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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19766
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Posted: 02/14/20 7:26 pm ::: |
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Well, I like this. I am unabashedly a Hartley fan now. Would like Charles too. And also would Taurasi’s back to last through the season.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21931
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Posted: 02/14/20 7:42 pm ::: |
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For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19766
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22475 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/14/20 8:32 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her. |
We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21931
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Posted: 02/14/20 8:57 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her. |
We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season. |
We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.
eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3319
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 667 Location: Chicago
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66936 Location: Where the action is
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24361 Location: London
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Posted: 02/15/20 12:06 am ::: |
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Also just a reminder, Hartley's French these days. So even if she's healthy, Phoenix may not get 34 games out of her in any of those three seasons. |
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 02/15/20 11:07 am ::: |
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Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24361 Location: London
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Posted: 02/15/20 11:17 am ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts. |
I don't think anyone's begrudging Hartley taking all the money she can get. If someone's going to offer it to you, go ahead and sign it as quickly as possible. But we've just stepped into an era where you can't just pay every vet the max and carry on making any move you want to make. Overpaying X is now much more likely to mean you might have trouble being able to pay/keep/acquire Y or Z. So whether you're paying someone what they're actually worth on the WNBA scale becomes a perfectly reasonable and worthwhile debate. |
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 02/15/20 11:29 am ::: |
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But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
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Posted: 02/15/20 1:06 pm ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas. |
Aren't you a UConn fan? Don't take it personal about Hartley. The WNBA has moved into an era in which player's salary will be called into question in relative to the on court performance. Just like most other professional sports.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/15/20 1:16 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
bballjunkie wrote: |
Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts. |
I don't think anyone's begrudging Hartley taking all the money she can get. If someone's going to offer it to you, go ahead and sign it as quickly as possible. But we've just stepped into an era where you can't just pay every vet the max and carry on making any move you want to make. Overpaying X is now much more likely to mean you might have trouble being able to pay/keep/acquire Y or Z. So whether you're paying someone what they're actually worth on the WNBA scale becomes a perfectly reasonable and worthwhile debate. |
Of course this is right. I'm a Liberty fan. I've never "bashed" Bria Hartley. I think she's an OK player. Nothing more, nothing less. At times, she's terrific on the court; at times, she's far from terrific. I don't believe she should be a starting guard in the WNBA. I think she's a reasonable sub and offers the advantage that she can play both guard positions.
I'm happy for her that she got a three-year max contract. No one reasonable would "begrudge" Hartley getting that deal. But I think it's a ridiculous deal in a league where there are payroll limitations. If Hartley's agent proposed that to the Liberty I'm glad they didn't go along.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 02/15/20 1:43 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her. |
I don't have anything against her in a personal way, but I don't particularly like her as a player. She's totally inconsistent. And to me it always looked like she would get into pout mode when her play wasn't great. Good for her agent to get her that good of a deal, but it looks ridiculous to me from the Mercury point of view. It makes them look kind of desperate really. I think she's a decent backup that you can use when she's 'on' and bench when she's not, but that's not the salary they chose to pay her.
well, we will see. maybe more money makes her play better.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/15/20 4:27 pm ::: |
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If Hartley starts & gets to be their fifth option, she could have herself a good year (assuming she can make open shots).
Of course, the kind of year Phoenix has will once again depend on how healthy DT3 is. Without her - especially if she isn’t healthy to begin the regular season - it’s very hard to say. Bonner + Mitchell > Diggins-Smith + Hartley + whoever else they bring in (unless that someone is somehow Tina Charles)...
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3319
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Posted: 02/15/20 5:13 pm ::: |
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bballjunkie wrote: |
But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas. |
- Firstly, everybody has agendas, one hundred percent of everybody. Even people who don't consider their agendas to be agendas, because of their personal blind spots.
- Secondly, if you think that calling someone overpaid is "taking shots," you're taking all this shit too seriously. I mean, I will stipulate that I stay out of the Liberty thread, because the Liberty have never been relevant to my interest, at any point in time, but I haven't seen anyone in here "bashing" Hartley, as @ChiSky54 implied, certainly not anything that would meet the threshold for what I would consider "bashing," any way.
- It's just humorous that the new CBA played out in such a way that career roleplayers are suddenly able to start getting paid more than perennial All-Stars/former MVPs. But that happens in sports, all the time, and nobody (or almost nobody) is saying that it's something that should be held against Hartley. That still doesn't mean that it's something that we can't see the humor in.
- And besides, I'd take being called overpaid as a compliment: to paraphrase another great American philosopher, I'd rather overpaid than underrated.
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22475 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/15/20 5:51 pm ::: |
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If they get Charles, which forces January out via trade. January, one of B Turner or Smith and the #10 pick to New York? Maybe the Liberty throw in Boy as well?
PG: Diggins/Boyd
SG: Hartley/YTurner/Cunningham
SF: Taurasi/
PF: Charles/ASmith*
C: Griner/BTurner*
*one is included in the Charles trade.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1099 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 02/15/20 7:40 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her. |
We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season. |
We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.
eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi. |
I would agree about being a better value than Taurasi if DT were getting the same money, but unless DT signed a new contract she is not. ?From what DT did last season and what I saw during her few games with the USA team, she appears done as a top-level player. What remains of her career probably will be impacted by a long series of recurring injuries. Still, unlike Hartley, the Mercs did not sign DT to a new free-agent contract, rather she is still playing on her old one. One the team would have to honor regardless of her production. Since all vets pretty much got the same money, DT's contract did not affect the team's cap as much as Hartleys' new max contract will.
What makes Hartleys contract questionable is that under the new agreement teams will be able to only sign a few max contracts so signing Hartley to max seems rather foolish. In respect to predicting a player's value via their contract, players generally do not get paid for what they might produce, but for what they have shown they can produce in the past. The main reason it probably was a foolish contract was that it is very unlikely that another team would have been in competition for her at that price. A major factor in salaries depends on what other teams would offer.
Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team.
_________________ No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/15/20 8:04 pm ::: |
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willtalk wrote: |
Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team. |
Yes, this is exactly the point. Especially for THREE seasons.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21931
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 667 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 02/16/20 8:58 am ::: |
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To clarify: my use of the word "bashing" when referencing how it seemed NY fans were talking about Hartley was not the best choice of words. It overstated the fact that (and my memory is frankly fuzzy) it seemed people who were less than thrilled with her performance on many occasions rather vehemently wanted her taken out of games and couldn't figure out why other players weren't put in sooner. I felt bad for the girl and often said in my head, "Dang, people, leave her alone--she's not that bad!" I am not maternal by any means, but I wanted to give her a hug or some kind of encouragement, and she wasn't on my team!
If Phoenix agreed to pay her that money, more power to her! I hope the change of venue works in her favor. In light of other "fun reminders" that have been mentioned, I have my concerns as to if this will work out in Phoenix's favor.
_________________ There is nothing new under the sun.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 508
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Posted: 02/16/20 1:01 pm ::: |
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willtalk wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her. |
We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season. |
We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.
eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi. |
I would agree about being a better value than Taurasi if DT were getting the same money, but unless DT signed a new contract she is not. ?From what DT did last season and what I saw during her few games with the USA team, she appears done as a top-level player. What remains of her career probably will be impacted by a long series of recurring injuries. Still, unlike Hartley, the Mercs did not sign DT to a new free-agent contract, rather she is still playing on her old one. One the team would have to honor regardless of her production. Since all vets pretty much got the same money, DT's contract did not affect the team's cap as much as Hartleys' new max contract will.
What makes Hartleys contract questionable is that under the new agreement teams will be able to only sign a few max contracts so signing Hartley to max seems rather foolish. In respect to predicting a player's value via their contract, players generally do not get paid for what they might produce, but for what they have shown they can produce in the past. The main reason it probably was a foolish contract was that it is very unlikely that another team would have been in competition for her at that price. A major factor in salaries depends on what other teams would offer.
Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team. |
Amen...When you are committing $215k (and up over 3 years) for both Griner and Diggins, Phx has no business spending $185k+ for Hartley over same time frame. Hartley replaces DT in any future "Big 3" discussion, unless DT plays on, in which case the Hartley salary is an even greater abomination b/c Diana is sure to command top $.
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