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Who won the trade? |
Chicago |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
Dallas |
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71% |
[ 27 ] |
New York |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
Phoenix |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Dallas and New York |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
Dallas, New York, and Phoenix |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Chicago and Dallas |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
Another combination |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
As there were no losers, there were no winners |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 38 |
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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DTP
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 6439 Location: Ohio
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Posted: 02/11/23 5:15 pm ::: |
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I like Mabry but I'm not trading 2024 or 2025 draft picks unless I'm getting a top 10 player in the league....things could get really bad in Chicago. Dallas wins for me.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3510
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Posted: 02/11/23 5:32 pm ::: |
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Who won the trade? DEFINITELY NOT CHICAGO!
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 525
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Posted: 02/11/23 5:49 pm ::: |
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Every team in this trade accomplished goals, but, boy, did Phoenix suffer. Under the current CBA, when a super max salaried player like Diggins gets pregnant the team gets squeezed. They have to replace her productivity while the cap space reduced by $234k. DT is already on record wanting super max $, and one would think BG would also be at that level. One side effect of LV/NY powerhouses is that players on other teams won't sacrifice salary chasing a title. Given the Mercury have also invested $150k apiece for Turner and Sophie, this means they are paying a million for just 4 active players (unless Diggins returns this year). DeShields at $154k just cannot fit, especially b/c she is UFA next year. The trade for Onyenwhere saves them $75k, but that 2025 salary switch with NY is a disaster. The Liberty figure to have great record next year, while both this year and next, the bottom for Phx is shaky. NY could easily get a lottery pic for Onyenwhere, who really had no place on the current Liberty roster (they may well have cut her). Chicago gave up high draft picks for Maybry, but they better not be a lottery team in next year's sparkling draft. I am also not sure how Maybry, Gardner, Courtney Williams and Copper all fit. As for Dallas, who knew Maybry was worth so much???? Besides getting DeShields, they get the #5 pick this year (meh in bad draft), but , as noted, if bottom falls out for Chi, they get a coveted pick next year, and that 2025 swap might also be great.
Last edited by canadaball on 02/11/23 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67491 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/11/23 5:51 pm ::: |
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I don't really like this trade for any of them.
I like Mabrey but not five draft picks worth
Dallas probably did the best thanks to the two 1RPs but DeShields is a downgrade from Mabrey
New York has the highest ceiling out of the trade. If Taurasi retires and Griner either isn't able to get back to form or decides to leave once DT is gone their 2025 1RP could be very valuable
Phoenix gave up a lot to get Onyenwere and a couple of late picks
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Most people hate poetry
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6893 Location: Home
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:07 pm ::: |
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Looks like something our Government would come up with.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:12 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
New York has the highest ceiling out of the trade. If Taurasi retires and Griner either isn't able to get back to form or decides to leave once DT is gone their 2025 1RP could be very valuable |
Perhaps someone else can clarify this. I'm unsure about New York's salary cap situation after signing Stewart and Vandersloot. Didn't the Liberty need to get rid of at least one salary and perhaps two to fit in under the salary cap? If so, then the trade will be helpful for New York quite apart from possible returns from Fiebich and/or the draft picks.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18131 Location: Queens
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:34 pm ::: |
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what is Chicago smoking and in how many jurisdictions is it illegal
_________________ "We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67491 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:38 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
New York has the highest ceiling out of the trade. If Taurasi retires and Griner either isn't able to get back to form or decides to leave once DT is gone their 2025 1RP could be very valuable |
Perhaps someone else can clarify this. I'm unsure about New York's salary cap situation after signing Stewart and Vandersloot. Didn't the Liberty need to get rid of at least one salary and perhaps two to fit in under the salary cap? If so, then the trade will be helpful for New York quite apart from possible returns from Fiebich and/or the draft picks. |
They could have gotten rid of her salary for nothing. Plus Onyenwere is still on a rookie deal so it's not that much money being saved.
_________________ The truth is like poetry
Most people hate poetry
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:40 pm ::: |
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i like this the most for New York – they trade a cuttable player in Onyenwere and amongst other things get the rights to an underrated young player & potential German buddy for Nyara Sabally (should they keep her) in Leonie Fiebich
Dallas made out well on paper – however, their historical success with trades where they trade someone viewed as a really good player and get mostly 1RPs back is spotty
still, i will vote for the option with the two of them
Silky Johnson wrote: |
Who won the trade? DEFINITELY NOT CHICAGO! |
(hence the poll option that lists the other three teams, if that wasn’t obvious to everyone 🌞)
Last edited by Stormeo on 02/11/23 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/11/23 6:49 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
They could have gotten rid of her salary for nothing. Plus Onyenwere is still on a rookie deal so it's not that much money being saved. |
Thanks for clarifying this. Still a positive move for the Liberty if Onyenwere was going to be released anyway.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 10482 Location: Tiburon, CA
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3510
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Posted: 02/11/23 7:41 pm ::: |
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Stormeo wrote: |
(hence the poll option that lists the other three teams, if that wasn’t obvious to everyone 🌞) |
I understand that, but I suppose that I didn't watch enough Liberty games to have a fair opinion of Onyenwere, and I appear to have a higher opinion of DeShields than the other people contributing to this thread, so I'm not prepared to speculate on whether New York, Dallas or Phoenix "won" this trade. The only thing I know is that there are two players in the entire league that I would give up five picks plus a pick swap for, and Marina Mabrey isn't either of them.
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 22163
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Posted: 02/11/23 7:57 pm ::: |
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I watched enough Liberty games to have the opinion of MEH from a Phoenix POV.
Onyenwere is welcome to prove me wrong of course.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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Posted: 02/11/23 8:11 pm ::: |
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i don’t really get why Chicago had to give Dallas one of the two 1RPs they gave them – feels like the trade would be a lot more balanced had Chicago been able to keep either this year’s or next year’s, but this year’s especially
Silky Johnson wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
(hence the poll option that lists the other three teams, if that wasn’t obvious to everyone 🌞) |
I understand that, but I suppose that I didn't watch enough Liberty games to have a fair opinion of Onyenwere, and I appear to have a higher opinion of DeShields than the other people contributing to this thread, so I'm not prepared to speculate on whether New York, Dallas or Phoenix "won" this trade. The only thing I know is that there are two players in the entire league that I would give up five picks plus a pick swap for, and Marina Mabrey isn't either of them. |
i should’ve explicitly said that that wasn’t directed at you, but rather literally to everyone – that poll option was kind of the de facto “idrk who won but Chicago def lost” option
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6835
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Posted: 02/11/23 8:15 pm ::: |
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I also have a higher opinion of Deshields
I assumed Chicagos 5 pick would be going to PX instead of Dallas
Imo Dallas did very well especially if Mabrey didn’t want to return
NY did pretty well Onyenwere was on the bubble her slightly higher rookie salary and Willoughby being guaranteed made her a very possible cut so a swap two years down the road where NY should still be top 4 while PX has question marks is a good outcome
I really like the fit of Mabrey with Copper and C. Will but Chicago gave up too much sometimes you have to pay to play I guess and Dallas had some leverage with Mabrey being restricted.
PX had to free up money to max out Griner and DT and obviously feels Cunningham and Turner are better long term fits
Hopefully Diggins-Smith returns for a second half of season run or gets traded onyenwere at least gives them another serviceable bench player which is looking very thin for PX at the moment
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sithinfiltrator
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 260 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: 02/11/23 9:37 pm ::: |
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This is the type of desperate trade I was expecting the Storm to make. Glad they weren't the Chicago in this trade. That is a LOT to give up for Mabrey and I LIKE Maybrey.
I almost put New York in the win list, because they move some cap money and get some future draft picks. But it is mostly a wash for me.
Phoenix and Chicago are clear losers IMHO.
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 772 Location: Chicago
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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Posted: 02/11/23 11:16 pm ::: |
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it boils down to, Chicago’s in trouble if this trade doesn’t go a long way towards making them into a contender
the perimeter group is bouncy & fun and has some upside if the new additions thrive in Wade’s system, but the post group considering how much talent was lost between last year & this year will keep the team’s ceiling limited
i see them starting a long walk on the Treadmill of Mediocrity for the next few seasons unless they have a stellar free agency next year
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5567 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 02/11/23 11:57 pm ::: |
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Stormeo wrote: |
it boils down to, Chicago’s in trouble if this trade doesn’t go a long way towards making them into a contender
the perimeter group is bouncy & fun and has some upside if the new additions thrive in Wade’s system, but the post group considering how much talent was lost between last year & this year will keep the team’s ceiling limited
i see them starting a long walk on the Treadmill of Mediocrity for the next few seasons unless they have a stellar free agency next year |
Actions speaks louder than words. Wade knows that he is terrible at drafting young players. His philosophy is the only way he can improve his team is by recruiting free agents. He has nothing else.🤷🏾♂️
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4707
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Posted: 02/12/23 3:34 am ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
Actions speaks louder than words. Wade knows that he is terrible at drafting young players. His philosophy is the only way he can improve his team is by recruiting free agents. He has nothing else.🤷🏾♂️ |
And that'd be well & good that he's aware of what his strengths/weaknesses are as a coach. But imo, that's when you delegate the role of [young] player development to one (or all) of the assistants, or a designated player development coach if you can convince the team owners to create the position.
Otherwise, if your best asset is recruiting but you're unable to successfully recruit the players you just coached last year back to the team... it doesn't look good.
That said, this team is one really good post player away from being something of a dark-horse contender if it can be more than the sum of its parts.
If he can't get a Griner or an Ogwumike if they're stuck to their original teams, his best bet at this point would be convincing Meesseman to come back over – and hey, maybe Allemand would likely follow – and/or, I'm just gonna say it, bring aboard Tina Charles. (Not really sure why she'd go there on her end, but she's beginning to run out of options herself at this point.) Even if there were someone he could trade for, he's more or less cleaned out of assets he can give up.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6893 Location: Home
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 525
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Posted: 02/12/23 7:48 am ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
it boils down to, Chicago’s in trouble if this trade doesn’t go a long way towards making them into a contender
the perimeter group is bouncy & fun and has some upside if the new additions thrive in Wade’s system, but the post group considering how much talent was lost between last year & this year will keep the team’s ceiling limited
i see them starting a long walk on the Treadmill of Mediocrity for the next few seasons unless they have a stellar free agency next year |
Actions speaks louder than words. Wade knows that he is terrible at drafting young players. His philosophy is the only way he can improve his team is by recruiting free agents. He has nothing else.🤷🏾♂️ |
I believe Wade has been so profligate with his future #1 picks b/c he knows that next year he will be bringing in UFA/Chicago native Jewel Loyd (and will get her for free).
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24484 Location: London
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Posted: 02/12/23 8:10 am ::: |
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If you think you're getting Loyd that's not a great reason to trade the house for someone whose best position is probably... shooting guard. |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18131 Location: Queens
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