ideally as a back up to a bigger three and D starting PG. (No sure who that is though). If we can upgrade the post with Sabally and a free agent I would be fine rolling with Johannes and Dangerfield for another season in 23 or bringing in some via the draft, or maybe seeing if we can find the next out of the league for a couple years or never got in in the first place who has improved immensely over-seas and brings some maturity and experience to the table and know how to play off of a star. (Maybe try to convince Sabrina's old duck running mate Cazorla sp. to come aboard).
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/02/22 2:58 pm ::: |
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I think unequivocally priority number one for NY is cutting down the free throw disparity. I think Dangerfield is solid as a part-time PG as long as you are mindful of matchups. But she gets called for a lot of fouls simply because she’s small, which is really irritating. Whatever the case, it’s two straight years of a horrendous free throw disparity. Both teams favor the 3 but are otherwise built differently with the same outcome.
On Diggins, she’s not in a position of having to guard bigger players very often. Because Phoenix has a bunch of 6 foot wing types. Plus, I’m not down with players who tweet that coaches are clowns either. But no matter whether you want her or not, Diggins will help the free throw disparity on offense but would mean a need for some team reconstruction to improve on the defensive side, where NY already ranks last in FTA yielded per game. Opponents also lead the league in FT percentage vs. NY, which means that penetrating perimeter types are probably getting to the line with more regularity than other teams allow.
That part is why I want Haley Jones or Aliyah Boston very badly. Jones is just scratching the surface of what she can do in a pro-style offense and defense and I am on record as saying I think Boston is a future franchise player. Either of the two would give the Liberty a domino effect on defense for the positive. Jones would add PG-like skills and remove a lot of pressure from Sabrina to do all that creating. Unlike Johannes, Jones can get to the basket, willingly absorb contact and draw fouls too. Yeah, her shot is flat but she’s still a good foul shooter. That shot can be developed. Her raw talent is one of those things that’s rare.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 08/02/22 8:12 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I think unequivocally priority number one for NY is cutting down the free throw disparity. I think Dangerfield is solid as a part-time PG as long as you are mindful of matchups. But she gets called for a lot of fouls simply because she’s small, which is really irritating. Whatever the case, it’s two straight years of a horrendous free throw disparity. Both teams favor the 3 but are otherwise built differently with the same outcome.
On Diggins, she’s not in a position of having to guard bigger players very often. Because Phoenix has a bunch of 6 foot wing types. Plus, I’m not down with players who tweet that coaches are clowns either. But no matter whether you want her or not, Diggins will help the free throw disparity on offense but would mean a need for some team reconstruction to improve on the defensive side, where NY already ranks last in FTA yielded per game. Opponents also lead the league in FT percentage vs. NY, which means that penetrating perimeter types are probably getting to the line with more regularity than other teams allow.
That part is why I want Haley Jones or Aliyah Boston very badly. Jones is just scratching the surface of what she can do in a pro-style offense and defense and I am on record as saying I think Boston is a future franchise player. Either of the two would give the Liberty a domino effect on defense for the positive. Jones would add PG-like skills and remove a lot of pressure from Sabrina to do all that creating. Unlike Johannes, Jones can get to the basket, willingly absorb contact and draw fouls too. Yeah, her shot is flat but she’s still a good foul shooter. That shot can be developed. Her raw talent is one of those things that’s rare. |
Being a Stanford fan, it's hard to diss Ms Jones, but I would not count on her as a PG type. Her handle is really pretty cringe worthy. She does lots of things really well but dribbling is not her forte. (she averaged almost 3 TOs per game last year in college)
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/02/22 10:58 pm ::: |
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I couldn't watch tonight's game on TV as it was happening, but recorded it and saw the final score. Now I'm watching it late Tuesday night. SO impressive to see the halftime segment where Jocelyn Willoughby talks about running the "Read What You Sow" book club at the Cafe con Libros intersectional feminist bookshop in Brooklyn. As someone who's taught many college literature classes, I found her remarks inspiring. I don't know what's ahead for Ms. Willoughby in her basketball career, but she is surely doing great things off the court and will do many more in the decades ahead.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
Last edited by Bob Lamm on 08/03/22 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/02/22 11:57 pm ::: |
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Near the end of tonight's (Tuesday's) telecast, the Liberty broadcasters said that Betnijah Laney had been part of the earlier shootaround. And that she would be going with the team on the road trip ahead (Phoenix, Dallas, and Atlanta). Essentially they said that Laney might or might not play. That a crucial issue is how she feels AFTER the shootarounds.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21931
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Posted: 08/03/22 12:28 am ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
Near the end of tonight's (Tuesday's) telecast, the Liberty broadcasters said that Betnijah Laney had been part of the earlier shootaround. And that she would be going with the team on the road trip ahead (Phoenix, Dallas, and Atlanta). Essentially they said that Laney might or might not play. That a crucial issue is how she feels AFTER the shootarounds. |
Not that I've been paying super close attention, so I may have missed some previously, but it's great to hear that she's finally getting close to a return.
With the playoff battle heating up I hope they are able to stay patient with her.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/03/22 2:28 am ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
Not that I've been paying super close attention, so I may have missed some previously, but it's great to hear that she's finally getting close to a return. With the playoff battle heating up I hope they are able to stay patient with her. |
I recall hearing a while back that Laney would hopefully be back in August. But this is the first concrete piece of information I've heard, certainly the first I've heard of her being on the court even for a shootaround.
And patience gets tricky under these circumstances. It's not just an issue of Brondello and others being patient with Laney but Laney being patient herself. Any accomplished professional athlete will want to be on the court as much as possible with the season on the line. Even under lesser circumstances, lots of athletes insist "I feel absolutely fine!" when it isn't true.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/03/22 6:55 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I think unequivocally priority number one for NY is cutting down the free throw disparity. I think Dangerfield is solid as a part-time PG as long as you are mindful of matchups. But she gets called for a lot of fouls simply because she’s small, which is really irritating. Whatever the case, it’s two straight years of a horrendous free throw disparity. Both teams favor the 3 but are otherwise built differently with the same outcome.
On Diggins, she’s not in a position of having to guard bigger players very often. Because Phoenix has a bunch of 6 foot wing types. Plus, I’m not down with players who tweet that coaches are clowns either. But no matter whether you want her or not, Diggins will help the free throw disparity on offense but would mean a need for some team reconstruction to improve on the defensive side, where NY already ranks last in FTA yielded per game. Opponents also lead the league in FT percentage vs. NY, which means that penetrating perimeter types are probably getting to the line with more regularity than other teams allow.
That part is why I want Haley Jones or Aliyah Boston very badly. Jones is just scratching the surface of what she can do in a pro-style offense and defense and I am on record as saying I think Boston is a future franchise player. Either of the two would give the Liberty a domino effect on defense for the positive. Jones would add PG-like skills and remove a lot of pressure from Sabrina to do all that creating. Unlike Johannes, Jones can get to the basket, willingly absorb contact and draw fouls too. Yeah, her shot is flat but she’s still a good foul shooter. That shot can be developed. Her raw talent is one of those things that’s rare. |
Being a Stanford fan, it's hard to diss Ms Jones, but I would not count on her as a PG type. Her handle is really pretty cringe worthy. She does lots of things really well but dribbling is not her forte. (she averaged almost 3 TOs per game last year in college) |
I view her as more a point-forward, open court player than someone who can do a ton of ball-handling. I agree that the left hand needs work. But she’s also an outstanding passer, which doesn’t always show up statistically in the way Stanford runs offense. In a sense I misspoke about what I’d want the role of someone like her to be. I’m so frustrated by the free throw disparity that the Liberty are up against that I think they need to add players who can either create for themselves in transition or for others. That’s where I envision her more immediate impact.
Then in the meantime she ideally develops the other stuff (her character comes across as outstanding) and is the best version of herself in like three seasons.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/03/22 9:19 am ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Not that I've been paying super close attention, so I may have missed some previously, but it's great to hear that she's finally getting close to a return. With the playoff battle heating up I hope they are able to stay patient with her. |
I recall hearing a while back that Laney would hopefully be back in August. But this is the first concrete piece of information I've heard, certainly the first I've heard of her being on the court even for a shootaround.
And patience gets tricky under these circumstances. It's not just an issue of Brondello and others being patient with Laney but Laney being patient herself. Any accomplished professional athlete will want to be on the court as much as possible with the season on the line. Even under lesser circumstances, lots of athletes insist "I feel absolutely fine!" when it isn't true. |
Laney comes across as very dedicated and willing to push through pain, as evidenced by playing through the torn meniscus last year. At this point I think we’d agree that her taking it slow is best. It’s not likely that she will be able to step in and have a major impact on their regular season outcome being that the games are so congested right now. But the Liberty are now tied for 8th. With a bunch of games against teams they are close to in the standings. I think their best bet is to proceed cautiously with Laney and hope that if they sneak into the playoffs she’s closer to 100% by then.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9635
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Posted: 08/03/22 11:38 am ::: |
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Han Xu Is Unlike Any Player The WNBA Has Seen
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“Since I was young, shooting is always what I’m good at,” Han said through her translator, Cindy Chen, as we chatted courtside prior to a Liberty game earlier this month. “And I want to show it on this stage as well. And when shooting, I feel like when I don’t think too much, I don’t overthink, nobody can guard me.” |
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