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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 09/19/19 12:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

But is she lazy?

Or is that just a perception because fans expected more?

Atl like NY was awful this season but I am not sure that means individual players were bad or couldn't be better with a change of scenery

I still like Stokes but missing a season after a mediocre season leads me to believe her trade value is not very high, not non existent as she has some size and was a defensive stopper for two seasons, but not enough value that an addition of the #13 puck wouldn't have to be a sweetener to get ideally a player that is better than her. Which begs the question is E. Will a better option than Stokes? If the answer is maybe to yes than the trade makes sense.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know. I haven't paid much attention to EWill this year. However, even if she's not lazy, we shouldn't be anxious and overpay. If the organization, like the fans, perceives Elizabeth as lazy, or if they simply feel she's not worth max money and are trying to unload salary, then the price shouldn't be high. Look at how LA handled Jantal Lavender. The Sparks needed to clear cap space and were desperate to trade her. All it took was a 2nd Round pick.

As far as giving EWill a look goes, I'm OK with that. Williams at her best is better than Stokes at her best. Williams looks like she can still block shots without fouling. They both average 2.4 fouls per game for their careers, but EWill plays 7.0 mpg more. She also has a higher blocks-per-minute rate. The other bonus is that Williams played with Zahui in Russia, and that was the best I ever saw Amanda play. She and EWill seem to have good chemistry. So yeah, if you're convinced that Atlanta fans are over-reacting (and I'm sure we'll hear from them Wink ) then I'd be OK with trading for EWill. However, we shouldn't overpay. Maybe we do a change of scenery trade involving multiple players that fans are sick of -- like Stokes and Boyd in exchange for EWill and Montgomery. NY gets the more established players, but they have to swallow much bigger contracts, Also, Monty is significantly older than Boyd.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 1:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can any Liberty STH confirm that calls have been going out for 2020 and that they're being asked for a $100 deposit at BARCLAYS?



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Shmermerer1



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Maybe it took them a while to diagnose it correctly. I found a few articles on that - symptoms are like a groin pull. Also there is some doubt as to whether surgery is more effective than PT.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/hip-labrum-surgery-is-it-the-right-treatment-4159910


Didn't she have a major groin injury and surgery before or during her freshmen year of college?


Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="toad455"]Can any Liberty STH confirm that calls have been going out for 2020 and that they're being asked for a $100 deposit at BARCLAYS?[/quote

I am a STH and have NOT received any call like that



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I don't know. I haven't paid much attention to EWill this year. However, even if she's not lazy, we shouldn't be anxious and overpay. If the organization, like the fans, perceives Elizabeth as lazy, or if they simply feel she's not worth max money and are trying to unload salary, then the price shouldn't be high. Look at how LA handled Jantal Lavender. The Sparks needed to clear cap space and were desperate to trade her. All it took was a 2nd Round pick.

As far as giving EWill a look goes, I'm OK with that. Williams at her best is better than Stokes at her best. Williams looks like she can still block shots without fouling. They both average 2.4 fouls per game for their careers, but EWill plays 7.0 mpg more. She also has a higher blocks-per-minute rate. The other bonus is that Williams played with Zahui in Russia, and that was the best I ever saw Amanda play. She and EWill seem to have good chemistry. So yeah, if you're convinced that Atlanta fans are over-reacting (and I'm sure we'll hear from them Wink ) then I'd be OK with trading for EWill. However, we shouldn't overpay. Maybe we do a change of scenery trade involving multiple players that fans are sick of -- like Stokes and Boyd in exchange for EWill and Montgomery. NY gets the more established players, but they have to swallow much bigger contracts, Also, Monty is significantly older than Boyd.


I think if I go along with the Ewill+13 trade for Stokes the few remaining Dream fans will vote me off the island for good. (Of course, then I could a NY fan which looks a lot more promising). Biggest problem I see with Stokes is her foreign entanglements. I forgot what country she is pledging allegiance to now, but a player having a second home is tough on a WNBA team (as the Liberty found out.) So I'd avoid that where possible. Plus, Stoke, like Williams seemed to have her best seasons 3 or 4 years ago and she seems to suffer from a lot of injuries.

Boyd and 13 would be a different story. I haven't looked at her numbers but I can't believe they would be any worse than Bentley or Cazorla's.

BTW - we are having sale this week only on Cazorla, either 13, Stokes or Boyd. Got to make your new star happy and welcome. Else she might get homesick in a few years (if Lacob ever gets his team.) Just ask ClayK.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
But is she lazy?

Or is that just a perception because fans expected more?


Good defensive players usually aren’t characterized as lazy. Defense is what the lazy players don’t like to play.

How’s this for lazy? Stokes didn’t bother showing up for the WNBA this season. Not only did Williams show up for WNBA this season, she’s now down at the Team USA Miami camp. Seems fairly ambitious to me.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
But is she lazy?

Or is that just a perception because fans expected more?


Good defensive players usually aren’t characterized as lazy. Defense is what the lazy players don’t like to play.

How’s this for lazy? Stokes didn’t bother showing up for the WNBA this season. Not only did Williams show up for WNBA this season, she’s now down at the Team USA Miami camp. Seems fairly ambitious to me.


Just so there is no confusion I am in the Pro Williams camp I think she is a good defender and. Good match with Charles and our perimeter starters.

Randy I would absolutely do Boyd and 13 for Williams so let's get it done.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’d rather have Williams than Dolson. I think Stokes will come back and give the D and rebounding a boost but it’s vitally important IMO to have more than one player to defend the interior in the event Stokes’ conditioning is an issue or she gets hurt.

Not sure if 13 and Boyd would get it done especially since Boyd and Hayes appear to strongly dislike each other. But if Williams were attainable I’d consider it a favorable option compared to what we’ve already got.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Maybe it took them a while to diagnose it correctly. I found a few articles on that - symptoms are like a groin pull. Also there is some doubt as to whether surgery is more effective than PT.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/hip-labrum-surgery-is-it-the-right-treatment-4159910


Having had a torn shoulder labrum, I've researched this quite a bit as well. For an ordinary person, PT can be an option. Had I had enough time to do it, I'd have had surgery but due to some circumstances I couldn't. PT is definitely helping me.

But for a pro athlete, particularly a young one, I think surgery is the only realistic option. Alyssa Thomas is playing with two torn shoulder labrums and can't raise her arms over her head. How she's playing so well is beyond me, but I'd think a hip labrum would be much more problematic. A torn labrum does not heal on its own. PT strengthens areas around your shoulder and increases stability, but does not heal the tear itself.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/19/19 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
But is she lazy?

Or is that just a perception because fans expected more?


Good defensive players usually aren’t characterized as lazy. Defense is what the lazy players don’t like to play.

How’s this for lazy? Stokes didn’t bother showing up for the WNBA this season. Not only did Williams show up for WNBA this season, she’s now down at the Team USA Miami camp. Seems fairly ambitious to me.


Just so there is no confusion I am in the Pro Williams camp I think she is a good defender and. Good match with Charles and our perimeter starters.

Randy I would absolutely do Boyd and 13 for Williams so let's get it done.


Ok- I'll tell Dream to write it up. Laughing


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm guessing that the silence about the Liberty's coaching situation for 2020 could mean any of the following:

Katie will be back

Kolb has already told Katie that she's out and is in the midst of a coaching search

Kolb has already told Katie that she's out and has a new coach chosen but is waiting till after the playoffs to make an announcement (certainly necessary if it involves someone currently coaching one of the playoff teams)

Some other scenario. (Given Joe Tsai's latest moves, is it certain that Kolb's job is safe?)


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I'm guessing that the silence about the Liberty's coaching situation for 2020 could mean any of the following:

Katie will be back

Kolb has already told Katie that she's out and is in the midst of a coaching search

Kolb has already told Katie that she's out and has a new coach chosen but is waiting till after the playoffs to make an announcement (certainly necessary if it involves someone currently coaching one of the playoff teams)

Some other scenario. (Given Joe Tsai's latest moves, is it certain that Kolb's job is safe?)


I agree I have a feeling (esp since weiner reported that deposit calls are going out to STH for barclays) that arena staff etc will be together and soon

Just a feeling have no info one way or another as in the dark as anyone this time



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the new Nets CEO is also the CEO of the Liberty -- does anyone know? -- he was just hired. If he does both, then first he will deal with the Nets, then the Liberty. And there's plenty of time to get another WNBA coach ...



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
If the new Nets CEO is also the CEO of the Liberty -- does anyone know? -- he was just hired. If he does both, then first he will deal with the Nets, then the Liberty. And there's plenty of time to get another WNBA coach ...


So far all that's been announced is that David Levy will be CEO of the Nets and for the Barclay Center. So presumably he may or may not become the CEO of the Nets as well. It would make sense to me, but who knows?

This news about Levy made me wonder if Jonathan Kolb's job is safe as GM of the Liberty. We'll see.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 11:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

YES “And We’re Off” podcast with Jonathan Kolb

https://soundcloud.com/user-644078808/episode-100-ny-liberty-gm-jonathan-kolb

• 0:00 - 2:49: Discussion on winning lottery and the emotions leading up to announcement on ESPN2

• 2:49 - 4:02: Which way Kolb was leaning with the pick?

• 4:03 - 10:00: Asia Durr discussion - the second overall selection this past season - her hip surgery - timetable for recovery and assessment of her rookie season.

• 10:30 - 12:05: Marine Johannes assessment of her rookie season with Liberty.

• 12:10 - 14:40: More assessments Amanda Zahui B/Rebecca Allen/Bria Hartley/Kia Nurse

• 14:59 - 16:30: Han Xu conversation

• 16:35 - 18:34: Liberty Fans being best in league, Barclays Center game and how electric it was.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 09/20/19 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks intersting stuff more on Barclays game I think its just setting schedule now may not fully announce until schedule reveal just to make sure no conflicts



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 12:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This interview was interesting to hear. But also hilarious. From the 19 minutes of glowing words from Jonathan Kolb and the interviewer, you'd think the Liberty went undefeated this season.

10-24? 10-24 after 7-27? I must have had a bad dream. That couldn't have been the Liberty. Smile


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 12:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
This interview was interesting to hear. But also hilarious. From the 19 minutes of glowing words from Jonathan Kolb and the interviewer, you'd think the Liberty went undefeated this season.

10-24? 10-24 after 7-27? I must have had a bad dream. That couldn't have been the Liberty. Smile


Laughing I was thinking exactly the same thing. Everyone had a wonderful season! Everything exceeded expectations! Anything bad somehow turned into a blessing!

Actually, I thought Kolb was okay to begin with. The problem was Chris Shearn doing his rah-rah cheerleader thing. Eventually, Kolb just gave in and followed Shearn's lead.

I used to like Julianne Vianni, but this year she and Shearn together were unlistenable. You would barely know that a basketball game was going on -- it was like they were having a random telephone conversation. Michael Grady was waaaaaaaay better than Shearn. Hopefully he gets most of the games next season.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 12:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:

I used to like Julianne Vianni, but this year she and Shearn together were unlistenable. You would barely know that a basketball game was going on -- it was like they were having a random telephone conversation. Michael Grady was waaaaaaaay better than Shearn. Hopefully he gets most of the games next season.


ditto



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
This interview was interesting to hear. But also hilarious. From the 19 minutes of glowing words from Jonathan Kolb and the interviewer, you'd think the Liberty went undefeated this season.

10-24? 10-24 after 7-27? I must have had a bad dream. That couldn't have been the Liberty. Smile


Laughing I was thinking exactly the same thing. Everyone had a wonderful season! Everything exceeded expectations! Anything bad somehow turned into a blessing!

Actually, I thought Kolb was okay to begin with. The problem was Chris Shearn doing his rah-rah cheerleader thing. Eventually, Kolb just gave in and followed Shearn's lead.

I used to like Julianne Vianni, but this year she and Shearn together were unlistenable. You would barely know that a basketball game was going on -- it was like they were having a random telephone conversation. Michael Grady was waaaaaaaay better than Shearn. Hopefully he gets most of the games next season.


Vianni was fine without shearn...who likely got advice on how to call wnba games from ruocco (who is also YES s b guy)

I sent it to the team promote the backup and get rid of shearn he's not the right fit and brought vianni way down

There are folks doing college who can do way better



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd gladly trade the Dream's Amy and Andy Show for Juul's and Chris.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't mind Ruocco. He kids around, but mostly he focuses on the game. You never get the feeling that he isn't paying attention. And some of the banter between him and Lobo is genuinely witty. Yankees fans got a large dose of Ruocco this summer when Michael Kay had surgery. If you're a purist and don't want any jokes at all, then yes he can be annoying. But I don't consider myself a purist.

However, the reason I'm watching the game is to watch the game. I expect the majority of commentary from the announcers to be about the game. Either that or just shut-up and let us watch. This is TV, not radio. You don't need to be jabbering every second. The problem with Shearn and Vianni together is that they never shut-up -- ever! And then they're often talking about anything other than the game. I remember one incident when Tina Charles got hit in the face and had to leave the game. Vianni and Shearin never mention it. Were they even watching the game? Probably not. The broadcasts are much better with Grady because he primarily focuses on the action. I also like that he has that traditional deep announcer's voice. Cool



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I'd gladly trade the Dream's Amy and Andy Show for Juul's and Chris.


Atlanta's broadcast is even more annoying because their microphones are never balanced. Amy usually sounds like she has no mic of her own and is sitting 10 feet away from Andy.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Randy wrote:
I'd gladly trade the Dream's Amy and Andy Show for Juul's and Chris.


Atlanta's broadcast is even more annoying because their microphones are never balanced. Amy usually sounds like she has no mic of her own and is sitting 10 feet away from Andy.


That must be a problem with LP, because I've never noticed it, but I watch on WSB Now. Seems very odd. Andy doesn't know players very well, but I can live with him. Amy just blabs on with nothing worth saying. I wish Amy's mic was set to off.

I think it be nice if they had an option on LP to just get the arena announcer and crowd noise. Although - NY arena announcer is not my cup of tea - he sounds like an old school boxing announcer.


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