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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 1474
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Posted: 06/30/22 8:00 pm ::: PAC 12 no more |
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Ugh… https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/Stanford-s-Tara-VanDerveer-calls-UCLA-USC-exit-17277984.php
Here’s an overview: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/AP-source-USC-UCLA-in-process-of-joining-Big-Ten-17277412.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
Quote is from SF Chronicle story (first link).
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For football, the positives are obvious: a whole lot of money. For almost everything else except for men’s basketball, it gets tricky.
“I mean, this might be great for football, I just have a hard time seeing how it can really play out in a positive way,” said Stanford women’s basketball coach Tara VanDerveer in an interview with The Chronicle. “Just as an example, playing three time zones away. … We just have to figure out how it is going to impact basketball and to keep basketball relevant on the West Coast, with great players, and figure out ways how it’s going to work for us.”
Both UCLA and USC can escape financial penalty by leaving the conference in 2024, after the Pac-12 television rights, of which they are tied to, expire following the 2022-23 school year. The loss of two flagship programs significantly decreases the worth of a television deal for the Pac-12, whose biggest schools are now Oregon and Washington. The revenue loss could have a stark impact on women’s and non-revenue programs across remaining Pac-12 schools. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15747 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2815 Location: New York
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Posted: 07/01/22 7:00 am ::: |
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I actually think this might get Cori Close over the hump. There are a lot of east coast kids who probably would love to go to UCLA and ALSO have their families see them play. She is building something at UCLA now and while the B1G is probably a bit deeper of a conference in WBB, the Pac-12 is/was certainly better at the top.
I mean, how will the travel work out? You can't have these kids on 6, east coast road trips a year, can you? That's a lot of travel. Like, UCLA/USC are going to to have to travel to Penn State/Rutgers for Thursday/Sunday games in January, fly back, only to go to Ohio State/Michigan the next weekend? I know it won't be like that, but wow!
This is just wild.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8950
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Posted: 07/01/22 7:50 am ::: |
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ucbart wrote: |
I actually think this might get Cori Close over the hump. There are a lot of east coast kids who probably would love to go to UCLA and ALSO have their families see them play. She is building something at UCLA now and while the B1G is probably a bit deeper of a conference in WBB, the Pac-12 is/was certainly better at the top.
I mean, how will the travel work out? You can't have these kids on 6, east coast road trips a year, can you? That's a lot of travel. Like, UCLA/USC are going to to have to travel to Penn State/Rutgers for Thursday/Sunday games in January, fly back, only to go to Ohio State/Michigan the next weekend? I know it won't be like that, but wow!
This is just wild. |
Would be nice if they could do something like Rutgers/Maryland one weekend, then make sure that they are home the next week. Maybe an off week or even play each other that weekend - one game at most. If they do have to do back to back road trips, make one of them a 'short' trip, some combination of IA/NE/MN. Or even just one game at NE.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 1474
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Posted: 07/01/22 6:26 pm ::: |
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Per usual, academics and student well being take a back seat to football cash. They shouldn’t really call it college football…more like a semi-pro league.
I’m glad to fan of D3 sports and the Ivy League. Hope Cal and Stanford can keep a path forward to preserve a wonderful rivalry. 😞
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 602
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 07/02/22 7:14 pm ::: |
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I wish we could separate football from the other sports in terms of conferences. It just doesn't make sense for many of the 'lesser' sports.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 07/02/22 7:25 pm ::: |
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For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST?
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5381 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 07/03/22 9:18 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I wish we could separate football from the other sports in terms of conferences. It just doesn't make sense for many of the 'lesser' sports. |
The other sports could not survive financially without the revenue earned from football.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021 Posts: 455 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 07/03/22 12:57 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST? |
Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.
On OK State specifically, they have been a top 25-30 football brand for over a decade, they are top 20 in most sports they field, and their basketball programs are at least recruiting better with potential to become top 20-30 teams in the near future. They have begun to invest more heavily into research, and even more into football. If they leave the Big 12, they have their eyes set on the B1G or SEC, and quite frankly have a better case than most if the decision is based on improving quality and financial gain.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 07/03/22 2:42 pm ::: |
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okstateguy wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST? |
Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.
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you really think adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF takes the B12 off life support?
I think both the B12 and the PAC? lose value. That's the whole idea of creating these two super conferences.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021 Posts: 455 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 07/03/22 5:12 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
okstateguy wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST? |
Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.
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you really think adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF takes the B12 off life support?
I think both the B12 and the PAC? lose value. That's the whole idea of creating these two super conferences. |
The Big 12 was expected to lose 25-60% of their tv payout, and with the additions, they are expected to stay about the same. I'd say that's far from life support(but still financially vulnerable). If this is all about football viewership, then the Big 12 is undoubtedly in a much better position than both the PAC and ACC once Oregon , Clemson, and Florida State join the list of the poached. The PAC and ACC both struggle heavily to bring in viewers, and it will be much worse when they have no flagship teams to buoy those numbers(like Oregon does in the PAC). Just to illustrate, this link shows just how much more vulnerable the PAC and ACC will be without flagships than the Big 12. In comparison to the 5 year average he did before last season, the PAC upper tier has fallen off drastically in tv viewership, and the ACC has declined as well. The PAC and ACC will struggle to find many prospects who can even match the viewership of those left behind. There will definitely be 2 super conferences, but there will only be one other left resembling a power conference, and that is likely the Big 12, thanks to football.
https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858
_________________ okstateguy
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66933 Location: Where the action is
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010 Posts: 2313 Location: Culver City, CA
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Posted: 07/10/22 11:17 am ::: |
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As a UCLA fan and alum, I just want to go on record as saying that I think this move of UCLA's sucks, and I hate it. It's tossing away 100+ years of tradition, for money. It absolutely screws over the other schools in the PAC.
It very likely serves to conclude my interest in college athletics.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010 Posts: 2313 Location: Culver City, CA
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18032 Location: Queens
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Posted: 02/03/23 5:28 pm ::: |
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fuck football
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7851 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 02/03/23 6:32 pm ::: |
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So will it revert to the Pac-10 if they let BYU in? (BYU should not be a mid-major INMSHO)
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 02/03/23 7:41 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
So will it revert to the Pac-10 if they let BYU in? (BYU should not be a mid-major INMSHO) |
BYU has joined the B12
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/03/23 8:20 pm ::: |
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One opinion held by some is that the Pac won't actually "fold", per se, and instead we'd potentially see this mass exodus of pre-existing Pac teams, and the Pac would respond by replacing the departing members by Mountain West schools, perhaps amongst other mid-major west-ish schools.
—You'd have Arizona, ASU, and Colorado cleanly join the Big 12.
—You'd have Washington & Oregon whoring themselves out big-time to Big Ten executives before inevitably once again not getting an invite they'd suck approximately 1,000 dicks to receive, and likely just walk-of-shaming to the Big 12 – which would love to have them anyway, cuz the Big 12 recognizes Washington & Oregon as the [remaining] crown jewels of the conference that would raise the value of all other Big 12 schools. (Some have said the two schools could also elect to go independent, which, lol at that embarrassing result that they'd probably deserve)
—As a result of the B1G's umpteenth rejection, WSU and ORST would beg Washington & Oregon respectively to make them part of the deal to go to the Big 12. Maybe Washington & Oregon humor them? Or, WA & OR state legislatures make the two flagship schools force the Big 12 to take in all four schools. Otherwise, WSU & ORST are shit outta luck in what remains of the Pac.
—Utah's sort of a wild card, in that they could stay or just sorta find themselves in the Big 12 with everyone else's migration, though it seems like no one [including Utah themselves] really wants them in BYU's new conference – except, of course, for BYU.
—And that leaves Stanford & Cal. Stanford could just chill in what's left of the Pac (though with a bunch of academically lesser schools, they'd suppose), go independent in athletics (and have it not be embarrassing), or even join the Ivy Leagues somehow.
—Cal's athletics meanwhile are so broken and hemorrhaging money already. If the current group of Pac schools disperse and Cal doesn't receive the type of money they'd get in the Pac's next media rights deal, some have suggested that Cal's entire athletics programs in a worst-case scenario could dissolve.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nothin' any of us peasants can do about what happens next
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021 Posts: 455 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 02/03/23 8:36 pm ::: |
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I saw where someone determined that if the top 4 PAC schools of tv value(Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and Stanford) went to the Big 12, the payments for the league would rise from 32million to 45 miilion. Based off that, if Arizona came in that package and another of the top schools (Cal or Utah), the Big 12 payout could be anywhere between 40-50 million/school.
I don't think there's any possible route for the league as we have known it to survive even if the media deal is within the scope of the Big 12 payout as is.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/03/23 9:42 pm ::: |
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It’s very odd, cuz Oregon & Washington surely would take a[n initial] discount to join the Big Ten. Meanwhile, if they joined the Big 12, it would raise that conference’s overall value including its own annual payouts by their media deal. So really, those two annual payouts from each “Big” conference could theoretically be the exact same… at least, initially.
If OR & WA join the Big 12, I really hope they’d take their siblings with them. Of course, they certainly wouldn’t be if that Big Ten invite ever comes, and I’d welcome that, too. And I wouldn’t mind at this point if we stayed in the Pac and the Pac invited San Diego State & SMU – that could be fun! I don’t care anymore! None of this is in anyone’s control! Lol!!!
(why yes i have gone mad from this & am posting this from solitary confinement while wearing a straitjacket, neither of which are doing their respective intended purposes, tysm for noticing)
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