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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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 Posted: 03/04/22 11:33 am ::: |
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[quote="eibln"][quote="Queenie"][quote="LitePal"]Why the huge love for KBA? Cori Close from UCLA seems to be very much disliked yet her record is better and her post season record is much better. Many say Close has done little with more but she's still done more with that more than KBA.[/quote]
I think KBA is a better program-builder than Close. I will admit to bias here, though, what with having been a St. John's season ticket holder during her reign and sitting in the same section as her family. But I saw the way she developed St. John's not just in terms of getting players, but in proactively garnering support from the institution to build attendance and fan support. It's a very marked contrast to the current attitude. Folks in Ann Arbor will have to provide their on-site take regarding Michigan.[/quote]
I think you hit it right on the nail. Close has not done more than KBA really. One Elite Eight is really the only difference. They have similar records at their current schools too. There is also big difference between the two schools. Close walked into a school that was already successful and had at least something good established. KBA had to come into Michigan, a school with no womens basketball history at all and establish a winning culture and a fan base which they never had before. UCLA has struggled to find its way to the top as things get tougher in the pac-12. They should look better next year than they do this year at UCLA.
I think KBA has done much more. She has established a culture and a great fan base. And I will answer your question Queenie that KBA does do a lot of the advertising/marketing at Michigan, yes she has gotten help from a cooperative AD as well as other internal support from other women program builders like Carol Hutchins and Bev Plocki. Not to mention both John Beilein and Juwan Howard have been backing her up. She is also quite the coach and has developed some great talent through her years at Michigan, Hillmon being one of the many to come. Michigan has found it’a way finally. Michigan fans are very proud of her. Don’t be shocked if Michigan makes a deep run this year, the can beat anyone. Replacing Hillmon will be KBA’s next big task at U of M.
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This is why I said earlier that Close is completely disrespected. Anyone who thinks Close stepped into a winning situation doesn't know the history but LSU did as they took Nikki Caldwell Fargas off UCLA's hands. Although she said the right things publicly, she also recruited poorly, had poor administration skills and had very poor communication with the team. The very weak roster she left Close with is telling because Close not only rebuilt the entire program but came up with outstanding classes. As for their record. their w/l record is similar but she has 3 SS to KBA's 1 as well as the EE and that is substantial.
As far as building programs, I have no idea what it is/was like to build a program in either Michigan or St. Johns but it is VERY difficult to get LA audiences to women basketball. If we compare 2012 average attendance, Michigan started with 1773, UCLA 1110. We can go to 2019 and Michigan has 3627 and UCLA 2940. Michigan is the clear winner but if we look across town at USC, their 2012 attendance average was 1051 and in 2019 it was 1238.
I am in no way dissing KBA, but I really don't understand how she's become the anointed one whereas Close is continually overlooked.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 03/04/22 11:55 am ::: |
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| Illinois should be a good program. They have a LOT going for them: Big Ten, strong academics, nice facilities, nice campus, etc. This will be an important hire for that program. Does the administration care about WBB there?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 1:07 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Illinois should be a good program. They have a LOT going for them: Big Ten, strong academics, nice facilities, nice campus, etc. This will be an important hire for that program. Does the administration care about WBB there? |
No more than they do at Wisconsin, which used to be a decent program in the (very) dim past.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 1:31 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Illinois should be a good program. They have a LOT going for them: Big Ten, strong academics, nice facilities, nice campus, etc. This will be an important hire for that program. Does the administration care about WBB there? |
No more than they do at Wisconsin, which used to be a decent program in the (very) dim past. |
I thought Wisconsin did make an effort and investment back when they hired Tsipis. He was highly regarded and sought after based on his success at GWU and apprenticeship under McGraw, and they paid him a respectable $650,000/year. He had one good recruiting class, but it just didn't work out over time.
I don't know what they are paying Moseley, but she was a legit hire based on her years as a Geno assistant and success at Boston University (not an easy place to win).
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 1:56 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Illinois should be a good program. They have a LOT going for them: Big Ten, strong academics, nice facilities, nice campus, etc. This will be an important hire for that program. Does the administration care about WBB there? |
No more than they do at Wisconsin, which used to be a decent program in the (very) dim past. |
I thought Wisconsin did make an effort and investment back when they hired Tsipis. He was highly regarded and sought after based on his success at GWU and apprenticeship under McGraw, and they paid him a respectable $650,000/year. He had one good recruiting class, but it just didn't work out over time.
I don't know what they are paying Moseley, but she was a legit hire based on her years as a Geno assistant and success at Boston University (not an easy place to win). |
I thought so too, but what you don't understand, not being a Badger fan, is that the Wisconsin program was basically destroyed by one AD, Pat Richter, who didn't give a flying Wallenda about women's sports in general. When Jane Albright retired, the job was supposed to go to Art Brown, her assistant, who had been pretty much promised the job when he was hired. However, Richter listened to a bunch of extremely shrill feminists who insisted that nothing would do but a female coach, period, and refused to consider Brown. He hired the Coach from Drake, who had a winning program there, but she was absolutely not up to the job, and Wisconsin became the swamp it is today. Wisconsin players go elsewhere. Tsipis is a good coach, but he didn't have a recruiting base in the area. Neither does Moseley. I don't know what, if anything, they can do to get WBB on track there.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 3:08 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I thought so too, but what you don't understand, not being a Badger fan, is that the Wisconsin program was basically destroyed by one AD, Pat Richter, who didn't give a flying Wallenda about women's sports in general. When Jane Albright retired, the job was supposed to go to Art Brown, her assistant, who had been pretty much promised the job when he was hired. However, Richter listened to a bunch of extremely shrill feminists who insisted that nothing would do but a female coach, period, and refused to consider Brown. He hired the Coach from Drake, who had a winning program there, but she was absolutely not up to the job, and Wisconsin became the swamp it is today. Wisconsin players go elsewhere. Tsipis is a good coach, but he didn't have a recruiting base in the area. Neither does Moseley. I don't know what, if anything, they can do to get WBB on track there. |
That's sort of ancient history. Barry Alverez has been athletic director at Wisconsin for EIGHTEEN YEARS. Whatever happened prior to 2004, he's had plenty of time to change and fix it, and whatever the current situation is falls entirely in his lap. My point is, I think he's tried with his last two hires. He put up enough money, and he hired coaches that, on paper, were fully suited to the job. The reality is that most hires don't work out, and Tsipis didn't. Maybe their current coach will.
BTW, Tsipis spent nine years as an assistant and associate coach for Muffet. ND doesn't limit or even concentrate their recruiting in the midwest, but they certainly do enough for him to have built a familiarity and relationships. I'm not sure why he didn't do any better. But I'm not convinced you can characterize his hire as manifesting a lack of effort by the school.
I'll be surprised if Illinois makes as much effort or investment as Wisconsin has with their last two attempts.
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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| Posted: 03/04/22 4:00 pm ::: |
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| Nancy Fahey retires, so Illinois is open as expected. Some interesting openings this year.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/04/22 4:22 pm ::: |
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| Syracuse has announced a national search for their next WBB coach
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I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 4:35 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
I thought so too, but what you don't understand, not being a Badger fan, is that the Wisconsin program was basically destroyed by one AD, Pat Richter, who didn't give a flying Wallenda about women's sports in general. When Jane Albright retired, the job was supposed to go to Art Brown, her assistant, who had been pretty much promised the job when he was hired. However, Richter listened to a bunch of extremely shrill feminists who insisted that nothing would do but a female coach, period, and refused to consider Brown. He hired the Coach from Drake, who had a winning program there, but she was absolutely not up to the job, and Wisconsin became the swamp it is today. Wisconsin players go elsewhere. Tsipis is a good coach, but he didn't have a recruiting base in the area. Neither does Moseley. I don't know what, if anything, they can do to get WBB on track there. |
That's sort of ancient history. Barry Alverez has been athletic director at Wisconsin for EIGHTEEN YEARS. Whatever happened prior to 2004, he's had plenty of time to change and fix it, and whatever the current situation is falls entirely in his lap. My point is, I think he's tried with his last two hires. He put up enough money, and he hired coaches that, on paper, were fully suited to the job. The reality is that most hires don't work out, and Tsipis didn't. Maybe their current coach will.
BTW, Tsipis spent nine years as an assistant and associate coach for Muffet. ND doesn't limit or even concentrate their recruiting in the midwest, but they certainly do enough for him to have built a familiarity and relationships. I'm not sure why he didn't do any better. But I'm not convinced you can characterize his hire as manifesting a lack of effort by the school.
I'll be surprised if Illinois makes as much effort or investment as Wisconsin has with their last two attempts. |
Got news for ya, Art. Barry Alvarez cares as much about WBB as Pat Richter did. Just like Pat, he's all about football and MBB and clueless about WBB. That's why he hired mid-major coaches from the east. And being a former assistant at your alma mater, Art, does not give a coach an automatic recruiting base in Wisconsin, much as you or I would like it to be so. I don't foresee Illinois doing any better, either.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:12 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
I thought so too, but what you don't understand, not being a Badger fan, is that the Wisconsin program was basically destroyed by one AD, Pat Richter, who didn't give a flying Wallenda about women's sports in general. When Jane Albright retired, the job was supposed to go to Art Brown, her assistant, who had been pretty much promised the job when he was hired. However, Richter listened to a bunch of extremely shrill feminists who insisted that nothing would do but a female coach, period, and refused to consider Brown. He hired the Coach from Drake, who had a winning program there, but she was absolutely not up to the job, and Wisconsin became the swamp it is today. Wisconsin players go elsewhere. Tsipis is a good coach, but he didn't have a recruiting base in the area. Neither does Moseley. I don't know what, if anything, they can do to get WBB on track there. |
That's sort of ancient history. Barry Alverez has been athletic director at Wisconsin for EIGHTEEN YEARS. Whatever happened prior to 2004, he's had plenty of time to change and fix it, and whatever the current situation is falls entirely in his lap. My point is, I think he's tried with his last two hires. He put up enough money, and he hired coaches that, on paper, were fully suited to the job. The reality is that most hires don't work out, and Tsipis didn't. Maybe their current coach will.
BTW, Tsipis spent nine years as an assistant and associate coach for Muffet. ND doesn't limit or even concentrate their recruiting in the midwest, but they certainly do enough for him to have built a familiarity and relationships. I'm not sure why he didn't do any better. But I'm not convinced you can characterize his hire as manifesting a lack of effort by the school.
I'll be surprised if Illinois makes as much effort or investment as Wisconsin has with their last two attempts. |
Got news for ya, Art. Barry Alvarez cares as much about WBB as Pat Richter did. Just like Pat, he's all about football and MBB and clueless about WBB. That's why he hired mid-major coaches from the east. And being a former assistant at your alma mater, Art, does not give a coach an automatic recruiting base in Wisconsin, much as you or I would like it to be so. I don't foresee Illinois doing any better, either. |
"Mid-major coaches from the east"  There is a hell of a big difference between George Washington and Boston Univ. In four years at GW, Tsipis took GWU to two first place and one second place finishes in the A10. The A10 is certainly a heck of a lot bigger time conference than the Colonial, but you certainly would never have complained if your hero Kenny Brooks had been hired by Wisconsin. I doubt we would have seen him dismissed as a "mid major coach from the east" but that's exactly what he was when he was hired by VaTech (in fact he's never coached anywhere outside Virginia).
Reality is most ADs don't know much about WBB. The point is that Alvarez put up sufficient money for a good coach ($650K was good money in 2016) and hired a successful coach with a good pedigree. He tried, it didn't work. That's the way it often goes.
Might as well go back to your original blaiming it on Richter.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:20 pm ::: |
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| Illinois is absolutely a trap. They have all the superficial attributes of a job that should be a great opportunity- Power 5! Proximity to a major recruiting area! Decent facilities, as far as I can tell! But clearly the job is either cursed or the institutional support is zilch. They’ve tried every kind of coach under the sun, and none of them have worked.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:31 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Syracuse has announced a national search for their next WBB coach |
I understand it's supposed to sound serious or impressive or big time, but I always wonder what that's actually supposed to mean. Schools say that all the time, but seriously, what's the alternative? Did we expect them to announce "we don't plan on considering anyone West of Rochester, East of Albany or South of Ithaca"?
Heck even Colgate hired a coach from GWU. Buffalo hired a coach from IU. What does Syracuse intend to convey with that National Search announcement?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:35 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| What does Syracuse intend to convey with that National Search announcement? |
I believe the intention is to convey that Vonn Read isn't getting the job full time
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:36 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Illinois is absolutely a trap. They have all the superficial attributes of a job that should be a great opportunity- Power 5! Proximity to a major recruiting area! Decent facilities, as far as I can tell! But clearly the job is either cursed or the institutional support is zilch. They’ve tried every kind of coach under the sun, and none of them have worked. |
You could say the same thing about their football program.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:37 pm ::: |
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| In my defense, GW is considered a mid-major, and they play in a mid-major conference, the A-10, so don't @ me. And BU is very much a mid-major, Patriot League. I'm not disputing the fact that the CAA is a rather inferior mid-major conference, either. JMU is leaving the CAA and shaking the dust off our sneakers to join a somewhat better one, the Sun Belt. But I never claimed JMU wasn't a mid-major, either.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/22 5:37 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| What does Syracuse intend to convey with that National Search announcement? |
I believe the intention is to convey that Vonn Read isn't getting the job full time |
Thank you. That actually makes sense for once.
Most of the time I hear that, it's just a soundbite headscratcher.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/04/22 7:17 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Illinois is absolutely a trap. They have all the superficial attributes of a job that should be a great opportunity- Power 5! Proximity to a major recruiting area! Decent facilities, as far as I can tell! But clearly the job is either cursed or the institutional support is zilch. They’ve tried every kind of coach under the sun, and none of them have worked. |
Way back machine to what I think was jolette Law’s first recruiting class. And I believe they already had Jenna Smith in house.
https://dailyillini.com/sports-stories/2008/11/13/womens-basketball-adds-depth-talent-for-2009/
But this class never reached potential and some never reached the court. I think Destiny Williams went to Baylor and never arrived in Champaign. Brooklyn Pope took a more circuitous route to Waco by way of Rutgers if memory serves me right. In five seasons Law was 69-93.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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ArtBest23
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/06/22 12:37 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| I think the actual contrast to “national search” is “this coach is leaving and their successor is already in place” as we’ve seen with Purdue and Marist. |
Marist? Brian Giorgis is leaving? I always thought his trajectory was an upward one, right after his Cinderella season of knocking off highly ranked Ohio St early in the NCAA tournament.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/06/22 8:43 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| I think the actual contrast to “national search” is “this coach is leaving and their successor is already in place” as we’ve seen with Purdue and Marist. |
Marist? Brian Giorgis is leaving? I always thought his trajectory was an upward one, right after his Cinderella season of knocking off highly ranked Ohio St early in the NCAA tournament. |
Retiring after next season.
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 03/07/22 2:56 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Virginia has announced the termination of Tina Thompson's contract |
The official release:
"CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. – Virginia director of athletics Carla Williams announced today (March 3) the termination of head women’s basketball coach Tina Thompson’s contract. Thompson had one year remaining on her contract after being named the program’s head coach on April 16, 2018. Williams said a national search will begin immediately to name the program’s next head coach.
“Unfortunately, we have not experienced the kind of success this program has come to expect and deserve,” Williams said. “I am thankful for Coach Thompson’s efforts and I wish her the very best.”
During her four-year tenure at Virginia, Thompson’s teams produced a 30-63 record. This year’s UVA team was eliminated from the Atlantic Coach Conference tournament on Tuesday following a 61-53 loss to Wake Forest in the first round."
That should be a pretty darn good job if they do a decent search and sales job. AND if they are willing to pay an appropriate salary (a very big if). If they are serious about trying, they ought to be able to hire a really good coach. |
Do you think Tammi Reiss is the top candidate? Or would a bigger name want to fight in the ACC?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/07/22 7:22 pm ::: |
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Jim Littell out at Oklahoma State
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33448085
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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thefutureisbright
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