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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 10482 Location: Tiburon, CA
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 895 Location: NY
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Posted: 08/23/22 10:04 pm ::: |
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agreed. If they can't get Stewart in Free agency, they should try to trade to get Skylar. Get some Stars players in Brooklyn please Mr Kolb
also watching this game, we need big long guards/SF. Looking at Chicago they got the recipe for success with Cooper and Gardner with their length is a killer.
I would draft Diamond Miller or Rickea Jackson in the 2023 WNBA draft at 6 for more defensive length and scoring potential
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/23/22 10:15 pm ::: |
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After a dismal season, I view the end as quite encouraging. New York won four consecutive crucial games: the last three regular-season games and then Game One against Chicago. They lost the series to a significantly better team.
I see many reasons to be hopeful about 2023. After her first full and healthy WNBA season, Sabrina Ionescu will be even better. We've seen how much better the team looks with a healthy Laney. If Johannes and Han return, each should be better after all the WNBA experience they got this season. I'll hope that Sabally will be healthy and can help, that we'll sign one important free agent, and that we'll get good player in the first round of the draft. Finally, I'll hope that Brondello's Year Two, with most of her roster now experienced in working with her and her system, will help as well.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8195
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Posted: 08/23/22 10:44 pm ::: |
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* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites
* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.
* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.
* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 08/24/22 12:45 am ::: |
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Where does Stewart live in the off season when not playing overseas? East coast or West?
I think NY should take one more run at her. That electric atmosphere tonight would be every single night.
_________________ The meteor cannot come fast enough. Start this thing over.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/24/22 1:08 am ::: |
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ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
Where does Stewart live in the off season when not playing overseas? East coast or West?
I think NY should take one more run at her. That electric atmosphere tonight would be every single night. |
I'd say it's a certainty that the Liberty will offer Stewart everything they can under WNBA rules.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 1274
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Posted: 08/24/22 4:56 am ::: |
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zune69 wrote: |
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites
* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.
* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.
* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson. |
MINN could use Dolson. currently Liberty have like 2-3 point guards...
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sithinfiltrator
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 260 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: 08/24/22 5:09 am ::: |
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Stewart owns a home up in Seattle with Marta and Ruby. I don't think she is going anywhere from listening to her talk, but you never know. I think the fact she hasn't signed a contract is because of prioritization in the CBA. the fact that the Storm cored Jewel rather than Stewie tells you that they feel pretty secure that she will resign with Seattle.
_________________ Lisa Stevens
Storm STH
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8195
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Posted: 08/24/22 8:25 am ::: |
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snlMINAJ wrote: |
zune69 wrote: |
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites
* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.
* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.
* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson. |
MINN could use Dolson. currently Liberty have like 2-3 point guards... |
Dolson for N.Milic would work...but NY would probably have to take back Achonwa's contract.
NY has 2-3 pg's but none of those PG's can effectively guard their position. And the PG who gets the most minutes can't effectively run the offense when she's being guarded by athletic defenders.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/24/22 1:41 pm ::: |
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I think the Libs’ issues in certain games are way more post oriented than guard oriented. First off, it’s not normal for teams to trap and hedge 30 feet from the basket on all 3 of the opposing guards. Most teams have forwards or posts who would destroy that type of defense just by catching the ball in open gaps or rolling to the basket. I think a lot of the Libs’ inconsistencies this year, both positive and negative are squarely on Dolson’s impact on the team and the system. The positives are that she’s fundamentally sound, physical, a good open three point shooter, an ok finisher with time and space and a good defender in a tight area. The Liberty tend to consequentially defend teams well when those teams don’t spread them out. Also on offense, the Liberty do well even against defensive pressure when the opposing team isn’t quick enough to rotate or completely sell out on the perimeter at the expense of anything inside. That’s why the Liberty have played well against CT and DC a majority of the time.
But against LV and Chicago (with a healthy Parker), Dolson’s weaknesses directly impact how the Liberty perform. Dolson (and Han) are exposed in these high traps and hedges because they’re not at the best slipping and rolling to the basket. They’re also not effective when the defense speeds them up. Howard is similarly exposed anytime she puts the ball on the floor from 20 feet, although she’s a strong pick and roll player in less spread out defenses. Bird had as many turnovers as Sabrina her first two seasons. Slooty’s aren’t much lower. Maybe Diggins would help a little but I think it’s vastly overstated how much of what transpired is on the guards. Similarly on defense, Dolson can’t help and can’t switch. Anytime the Liberty switched every screen against Vegas or Chicago they got annihilated. Not to say that the guards weren’t a factor. But the Liberty protect the rim poorly. And Dolson trying to close out when switched on guards was just an absolute nightmare. Let alone recovering to help inside after a switch. Contrast that with Stewie and Parker being two of the best help defenders in the sport. It’s a whole different situation for the guards on those teams defending as opposed to NY’s situation. Also, the PGs on those teams don’t routinely get trapped because they have forwards who can hurt you when you do.
Even if the Liberty don’t add much outside of Sabally and the draft, if Sabally is healthy, teams aren’t going to be able to get away with pressuring 5 feet behind the three point line without paying a price. Unlike Dolson and Han, Sabally can catch the ball and put it on the floor and finish.
Me personally, if the Liberty can’t get Stewie and if Nneka isn’t realistic, I’ll pass on other vets. Improve from within in 2023 and go all in on vets and free agency in 2024.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/24/22 4:51 pm ::: |
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Response to NYL_WNBA_FAN:
I mostly agree with your analysis, including your focus on Dolson. In my view, the focus in many comments here on guards or point guards is off the mark. Sure, the Liberty could be better there, but I don't view that as THE problem or as the central problem.
Three things continued to disturb me throughout the season:
1. Horrible stretches on offense. Yes, if you're a team that shoots lots of threes, you'll have times where nothing goes in. But that shouldn't mean that you can't score in other ways. New York had way too many games this season where they'd score eight, 10, 12 points in a quarter. That's a disaster.
2. Very weak interior defense. Here's where Dolson needs to be mentioned, though the blame doesn't fall entirely on her. But a roster shouldn't have been created with Stefanie Dolson as one of the two front-court starters. She has value, as you've said, but not enough for the crucial role she was given. And Han Xu wasn't ready for such a role yet. For me, the Liberty had only one player on the roster who rated being a starter as a post player.
3. Turnovers. Here's where the guards come in, but turnovers weren't limited to the guards. Last night in the first half Chicago built a nice lead in huge part because of disastrous Liberty turnovers (often live-ball turnovers almost immediately converted into baskets). In other respects the teams were playing about even.
My biggest hope for 2023 in terms of roster change isn't getting a better point guard, though I'm certainly not against that. It's getting a better post player to start up front with Howard. Sabally may help, but I don't want to expect too much from a rookie.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/24/22 6:18 pm ::: |
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Now that the 2022 season is over, here is my analysis of the roster moves made by Kolb and Brondello since the end of the 2021 season. (If I've got anything wrong or have missed anything, corrections are welcome. As, of course, are any opinions, whether in agreement or disagreement.)
VERY POSITIVE
Getting Johannes and Han to return to New York. I believe that if each continues to return they will be even better with more experience in the WNBA and more comfort living in New York and the U.S.
POSITIVE
Adding Dangerfield to the roster. I'm not sure I'll want her as one of our 12 active players for 2023, but she definitely helped when she joined the team this year.
IFFY
Signing Dolson. Way too much was expected from her. That's not Dolson's fault. She could be a decent post off the bench. Nothing more.
Extending Willoughby's contract. (Is that the right terminology?) I love everything she does off the court. Have to wonder if she'll really help our team ON the court.
Drafting Sabally. A gamble. Might turn out to be brilliant, might not.
Drafting Sika Kone. No way to evaluate this.
NO COMPLAINT HERE
Not bringing back Shook, Jones, Odom, or Holmes. I remain skeptical that any of them will do much in the WNBA. But I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong.
MISTAKES
Signing Allen. I'm putting this one on Brondello. Allen is valuable at times but I'd rather have seen her 2022 minutes go to someone else.
Drafting Cubaj. But only a very minor mistake given that she was #18 in the 2nd round.
MY OVERALL GRADE: B minus.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6835
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Posted: 08/25/22 4:06 am ::: |
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Realities of 2023
Guaranteed contracts (can not be cut without paying them)
Vet Guaranteed (max 6 we currently have 4)
Howard
Laney
Dolson
Allen
fourth year rookie guarantee (new thing can't cut without paying)
Ionescu
Willoughby
rookie contracts (can waive without paying)
Onyenwere
Richards
Reserved (technically not under contract but can only negotiate with NY)
Johannes
Han Xu
Dangerfield
Unsigned rookie contract (I believe can only sign with NY unless they trade their rights)
N. Sabally
Kone
Carrera
Fauthoux
UFA
Whitcomb
options
pick #6
Owusu
D. Miller
Joens
Blackwell
Cooke
UFA posts
Stewart
N. Ogwumike
B. Jones
A. Stevens
UFA PG
Jefferson
Wheeler
L. Allen
Canada
Hartley
RFA Post
McCowan
RFA PG
Mabrey
Heideman
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 08/26/22 5:32 pm ::: |
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zune69 wrote: |
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites
* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.
* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.
* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson. |
Not if Dallas doesn't get Bri. Jones first👀
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18131 Location: Queens
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Posted: 08/26/22 6:19 pm ::: |
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Brionna Jones is going to get money thrown at her from all sides in quantities not usually attainable while remaining fully clothed.
_________________ "We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5567 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 08/26/22 6:34 pm ::: |
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DFWub2018 wrote: |
zune69 wrote: |
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites
* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.
* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.
* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson. |
Not if Dallas doesn't get Bri. Jones first👀 |
Free Agency is not a race, it's a bidding war.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 4595 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/26/22 9:49 pm ::: |
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Not sure this is the right tread to post this but
Does anyone know what happened to the Liberty poster "Root_Thing" ?
He would always post in the Liberty tread and many times I agreed with
him and many times did not. His posts were always well written.
I also miss his Steven Sondheim avatar.
_________________ Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 08/26/22 9:53 pm ::: |
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I really think NY is one star player away from making a deeper run in the playoffs.
However, do they need to sure up the center spot too? I know they have Dolson for another year, but what about beyond?
_________________ The meteor cannot come fast enough. Start this thing over.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 08/27/22 2:57 pm ::: |
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Lib Fan wrote: |
Not sure this is the right tread to post this but
Does anyone know what happened to the Liberty poster "Root_Thing" ?
He would always post in the Liberty tread and many times I agreed with
him and many times did not. His posts were always well written.
I also miss his Steven Sondheim avatar. |
I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 08/27/22 6:17 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return. |
I'm sending you a private message.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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ChasingRatDogmaSalade
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 627 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: 08/28/22 9:39 am ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return. |
Can you share any flacid plans he might have with us?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18131 Location: Queens
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Posted: 08/28/22 5:47 pm ::: |
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Hey, guys, just as a heads-up, even if you opted out for next season, check your credit cards. We told our rep on multiple occasions that we couldn’t commit to a full season next year and wanted to dial back the cost anyway, and I filled out the opt-out form, and they still charged me for our 2023 tickets. Which, let me tell you, was a hell of a surprise when I went to pay my credit card bill and found a $2400 charge.
_________________ "We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4171
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15838 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 08/28/22 7:34 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Even if the Liberty don’t add much outside of Sabally and the draft, if Sabally is healthy, teams aren’t going to be able to get away with pressuring 5 feet behind the three point line without paying a price. Unlike Dolson and Han, Sabally can catch the ball and put it on the floor and finish. |
As Bob has also said, Nyarra can be *iffy*....But: on the premise that she's completely healthy, I'd say she's worth the gamble. I know when Oregon was stumbling (a lot!) last year, she demonstrated not only skill but great leadership when needed. I doubt she'll ever be a dominating player (I'd love to be wrong) but she can be a very strong asset, if she's cultivated correctly.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5567 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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