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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15753 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 11/20/22 10:43 am ::: |
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Why are some of y'all so pressed about the polls?
a) of course voters will often 'get it wrong'
b) even if the polls were perfect there'd still be upsets
c) they're fun
_________________ RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 1817 Location: Missouri
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5163 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 11/20/22 1:21 pm ::: |
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Add Marquette (4-0, win over Texas) and Gonzaga (4-0, win over Louisville) and they play today
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/20/22 3:02 pm ::: |
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1 SCar
1a Stanford
3 UConn
4-17 (in no particular order)
Louisville
VaTech
Notre Dame
NCar
Indiana
Ohio St
Iowa
UCLA
LSU
Marquette
Creighton
Villinova
Kansas St
Iowa St
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1370
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Posted: 11/20/22 3:03 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
Add Marquette (4-0, win over Texas) and Gonzaga (4-0, win over Louisville) and they play today |
Add UCLA to that list, although beating Tennessee is becoming less impressive by the day.
_________________ Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67020 Location: Where the action is
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 1817 Location: Missouri
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/21/22 2:03 pm ::: |
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So, Ohio State jumps 4 places to #4 in the country based on . . . . [drum roll] ....... beating 0-4 Ohio and 0-4 McNeese St. . . . . even as the opponent in its "signature win", Tennessee, continues to lose. And Indiana, also living off of the Tennessee name, is rewarded for beating Quinnipiac and Bowling Green with a whopping SIX place jump to an exalted #6 in the country.
Yet Marquette which has better record so far than either of them with wins over Texas and Gonzaga can't even make it into the top 25?
Wow. Just WOW!
Does anybody here seriously think for a moment that Ohio State and Indiana are two of the top six teams in the entire country? If you do, please explain that for me.
And before you go off, this isn't a complaint that Notre Dame is too low. I have no problem with their ranking in absolute terms. While I've been very happy with how they've looked, I don't think they've proven even their number 7 spot yet. (I certainly don't think they belong at 4 either). And as I posted previously, I think it's very hard to distinguish numbers 3-17. But I am pretty confident that Ohio St isn't #4. (And, unlike many, I even happen to like McGuff and what he's got going in Columbus).
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15753 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5424
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Posted: 11/21/22 9:04 pm ::: |
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The problem was the general assumption in the media that a team can bring in 2 or 3 transfers and as long as they were HS stars they can fit in seamlessly.
Tenn & Texas should get better as the season goes on but those loses will hurt their seeding.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 11/22/22 11:48 am ::: |
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linkster wrote: |
The problem was the general assumption in the media that a team can bring in 2 or 3 transfers and as long as they were HS stars they can fit in seamlessly.
Tenn & Texas should get better as the season goes on but those loses will hurt their seeding. |
Most of Texas and Tennessee's transfers were a lot more than just 'HS stars.' They had all balled out at their prior schools so the production at the collegiate level was well there.
And in Texas's case, the issue is less about the transfers not meshing and more about just not having their starting PG who is also their best two-way player.
_________________ RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5424
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 1467
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 11/23/22 3:32 pm ::: |
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I don't think the pollsters actually ever watch games. I think they just pick their "darlings" and move them up or down as they look at the scores. That's all. Same with the men's game and football. It's a sham.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/24/22 4:14 pm ::: |
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As a great example of the "these transfers are going to be superstars and instantaneously launch their new team into Final Four contention" is Viginia Tech.
Tech, led by Kitley and with King and Amoore returning, was going to be a very good team, but all the media could do was drool over how newly-arrived Owusu (Maryland) and Soule (BC) were going to lead them to the top. Both newcomers were even named to the preseason All-ACC team, over for example ND's Westbeld and Citron (who were, BTW, the last 2 ACC Freshman of the Year)
But while it's still early, these two are not setting the world on fire and are currently 5th and 6th on the team in scoring. The media ignored, of course, that Owusu didn't get along with anyone at Maryland, and that on a team led by Kitley, Soule wasn't going to get all those in-the-paint points she got at BC, and can't play a flex forward because she has no outside shot. Predictably, she has made zero 3s this season so far, shooting 0/5.
VaTech may actually contend for the ACC title and even a FF spot, but if they do, it likely will be because of a huge year by Kitley and perhaps King (who is 16/34 from the arc) and not the transfers.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67020 Location: Where the action is
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67020 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/28/22 2:29 pm ::: |
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RPI is starting to look sorta normal
1 Connecticut
2 Creighton
3 Notre Dame
4 Iowa State
5 South Carolina
6 NC State
7 North Carolina
8 UCLA
9 Penn State
10 Utah
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 11/28/22 3:58 pm ::: |
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Kinda crazy that Ohio State and Indiana originally got big bumps by beating Tennessee while Tenn was still ranked way too high. Now Tennessee has fallen out of the rankings, but voters haven't retroactively devalued (if you will) OSU's and IU's wins over Tenn. To me that seems to be one of the main problems with the AP voters' methodology year after year.
_________________ RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 11/28/22 4:15 pm ::: |
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undersized_post wrote: |
Kinda crazy that Ohio State and Indiana originally got big bumps by beating Tennessee while Tenn was still ranked way too high. Now Tennessee has fallen out of the rankings, but voters haven't retroactively devalued (if you will) OSU's and IU's wins over Tenn. To me that seems to be one of the main problems with the AP voters' methodology year after year. |
Correction, not OSU but OhSU or tOSU. Their are two other OSU's - OrSU and OkSU
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15753 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 11/28/22 5:13 pm ::: |
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RPI has always befuddled me, especially when it comes to utilizing a team's opponents' opponents' winning percentages. Didn't the men's side switch to implenting the NET for determining tourney placements?
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The RPI lacks theoretical justification from a statistical standpoint. Other ranking systems which include the margin of victory of games played or other statistics in addition to the win/loss results have been shown to be a better predictor of the outcomes of future games. |
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5424
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Posted: 11/28/22 6:11 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
RPI has always befuddled me, especially when it comes to utilizing a team's opponents' opponents' winning percentages. Didn't the men's side switch to implenting the NET for determining tourney placements?
Quote: |
The RPI lacks theoretical justification from a statistical standpoint. Other ranking systems which include the margin of victory of games played or other statistics in addition to the win/loss results have been shown to be a better predictor of the outcomes of future games. |
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The women use the NET also as their primary measurement tool, but the RPI is still published and it's interesting to look for discrepancies.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67020 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/28/22 10:50 pm ::: |
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RPI is more interesting now that teams aren't trying to game it
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 11/29/22 9:52 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
RPI is more interesting now that teams aren't trying to game it |
Say more about this? Examples, etc. If you're willing
_________________ RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14119
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Posted: 11/29/22 1:44 pm ::: |
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undersized_post wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
RPI is more interesting now that teams aren't trying to game it |
Say more about this? Examples, etc. If you're willing |
RPI is basically about who is the highest ranked (RPI) team you can beat, it doesn't take into account home/road, score, statistics, so team will try to schedule games against mid majors that will win their conference that they know they can beat, or theoretically they should beat, they will pay guarantee money to get it done, now with the NET road wins and neutral site wins mean more, point margin makes a different, other stats are taken into account. Home wins are for lack of a better phrase the worst type of win you can get, road wins are the best, and if you can get a road win my double figures even better. So they way coaches put together their schedules, teams they reach out to, tournaments they enter bring about a whole new philosophy. Part of the reason you see some bigger names all in the same tournament, something you didn't see as much before, for example UCLA will earn more points so to speak in the NET will a neutral site win over Tennessee than they would hosting Tennessee and winning.
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