RebKell's Junkie Boards

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

I do appreciate that Kolb is taking his time with regards to Tina. I definitely prefer getting the best deal possible and not settling for less.

One thing I will say with regards to trades and value...my Kings traded a few years back, our franchise player DeMarcus Cousins along with Omri Casspi, for Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, a 1st round pick (ended up being 10) and a 2nd round pick (ended up being 34).

Cousins was a 7th year player who averaged 69 out of 82 games per season, soon got hit with injury after injury and is not playing this season.

Buddy was an ‘old’ rookie drafted 6th in the lottery, barley playing 20minutes, a shooting guard shooting shooting 39%FG and 36% from downtown. Our team owner likened Buddy to Steph Curry. Fast forward and Buddy is the 3pt contest champ, one of the hardest working players and the last two seasons averaging just over 20ppg. He is also the first player in league history to make 800 3s in less than 300 games (beating Curry and Damian Lillard- who are both way better players than Buddy, but he’s a scorer and shooter nonetheless).

The media DESTROYED us when the trade went through, some saying it was the worst trade in league history. But now people, because of how Buddy blossomed, are not seeing it that way.

Maybe we got lucky, maybe we saw something in Buddy the Pelicans didn’t.

But my point is, perhaps with a keen eye and analytic approach that Kolb utilizes, a trade that doesn’t seem to be good value for Tina could turn out better than expected.

Lastly, I hope we keep Tina

[six sense]

Why do you guys think we have made so few moves so far?? You think maybe just maybe we finally have a front office that know what they are doing!! So because of where this team is in its devolepment phase the best thing we can do is stand Pat. Had to ask I am a huge fan of the league and of the liberty and needed to get this conversation started again lol didn't like seeing no comment on this thread the last few days lol LET'S GO LIBERTY!!

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six sense

[J-Spoon]

Welcome aboard!

I agree when the Liberty page falls too far from the top it makes me nervous.

It is possible that the new front office is all about rebuild and development and everything is going according to plan

OTOH there was some discussion of trading Charles and at the moment that doesn't seem to have manifested, though if you are trading Charles for picks or young players that would fit with the development/rebuild narrative.

The only thing that doesn't make me completely confident that it is a "plan" is that last year and the year before that when the front office was in train wreck mode we also made very few moves.

This off season with the new CBA there has been so much movement that it is a little surprising the NY's big move to date was bringing in a veteran PG/mentor type, some young players that may have fit the new look Liberty timeline have been on the move so the fact that we didn't get anyone besides Clarendon is a little surprising. Are post rotation outside of Charles (Zahui B, Stokes, Gray, Raincock-Ekunwe) while all being players I like don't scream up and coming future of the team to me so at least a move or two there might have been in order.

The other teams that have made the fewest moves seem to be Indy and Minn for what it is worth and Seattle who added tuck but gets a superstar back from injury and Washington who low balled Toliver and took advantage of PX's cap situation to scramble and replace her with L. Mitchell when Toliver left for LA.

So while I support the rebuild stand pat idea, I am not sure how intentional it was, it is possible that we did try and make moves and the player simply chose somewhere else instead or we tried to make some trades but they fell through and we still don't know if Charles is staying with us or not, so there may be a move yet to come

we'll see

[six sense]

Great reply 👍 have my fingers crossed that they have a plan in place, have to study the list of free agents next year, maybe developing the young players this year and putting system in place is the focus of this upcoming season. Then adding a few young players would fit time line better. As for Tina, hopefully we find her a mutual landing spot that's good for her and a decent return for us, because coming back this season would slow down the young players and cancel out any compensation coming back this way. So this is the first big test for this front office! Stay tuned

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six sense

[Bob Lamm]

I'd like to remind everyone that the Liberty is not "standing pat" for 2021. It's not just that Clarendon was signed. We're about get the best college player in the nation: Sabrina Ionescu. A player with the potential to dramatically change the team. Any definition of "moves" that is limited to free agent signings and trades is highly misleading.

Suppose two weeks ago Kolb had traded our #1 pick in the draft for Diggins-Smith. Under the definition being used, that would have constituted a "move." Is there any Liberty fan who would have viewed that as a good "move"?

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[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Based on the words of Kolb and Hopkins, I think they understand that the organization is at this point a sleeping giant. Nurse made the all-star team last year as a second-year player. You're adding a generational player in Ionescu, at a position of extreme need. Durr has a world of talent and probably will come into the season better physically than she was with the hip labrum. Even better, Durr proved she could be reasonably efficient even with limited touches.

Rumors, which appear accurate, suggest they explored moving Tina. My thought is that Phoenix didn't have enough assets to trade for both Diggins and Tina and chose to acquire a needed PG. From the Liberty perspective, if indeed moving Tina has been explored, what's out there in return has not been enough to warrant a move. Even on the downside of her prime, a future women's basketball hall of famer is a pretty good complement to what is probably the league's best future big 3 under the age of 25.

The need area is 5-spot depth. An area to this point that in my estimation wasn't adequately covered in free agency anyway. Dolson would have been intriguing from an offensive standpoint but would have been a poor complement to Tina defensively.

Let's also not underestimate the Clarendon move. She's a winner and she's only 28. It's not unlike adding Wright in 2015, except that Clarendon is younger. CT was 8-1 when Clarendon was healthy last year, then struggled to find their way for awhile before eventually righting the ship come playoff time.

I think a best-case scenario for the Libs this year is in the neighborhood of 22 or 23 wins. In that scenario, the Liberty finish top 3 in the league in offense and middle of the pack in defense. In more muted scenarios, the Libs finish somewhere in the 15 to 17 win range.

Hoping that most scenarios involve a more efficient Tina Charles, and a contract that keeps her with the Libs in a situation where she accepts a decreased role.

I think the lack of moves in relative terms means that the organization understands that the 5 spot is the area in need of improvement. And that upgrades in that area relative to the salary cap just weren't desirable. All in all I thought the Libs might sign Dolson being she's from here and she is a 5 spot player. But I think all in all where they are is the best way. They've added some vet leadership while maintaining that their young talent will play primary roles.

It should be fun to be a Liberty fan in 2020.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Bob Lamm]

I've previously stated and will restate my belief that 2020 should be viewed as a developmental year for the Liberty. That the priority should be to develop Ionescu, Durr, Nurse, Johannes, and Hu if she's on the team. For that reason, I was against getting Angel, Bonner, or Diggins-Smith, any of whom I felt would distract from the correct primary goal. If indeed it is a good developmental year for the Liberty, then next winter could be the right time for free-agent signings and/or trades with the hope of being a genuine championship contender in 2021.

I don't care if our offseason is exciting or dull. Looks to me like Kolb and Hopkins are on the right path for this franchise: a long-term plan to build a solid core, not any "quick fix" that may or may not work.

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[bluedevilaztecfan5]

I think part of it is that we have 8 players under contract (will make it 9 to reflect our #1 pick), while other teams have filled up quickly. Couple that with Tina trade rumors it’s easy to forget Tina signed pretty late last offseason too.
So it feels like we are ‘doing nothing’.
I also would like assistant coaches hired fairly soon, if only to help scout for #13. I’m sure they are in the process though.

(Ionescu)/Clarendon/Boyd
Durr
Nurse/Allen

Zahui B/Stokes/Xu

Charles is cored, Johannes, Gray, Raincock-Ekunwe reserved.
Add in questions about Han, Johannes, Raincock-Ekunwe coming or not pre-Olympics adds to my unease at least.
Patience can pay off, so hopefully it’s that we are evaluating for fit very carefully as opposed to striking out. Still plenty of time until the draft I suppose!

[Bob Lamm]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Right now, just purely speculative, I feel like Johannes will be in a Libs uniform in 2020 just based on the way the interviews with Kolb and Hopkins have gone. Han is much more murky IMO.

As of now barring other moves, I think the below ten are pretty safe.

Ionescu/Clarendon
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Bec
Tina/Gray
Kiah/Zahui

Is Sweden out of the Olympics? I thought they had qualified last year but I guess not. Are they still up in the air?

Boyd could be an 11th. I feel like she could maybe bring back an asset at another position but we will see. #13 is a possibility but this isn't regarded as a deep draft so who knows.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Richyyy]

Sweden are out, lost in last stage of qualifying like Great Britain. Olympic people you have to worry about are Johannes, Nurse, Allen, Raincock-Ekunwe and Han (plus maybe one or two of the Americans, obviously).

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[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

[six sense]

Considering Dallas has four number one draft picks coming up, seems impossible that they would keep all four of them, just asking being that we are clearly rebuilding, does anyone have any creative suggestions as to how we might take one or two of them of there hands?? Come on GM's let's see what your thoughts are

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six sense

[Bob Lamm]

[PUmatty]

[six sense]

Good thinking so far, being that we are rebuilding there is a strong chance we will be back in the lotto again next year, would you consider giving up a top 4 pick for this year's 5 and 7 hmmmm something to think about! Would not think about it if I can get the 4 and say Billings for Tina

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six sense

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Taking away the obvious that trades are very difficult to pull off, NY and Dallas aren't really a trade match anyway. Both teams are rebuilding. Both teams have significant draft capital. Both teams are built mainly around young players. Further, a defensive-minded coach like Brian Agler is probably going to be in heavily on Lauren Cox. Even if Sabally is their choice, there's no reason to part with that pick. Sabally entrance in the draft also means that the draft has become at least 5 deep with WNBA-ready players. Whatever questions exist about Chennedy Carter, her skills are so high that she will be at minimum an instant-offense player off the bench. Ruthy Hebard is also a WNBA-ready player as well IMO, albeit raw. I don't see any rationale for Dallas to part with either 2 or 5 period. But particularly not with NY, who isn't likely or able to offer any significant young players that would sway Dallas to move draft picks.

I personally think Tina is going to be here in 2020 anyway. I don't objectively see fits that make too much sense unless it's some kind of complicated 3-way trade which I think we can all acknowledge is highly unlikely.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Bob Lamm]

[Randy]

Another reason that a trade of Tina would seem unlikely is it would really be a "player rental" if she doesn't agree to a SNT. She can't be cored after this season so the destination team would have no assurance of keeping her. Where it might make sense is a contending team learns that one its starters got injured overseas (or even during the WNBA season.) In that case, the team might be willing to give up something to keep its championship hopes alive.

[WNBA 09]

[Richyyy]

She's not going somewhere she doesn't want to go. She's not under contract. She'd have to agree to the trade and whatever contract she'd be signing with the new team, all as part of the deal.

That said, the contract she's willing to sign with New Team X could obviously affect what they're willing to give up for her.

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[J-Spoon]

Also if anything NY is the one most likely to only offer her one year and another team night offer her more.

I think the most likely scenario is stay in. NY one year at super max become UFA next season

Still keeping an eye on Atlanta as the other option

[Randy]

I'm hoping the Dream don't go for it, but I could see that happening. If they do, I hope the #4 pick, Brown and Billings aren't part of the deal. Maybe something like E-Will+Cazorla+17.

[toad455]

But if Kolb & Co. don't get something for Charles this season, she's free to walk away in 2021. Can't core her anymore starting in 2021. I'd love for Charles to be in Brooklyn this season, but if Kolb, Tsai & Hopkins are pushing her out, might as well get something for her.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

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