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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 09/28/15 9:21 am ::: Transfers and abusive coaches |
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A great point in the SI article on abusive coaches:
One reason athletes (and especially female athletes) will take the abuse coaches hand out is that the power lies with the coaches and the schools. Players know that if they transfer, they must sit out a year, and that just gives the coaches more power.
If players knew they could transfer and be immediately eligible, the power balance would shift a little towards athletes and away from coaches -- which, given the history of abusive coaches in all sports at all levels, would be a good thing.
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 09/28/15 9:50 am ::: |
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| Do you have a link to the SI article you reference? Is it a new article? Or an older one?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 09/28/15 10:01 am ::: |
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| Whenever you talk about an article, a link should be supplied. Thanks.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/28/15 12:05 pm ::: |
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Sorry ... I'm a print subscriber, and I just looked on the website and have no idea how to find the article. I can access it a .pdf version of the magazine, but no links are apparent.
If someone can do this -- it's "Abusive coaches" -- please tell me how and I will in the future.
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 09/28/15 1:01 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Sorry ... I'm a print subscriber, and I just looked on the website and have no idea how to find the article. I can access it a .pdf version of the magazine, but no links are apparent.
If someone can do this -- it's "Abusive coaches" -- please tell me how and I will in the future. |
Thanks for looking. I didn't know if I'd missed something when I looked at their page or it wasn't there. I'll check out the print mag.
I completely agree with you that the players have no leverage or power. And abusive coaches will take advantage of that. I think forcing players to sit a year if they want to transfer is too restrictive.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 09/28/15 5:05 pm ::: |
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'abuse' is one of those words that's not totally quantifiable.
There are some things that ALL of us would agree is abuse...but there are many more that are a totally individual thing. I would say that some kids might think a raised voice or reduced playing time or making them run an extra set of suicides for missing a FT is abuse.
Just saying it's not an absolute.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 09/28/15 6:09 pm ::: |
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| Another possible reason for players having to sit for a year may be to discourage tampering. If players could switch schools and play immediately there might be an increase of coaches/boosters being tempted into luring talented players to their schools. Especially in the men's game.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 09/28/15 6:41 pm ::: |
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| The good guys are 1 and done, so the only luring is big money outside of college.
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dtrain34
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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Location: Lacey, Washington
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| Posted: 09/29/15 4:39 pm ::: |
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Abusive or not, the elimination of the sit-out transfer rule is overdo, particularly since, as some one just pointed out, a few of the best men's players are one and done each year, others leave early, football has early departures and, if I'm not mistaken, redshirting is not required in the partial scholarship sports as it is.
In my own experience, my daughter went on a recruiting visit to a school she was very interested in (but did not end up at) and during the mandatory football game outing, the head coach excused himself from sitting with the girls to sit in the press box with the visiting AD, an old friend.
Lo and behold, the coach was hired right after the season to coach that visiting team, his replacement left quickly and the school is on its third head in the last three-plus years. Making a kid stay through all that is absurd. In fact, when the school wouldn't release a standout freshman to the coach's new school, she took her talents to JC and played out her career elsewhere anyway.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 09/30/15 6:07 am ::: |
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| I haven't read the article in SI yet, but are they talking about ACTUAL abusive coaches, or stuff that players THINK is abusive but is only a result of pampered upbringing? |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/30/15 7:45 am ::: |
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Bear Bryant wasn't considered abusive in his early days ...
So yes, all the complaints come from pampered kids who just can't stand a little tough love. After all, what's wrong with being told you're worthless, a waste of a scholarship and other such motivational tactics? It's all worth it if you win, right?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 09/30/15 1:02 pm ::: |
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Wow. That's a little defensive, especially when that was actually a very good question. The "marshmallowing" of this society is spreading at a rapid rate. There is a growing segment of this population that wants to be taken of, given things without actually earning it.
I remember running until some of my teammates were puking. Some yelled at them, some tried to pick them up, some couldn't do anything because they were hurting...today, I bet many people would say this is abuse. In my experience, it got us closer as a team and taught us all a little bit about things like leadership, teamwork, dealing with adversity, you're only as strong as your weakest link, etc.
If you polled everyone on this site what they thought constituted physical or mental abuse, I bet we would have many different definitions.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 09/30/15 1:47 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Bear Bryant wasn't considered abusive in his early days ...
So yes, all the complaints come from pampered kids who just can't stand a little tough love. After all, what's wrong with being told you're worthless, a waste of a scholarship and other such motivational tactics? It's all worth it if you win, right? |
Damn ClayK, it was a legitimate question. Thanks for reminding me of the pointed outlook of most of the people on this board. I'd almost forgotten. |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/30/15 2:12 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
If you polled everyone on this site what they thought constituted physical or mental abuse, I bet we would have many different definitions. |
That is the best point in this thread.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/30/15 3:02 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
If you polled everyone on this site what they thought constituted physical or mental abuse, I bet we would have many different definitions. |
That is the best point in this thread. |
I suspect if you polled every member of most of the teams where the complaints have arisen, you would have many different definitions, and radically different views of whether any abuse occurred.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 09/30/15 3:03 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
If you polled everyone on this site what they thought constituted physical or mental abuse, I bet we would have many different definitions. |
That is the best point in this thread. |
And it feeds back into the premise of ClayK's original post.
While we have set standards for what would constitute criminal abuse, most cases are not that clear cut. Where does the line exist between bullying and coaching? Is there a set line? Who determines it, the coach or the player? Or do we as outside viewers determine that action A was just quality coaching while action B was over the top bullying/abuse?
I really don't think there is a correct answer here for most cases. While it is not fair to a coach to label them abusive due to a sensitive players feelings when most reasonable people wouldn't classify their behavior as such, it is just as unfair for us to determine that the sensitive player is somehow not entitled to their feelings--or worse, that because they are sensitive they are somehow inferior to others. I mean, really, "Marshmallows?"
What should be clear is that different players respond to different styles of coaches. Some love the in your face "tough love" style and are motivated by it. Some would be broken by it. Which brings us back to the original premise: that not being able to transfer locks players in ill-fitting relationships that they may find abusive or harmful to their physical or mental well-being. Instead of them being free to explore other options that may fit them better, they feel trapped. There doesn't need to be some objective standard for "abuse". The subjective relationship between each player and each coach is what matters here. All relationships should have a balance of power (power not to be mistaken for authority), and unbalanced power dynamics are never healthy. The rules shouldn't pressure a player to stay in a relationship that they find troubling, any more than any individual should feel pressured to stay in any relationship they find harmful. Yet it seems a fair concern that the transfer rule may in fact do that.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/30/15 4:24 pm ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Bear Bryant wasn't considered abusive in his early days ...
So yes, all the complaints come from pampered kids who just can't stand a little tough love. After all, what's wrong with being told you're worthless, a waste of a scholarship and other such motivational tactics? It's all worth it if you win, right? |
Damn ClayK, it was a legitimate question. Thanks for reminding me of the pointed outlook of most of the people on this board. I'd almost forgotten. |
My apologies ... I overreacted to the "pampered upbringing" phrase. I assumed the point being made was that pretty much anyone who claimed abuse about anything less than physical had simply been "pampered."
Or, the flip side, that those who had not been "pampered" were somehow immune to certain kinds of abuse, or at least would be used to it so it wouldn't really count.
Some kids who have lived a life of luxury are tough and competitive; some kids who have lived a life on the edge of poverty use that as a constant excuse.
And vice versa.
The point is that the transfer rules give more power and authority to coaches, who already have most of the power and authority in the athlete-coach relationship, and just makes abuse that much more likely to occur.
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Youth Coach
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| Posted: 10/01/15 5:59 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
My apologies ... I overreacted to the "pampered upbringing" phrase. I assumed the point being made was that pretty much anyone who claimed abuse about anything less than physical had simply been "pampered."
Or, the flip side, that those who had not been "pampered" were somehow immune to certain kinds of abuse, or at least would be used to it so it wouldn't really count.
Some kids who have lived a life of luxury are tough and competitive; some kids who have lived a life on the edge of poverty use that as a constant excuse.
And vice versa.
The point is that the transfer rules give more power and authority to coaches, who already have most of the power and authority in the athlete-coach relationship, and just makes abuse that much more likely to occur. |
Apology accepted.
I have no problem with a free transfer rule. I just was concerned that claims of abuse could be used to make a transfer easier for people who are only wanting to transfer because they ran up against someone who didn't give them everything they wanted. |
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Youth Coach
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 10/01/15 9:26 am ::: |
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| Thanks, YC. It's a lot easier to discuss an article when you can actually *read* it! I don't subscribe to SI and I wasn't going to go buy the issue for one article. I'm also a little too busy right now to run 15 miles to the library to read it.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 10/01/15 11:03 am ::: |
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| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want.
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Youth Coach
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| Posted: 10/01/15 12:42 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Thanks, YC. It's a lot easier to discuss an article when you can actually *read* it! I don't subscribe to SI and I wasn't going to go buy the issue for one article. I'm also a little too busy right now to run 15 miles to the library to read it. |
Hell, I've been a subscriber for nearly 30 years. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/01/15 2:23 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Thanks for posting about this and supplying the link. I had an epiphany about 7 years ago after hearing about so much that went on behind closed doors at the college level that I have always tried to see the athletes side. I don't see the need for keeping players at schools where they feel uncomfortable and why would anyone want to keep them there, other than to wield power. So why not allow players to go where they want. |
Why? For the same reason these rules, and the entire LOI process, were put in place in the first place.
Because if you don't have restrictions, some coaches will try to abuse the system and recruit players right off other team's rosters.
Despite the view some here seem to have that the whole system was simply designed to screw the athletes, it actually was created to protect schools from unscrupulous competing schools and coaches.
I don't think most people believe that subjecting kids to 24/7/365 recruitment, not only prior to college, but throughout their college career, is a desirable thing or beneficial to their education.
Although I'm sure there's a few here who think it would be great.
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Nixtreefan
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| Posted: 10/01/15 2:39 pm ::: |
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If you are going to make that kind of assertion, where and who are these coaches doing all these things? I also don't see how if these coaches are so shady why any rules would stop them. With all the recruiting, the length of the season, where on earth would they get the time to do all this shady stuff you refer to? It sounds like the "Storm is coming" in CA when we get an inch of rain.
It just sounds like paranoia to me. Who else in the real world has this type of power over individuals, let alone naive 18 year olds.
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