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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2559
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24397 Location: London
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Posted: 01/23/20 4:41 pm ::: |
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On a separate topic, remember when we were wondering how USA Basketball were going to cope with the 3x3 Olympic qualifying tournament when it's in March and all the ranked players were college kids (and a USA Basketball article claimed the '2 players from your top 10 must play' rule applied to the qualifier)? Well I was just looking at the rankings again, and they seem to have managed to fix it. There appear to have been a series of tournaments in Pittsburgh in the last couple of months (like, 13 'tournaments'), and by playing in those Kelsey Plum, Allisha Gray and Jackie Young have dragged themselves into USA's top 10 in ranking points. Dolson, KLSamuelson, Clarendon and even Faris seem to have joined in at various points.
Anyway, if the rule does apply, they now appear to have enough pros in place to follow that rule. Whether the team will be good enough to actually qualify remains to be seen. |
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 1427
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4255
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 676 Location: Chicago
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 02/08/20 12:07 pm ::: |
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interesting they're going with pros instead of the college kids that did the qualifiers.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/08/20 12:25 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
interesting they're going with pros instead of the college kids that did the qualifiers. |
The training camps plus the qualifiers are right in the middle of the NCAA season and into the NCAA tournaments. Probably why pros are getting picked instead.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/09/20 6:08 pm ::: |
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Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields need to be in consideration for the Olympic team. There's the core 8 locked in. Griner & Stewart should be locks, too. That's 10. They should be solid inside with those 5, plus Delle Donne able to swing from SF to PF. Two out of Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields should also be on this team. The wrench in this roster is Ionescu and whether she would choose this squad or the 3x3 team.
LOCKS:
PG: Bird/Gray
SG: Taurasi/Diggins-Smith
SF: Delle Donne
PF: NOguwmike/Stewart/Wilson
C: Fowles/Griner
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16464 Location: Holland
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Posted: 02/10/20 2:28 am ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields need to be in consideration for the Olympic team. There's the core 8 locked in. Griner & Stewart should be locks, too. That's 10. They should be solid inside with those 5, plus Delle Donne able to swing from SF to PF. Two out of Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields should also be on this team. The wrench in this roster is Ionescu and whether she would choose this squad or the 3x3 team.
LOCKS:
PG: Bird/Gray
SG: Taurasi/Diggins-Smith
SF: Delle Donne
PF: NOguwmike/Stewart/Wilson
C: Fowles/Griner |
I dont get what you see in Samuelson? She barely got off the bench in Chicago and now you want her on the olympic team?
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12569 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 02/10/20 2:39 am ::: |
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Michelle89 wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields need to be in consideration for the Olympic team. There's the core 8 locked in. Griner & Stewart should be locks, too. That's 10. They should be solid inside with those 5, plus Delle Donne able to swing from SF to PF. Two out of Samuelson, Atkins & DeShields should also be on this team. The wrench in this roster is Ionescu and whether she would choose this squad or the 3x3 team.
LOCKS:
PG: Bird/Gray
SG: Taurasi/Diggins-Smith
SF: Delle Donne
PF: NOguwmike/Stewart/Wilson
C: Fowles/Griner |
I dont get what you see in Samuelson? She barely got off the bench in Chicago and now you want her on the olympic team? |
That part. She’s a poor mans EDD she’s just needed for shooting on this team at the moment , but in no fashion does she deserve to be on this team.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 02/10/20 6:33 am ::: |
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this weeks crystal ball says 2020
Bird/C. Gray/Plum
DT/Diggins-Smith
EDD/McCoughtry
Stewart/N. Ogwumike/Wilson
Griner/Fowles
And I've got Deshields and Collier as the runners up to McCoughtry's spot
and Ogunbowlae as the runner up to Plum's spot
but McCoughtry gets the loyalty/still got it nod and Plum gets the K. Lawson good shooter good teammate spot.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24397 Location: London
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Posted: 02/10/20 7:44 am ::: |
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Samuelson's had one impactful game in a year. Just because it was yesterday doesn't seem like much of a reason for her to make probably the most competitive roster in world basketball.
On a separate note, USA basketball have made it pretty clear that Stewart's the 3 and EDD stays a 4 when they're desperately searching for a small forward. |
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2824 Location: New York
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Posted: 02/10/20 9:16 am ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Samuelson's had one impactful game in a year. Just because it was yesterday doesn't seem like much of a reason for her to make probably the most competitive roster in world basketball.
On a separate note, USA basketball have made it pretty clear that Stewart's the 3 and EDD stays a 4 when they're desperately searching for a small forward. |
Yup....what this team needs, is Maya. I still cry thinking about her sitting out again.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 02/10/20 9:39 am ::: |
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Very much miss Maya but sadly doubt she will be back as she is so passionate about her current passion and it is such a wonderful thing she is doing.
USA needs team players who can play under pressure together. Not in easy blow outs where they can get there own but be able to do what happened in the middle of the third to the end of the game, that’s what we saw with KLS in the game, she was able to come off the bench having not played a second and if you read Reeves own words, had the calmness to give the team what they needed in many ways. Inbounding, breaking press, quick passes to the post, drawing fouls, taking charges, hitting big free throws and big shots ALL under pressure. She has not had many minutes under Reeves and it was Hughes who called it. Dawn played her more in PR and she did well. Look at the players on that team yesterday who struggled when the chips were down. These are the games that show who can perform under pressure and a lot of them couldn’t.
Don’t know who will make the team but if you watched that game, a game which could easily occur in the Olympics, just because they get the PR doesn’t make them players that can get it done when the chips are down.
International teams are playing some great team ball and a bunch of ALL stars may not be the answer any more.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1104 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 02/11/20 9:41 am ::: |
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In no way should Bird be the starting point guard. Consistently in all the games the USA team no matter who they put on the floor with Bird ended up trailing or not playing their best. She just does not have it anymore. I believe they started her out of courtesy and not her play. Consistently, when the team made its surge in close games was with Chelsea Gray at the point. They did that against Brazil when the starters put them into a hole and again against Nigeria. Plum has also shown she is better running the point than Bird. Enough with this locking in Bird as the starting Point guard just from reputation. They could leave her off the team and it would make the team better. She is almost 40 and while still a good player she certainly is not elite anymore.
_________________ No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Posted: 02/11/20 10:19 am ::: |
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willtalk wrote: |
In no way should Bird be the starting point guard. Consistently in all the games the USA team no matter who they put on the floor with Bird ended up trailing or not playing their best. She just does not have it anymore. I believe they started her out of courtesy and not her play. Consistently, when the team made its surge in close games was with Chelsea Gray at the point. They did that against Brazil when the starters put them into a hole and again against Nigeria. Plum has also shown she is better running the point than Bird. Enough with this locking in Bird as the starting Point guard just from reputation. They could leave her off the team and it would make the team better. She is almost 40 and while still a good player she certainly is not elite anymore. |
Her biggest value is probably being the coach on the floor, which is especially valuable when you’re throwing together All-Star players not used to working together. So all the Olympic experience in these situations definitely makes a big difference whether you wanna believe it or not. The person that likely objects the least to the experienced guards coming back is the head coach. The experienced guards make their job so much easier.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Shades
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1104 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 02/19/20 7:47 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
willtalk wrote: |
In no way should Bird be the starting point guard. Consistently in all the games the USA team no matter who they put on the floor with Bird ended up trailing or not playing their best. She just does not have it anymore. I believe they started her out of courtesy and not her play. Consistently, when the team made its surge in close games was with Chelsea Gray at the point. They did that against Brazil when the starters put them into a hole and again against Nigeria. Plum has also shown she is better running the point than Bird. Enough with this locking in Bird as the starting Point guard just from reputation. They could leave her off the team and it would make the team better. She is almost 40 and while still a good player she certainly is not elite anymore. |
Her biggest value is probably being the coach on the floor, which is especially valuable when you’re throwing together All-Star players not used to working together. So all the Olympic experience in these situations definitely makes a big difference whether you wanna believe it or not. The person that likely objects the least to the experienced guards coming back is the head coach. The experienced guards make their job so much easier. |
If her biggest value is as a coach, then she should be on the team as a coach. I don't by that carrying a player because of their so-called mentor or coaching value. I hear that all the time from fans of professional teams who want to keep past their prime declining players and are just looking for excuses to justify it. Basketball is basketball whether in the Olympics or the WNBA playoffs. We are not talking about replacing her with players out of college who have not been under pressure.
The idea that her presence on the floor will make a difference in respect integrating a group of All-Stars is total BS. As I stated in another post that is not the effect she had when she was running the offense as the Point. With her, at the point, the team did not run as smoothly which flies in the face of the belief that her experience would integrate the players better. The only reason they even had her as the starter was out of respecting her reputation. Starting someone else would have been sending a message.
As I stated the idea that the Olympic teams need the experience of 40 year old players is nothing but a BS rationalization to keep them on the team. As another poster stated-- They are not stars anymore. I am not even going bu last season because they were coming off of injuries, but rather the year before. They were good players, but not close to the best at their positions.
Not only do I not believe that in this case, her Olympic experience is that valuable, but I think your perspective lacks objectivity and is motivated by what you want to be true to justify Bird's place as a starter. Objectively her place on the team is even questionable based on her ability and what she has shown.
In fact, I believe the entire "Core Group" concept was purely a means to manipulate the selection process by players who felt they were in danger of not making the team if based on their abilities alone. It gives them an edge because most people would think that their making the sacrifice of giving up their Euro season deserves some sort of quid pro quo. Now Neka and Chelsea probably joined the Core group because the Committee is very funny about putting players on their national team who have not had some sort of USA team experience. Neither of them has ever played on a national team before. So everyone in the Core group had reasons.
I do think that the team should be picked based on team need and compatibility. You don't just throw together All-Stars because then you do run into compatibility and synchronicity problems. That would mean that they might consider taking a couple of specialists such as a shooter and a perimeter defensive specialist.
_________________ No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 02/19/20 11:58 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
The 3x3 Qualifying Team
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looks like a nice team to me...
They'll need to come together in a hurry since there are 20 teams competing for three spots.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 02/20/20 10:13 am ::: |
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I agree with willtalk. Yes, experience matters and so does leadership, but the most important factor in winning games is talent -- and at 40, the talent level is a far cry from what it was at 25.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63869
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Posted: 02/20/20 11:27 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I agree with willtalk. Yes, experience matters and so does leadership, but the most important factor in winning games is talent -- and at 40, the talent level is a far cry from what it was at 25. |
So why does Seattle continue to risk losing WNBA championships by having Bird back? She won one the last time she was able to take the floor for them.
Like I said, Team USA gets thrown together with usually very little practice. That’s when experience on the floor counts, especially at the PG position. Team USA has plenty of athleticism. Bird and Taurasi don’t displace enough of it to make it a team that is not athletic.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 02/20/20 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11186
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Posted: 02/20/20 11:41 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
I agree with willtalk. Yes, experience matters and so does leadership, but the most important factor in winning games is talent -- and at 40, the talent level is a far cry from what it was at 25. |
So why does Seattle continue to risk losing WNBA championships by having Bird back? She won one the last time she was able to take the floor for them.
Like I said, Team USA gets thrown together with usually very little practice. That’s when experience on the floor counts. Team USA has plenty of athleticism. Bird and Taurasi don’t displace enough of it to make it a team that is not athletic. |
I would guess because, unlike USA Basketball, Sue Bird is the best option available to them for a variety of reasons. USA Basketball, however, can pretty much pick anyone (except those they've driven away).
When it comes to the actual games in the Olympics, I think you're right. Bird and Taurasi will be fine in almost all the matchups, so the marginal value of bringing in a more athletic player isn't critical. But it seems to me most people are discussing what the "best" U.S. team should be, not whether this version is capable of winning the gold.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22477 Location: NJ
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