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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: 10/09/16 12:21 pm ::: |
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| Interesting that they see this as turning Tesla into "roadkill". The Tesla fanatics seem to mostly think that Tesla has a lead that they will never relinquish to the big automakers.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/09/16 3:27 pm ::: |
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In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.
Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead?
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 10/09/16 4:17 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.
Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead? |
But it is the leading electric car maker. They see electric cars as rapidly taking over the marketplace and big auto not prepared for it, and think that Tesla can rapidly build up their production capacity. They also look at the Tesla Supercharger Network as giving them a huge edge (even though they built it up to some significance in only a few years).
I personally think that if electric cars took off, the big auto makers would have more of an advantage from their production experience than Tesla has from electric car knowledge. Tesla also "open sourced" all, or most of their patents in the interest of making electric cars gain in popularity faster and driving overall costs down as well as fighting global warming.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/09/16 5:05 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.
Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead? |
But it is the leading electric car maker. They see electric cars as rapidly taking over the marketplace and big auto not prepared for it, and think that Tesla can rapidly build up their production capacity. They also look at the Tesla Supercharger Network as giving them a huge edge (even though they built it up to some significance in only a few years).
I personally think that if electric cars took off, the big auto makers would have more of an advantage from their production experience than Tesla has from electric car knowledge. Tesla also "open sourced" all, or most of their patents in the interest of making electric cars gain in popularity faster and driving overall costs down as well as fighting global warming. |
Distribution.
The big automakers have huge worldwide car, parts, retail sales, and service distribution infrastructure in place.
I think that if Toyota or Ford or VW/Audi got serious about selling electric cars, they would swamp Tesla almost overnight.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/01/19 12:55 am ::: |
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So today Tesla released their $35k version of the Model 3.
The revolution is well underway, competition is ramping up, and EV prices are constantly falling.
I don't know that gasoline cars will ever be completely extinct, but I'm pretty sure they'll have niche status pretty soon and that's great news.
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/01/19 1:21 pm ::: |
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I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.
With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/01/19 2:46 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.
With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime. |
When you ban things for the greater good, that’s when human innovation really steps up.
https://metro.co.uk/2016/04/23/scientists-accidentally-work-out-how-they-could-make-phone-batteries-last-forever-5836772/#ixzz46gaNIvJh
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/01/19 7:03 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see. |
Regret which decision? Trying something different?
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/01/19 8:00 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see. |
Regret which decision? Trying something different? |
Forcing the market by decree is trying something?
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/01/19 8:32 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see. |
Regret which decision? Trying something different? |
Forcing the market by decree is trying something? |
Unless changing regulations and taxation rates is somehow irreversible then yeah, it is trying something. (Something I applaud them for, too. It's an obvious move IMO, and one that we will see elsewhere too. If Europe doesn't push the world then China certainly will)
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/01/19 11:22 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.
With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime. |
This is the most even-handed and cogent thing you have ever said on this web site, and, though I am loathe to admit it, I think you might be right. I think there are likely to be unintended and unexpected consequences to a ban like this.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 22297
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| Posted: 09/23/20 7:53 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Stonington_QB wrote: |
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.
With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime. |
This is the most even-handed and cogent thing you have ever said on this web site, and, though I am loathe to admit it, I think you might be right. I think there are likely to be unintended and unexpected consequences to a ban like this. |
Consequences have been completely expected so far. Pretty much all car companies, plus a bunch of new startups, seeing the obvious future and investing heavily in it, and technology is continuing to improve rapidly as a result.
California now doing their best to join the party:
California To Ban New Gas-Powered Cars By 2035
| Quote: |
California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed an executive order Wednesday that will ban the sale of gas and diesel-powered passenger vehicles in the state by 2035, in the most aggressive legislation to fight climate change taken by any state in the U.S.
KEY FACTS
The executive order requires all new passenger vehicles sold in California to be zero-emission, which includes battery-powered electric cars, vehicles that run on hydrogen fuel cells, and plug-in hybrids that still use some gasoline or diesel in addition to electricity.
The decision is likely to face pushback from the Trump administration, who is already battling California in court over the state’s authority to set auto emissions rules that are more strict than current federal standards, though at least four major car manufacturers have agreed to California’s tougher restrictions.
Under the new order, residents would still be able to own gas-powered vehicles, and sell them on the used-car market.
Transportation causes over 40% of the greenhouse gasses emitted in California, more than any other sector—and the state says banning new gas-powered cars and trucks could drop greenhouse gas emissions by 35%.
Similar legislation has been taken up 15 countries, including the U.K., France and Germany. |
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielcassady/2020/09/23/california-to-ban-new-gas-powered-cars-by-2035/#1fc89e5e29ac
A little disappointing that hybrids escape the ban, but by 2035 they will be mostly irrelevant anyway.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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Luuuc
#NATC
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Luuuc
#NATC
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Shades
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 03/12/25 5:53 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| How is not buying a product supposed to be illegal? |
Apparently you understand the law neither tremendously nor bigly.
Boycotting Harley-Davidson = "Great!"
Boycotting Tesla = Illegal
(Also: Attack Police, Storm the Capitol = "Day of Love"; Vandalise a Tesla Dealership = Domestic Terrorism)
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/17/25 1:51 pm ::: |
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| Hydrogen vehicles will be fine until one turns into the Hindenburg
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 16233
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/22/25 7:56 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| Cost is indeed skyrocketing so far, as long as the skyrocket in question is the SpaceX Starship. |
deargawd, you crack me up!!! 😜😂🤣
This, this, and THIS ^^
tRumphole: "....are trying to illegally and collusively boycott Tesla...."
Can one president get more stupid than this orange-baked turd??
a. "Collusion" is what Boycotts are all about
b. what precisely is "illegal" about a Boycott?
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Last edited by Howee on 03/22/25 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 03/22/25 8:44 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
You're a day late and a dollar short with this graph. Manufacturers are already pivoting away from electrics and putting their R&D into hydrogen vehicles, a REAL viable alternative to ICE. |
Which auto manufacturers are pivoting to hydrogen vehicles?
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bcdawg04
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