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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: PA
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Posted: 10/26/17 5:21 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
This is McGraw trying to work the system, just like Trump not paying taxes.
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How many transfers has ND had under McGraw? Well, let's hear it!
Here's a hint: until fairly recently, it was very rare for ND to take athletic scholarship transfers in ANY sport. There were a very few who transferred, walked on, then got a scholarship (in Football). The only transfer I can recall in Women's Basketball before this was a walkon. Until Achonwa, McGraw hadn't recruited any foreign student.
However, you seem to suggest that McGraw "works" the system? Does the above sound like someone who doesn't play by any rules? It sounds like she has stricter rules than most other coaches out there.
Please step back from your total hatred of ND and try to look at this objectively. Are you able to do that?
As was pointed out by others, Shepard's situation is very similar to those who were granted an exception. Why are you so upset about this? Maybe you are afraid of a ND team with Shepard this year? Basically, considering ND's injury situation this year, without her they'd be lucky to get to the Elite Eight.
BTW, if you want to bring politics into this, your attack on McGraw seems to resemble a Trump attack on someone he doesn't like. IOW, an unwarranted, false accusation. Ironically, you try to bring up Trump to attack ND, yet you use his own tactics when doing so.
Apologies to those who don't want politics in these threads. This was just a direct response to someone doing it towards my team and doing so while using the tactics of the politician they are using as an example.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 10/26/17 11:26 am ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
This is McGraw trying to work the system, just like Trump not paying taxes.
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How many transfers has ND had under McGraw? Well, let's hear it! |
I'm not against teams having transfers. I'm only addressing the merit of Shepard not having to sit out a year to transfer. Does Shepard merit a waiver? No, she doesn't.
CBiebel wrote: |
Here's a hint: until fairly recently, it was very rare for ND to take athletic scholarship transfers in ANY sport. There were a very few who transferred, walked on, then got a scholarship (in Football). The only transfer I can recall in Women's Basketball before this was a walkon. |
Seems like you take great pride in this. Is the pride taking a hit after two transfers in one year? Again, the number of transfers is not an issue for me. Does Shepard merit a waiver? No, she doesn't.
CBiebel wrote: |
Until Achonwa, McGraw hadn't recruited any foreign student. |
Why are foreign players being brought into this? You're making the argument something it isn't in order to avoid addressing the merits of Shepard not having to sit out a year. Does Shepard merit a waiver? No, she doesn't.
CBiebel wrote: |
However, you seem to suggest that McGraw "works" the system? Does the above sound like someone who doesn't play by any rules? It sounds like she has stricter rules than most other coaches out there. |
That was Art's fault. He suggested that the NCAA was handing out waivers "like candy" (even though he didn't bother coming up with a long list of examples in women's basketball), and he suggested the coaches of this long list of players who did sit out year didn't bother considering a waiver. If that were true, it would suggest some coaches work the system more than others.
CBiebel wrote: |
Please step back from your total hatred of ND and try to look at this objectively. Are you able to do that? |
It feels like I'm the only one being objective in this argument. ND players are some of my favorite. I have no "total hatred of ND". That's just a extreme picture ND fans try to paint in order to avoid addressing the merits of this case.
CBiebel wrote: |
As was pointed out by others, Shepard's situation is very similar to those who were granted an exception. |
Wow, you finally got around to addressing the issue only to lean on others' weak arguments. Somebody who is obviously more familiar with the situation pointed out that they're not similar. Review the differences and reassess.
CBiebel wrote: |
Why are you so upset about this? |
I'm not upset. I'll be a little upset if they grant the waiver. Why would I be upset? Because she should have to sit just like all the others have had to sit. Why is that so hard to understand?
By the way, this is a two week old argument you're kicking up, so who's the one who is upset? I've already had my say. I made a good case against Shepard being granted a waiver. ND fans avoid talking about the merits of a waiver because their are none. What more needs to be said? Nothing. Quit trying to address my motivation and bash me because I took a strong stance against Shepard being granted a waiver. It's a right vs wrong issue for me. Notice how I took a stance against Slocum being granted a rumored waiver? Now if they want to take away the sitting out rule for ALL players who want to transfer, I don't know if that would be a good thing, but at least it would be fair. Should ND be granted this waiver because they need it to be competitive this year? No, it shouldn't be about that. It should be based only on the merits of Shepard's case.
This article makes it sound like it's ND that needs the hardship waiver instead of the player. Is that the way it should be?
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Due to the injuries, Notre Dame has applied for a hardship waiver to allow Nebraska transfer Jessica Shepard to become eligible as well, but has yet to receive a ruling. |
https://www.abc57.com/news/notre-dame-womens-hoops-preparing-for-challenges-in-new-season
CBiebel wrote: |
Maybe you are afraid of a ND team with Shepard this year? |
Your team is so full of MickeyD players, that your bench playing 200 min could beat my team. You shouldn't be trying to drum up motivation for my post and realize that some people want things done fairly.
CBiebel wrote: |
Basically, considering ND's injury situation this year, without her they'd be lucky to get to the Elite Eight. |
Well if any team deserves to be in the Elite Eight every year it's ND, so it's nice that you're being so humble.
CBiebel wrote: |
BTW, if you want to bring politics into this, your attack on McGraw seems to resemble a Trump attack on someone he doesn't like. IOW, an unwarranted, false accusation. Ironically, you try to bring up Trump to attack ND, yet you use his own tactics when doing so. |
Who just spent 90% of his time speculating motivations for my post instead of addressing the issue?
CBiebel wrote: |
Apologies to those who don't want politics in these threads. This was just a direct response to someone doing it towards my team and doing so while using the tactics of the politician they are using as an example. |
If you remember during the campaign, Trump said he didn't pay taxes because he was smart. If McGraw can get this waiver granted, I guess she was just being smart. Doesn't mean I have to respect either of them on how they apply their intelligence.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 10/26/17 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/26/17 11:45 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Does Shepard merit a waiver? No, she doesn't.
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How the hell do you know? Have you seen her application? You don't know anything at all about it. You're just bloviating.
And I provided you stats showing that the NCAA has been granting more than half of all waiver applications. You, as usual, ignored any facts you find inconvenient. Meanwhile you threw out a bunch of names of players who transferred without knowing whether a single one of them ever applied for a waiver, much less was denied, as if that was meaningful in any way whatsoever.
You're just a giant troll when it comes to anything remotely Notre Dame related, whether it's Diggins, McGraw, or anything else. That's all you're doing. As usual.
I'm still waiting for your tirade about Dawn Staley "working the system" by applying for a waiver for Te'a Cooper. Ooooohhhh. That's right. You like Dawn Staley. It's ok for her. It's only McGraw that's prohibited.
You don't really expect anyone to take you seriously, do you?
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: 10/26/17 1:11 pm ::: |
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I'd say a legitimate argument for a waiver would be if any of these kids were kicked off a team and/or were told their scholarship wasn't going to be renewed.
What other argument would a player like Shepard have? She played in every single game at Nebraska and started 58 out of 60. She stayed through the coaching change transition year.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: 10/26/17 1:22 pm ::: |
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Michigan's Maria Backman, a 6'1" senior guard, dropped off of the roster this month. I don't know why, but she didn't play much during her career - averaged 5.1 minutes, 1.2 ppg and 1.1 rpg.. She tended to get called for a foul within the first defensive possession each time she subbed in.
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Posted: 10/26/17 1:39 pm ::: |
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mzonefan wrote: |
Michigan's Maria Backman, a 6'1" senior guard, dropped off of the roster this month. I don't know why, but she didn't play much during her career - averaged 5.1 minutes, 1.2 ppg and 1.1 rpg.. She tended to get called for a foul within the first defensive possession each time she subbed in. |
I looked at the roster, and didn't see Abby Cole, the VB player...didn't she have a year of eligibility left? |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18042 Location: Queens
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Posted: 10/26/17 1:46 pm ::: |
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Jesus, who'd they piss off upstairs?
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/26/17 2:27 pm ::: |
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mzonefan wrote: |
I'd say a legitimate argument for a waiver would be if any of these kids were kicked off a team and/or were told their scholarship wasn't going to be renewed.
What other argument would a player like Shepard have? She played in every single game at Nebraska and started 58 out of 60. She stayed through the coaching change transition year. |
I'm not a big fan of waivers. As I've said too many times to count, I think they've become arbitrary and too commonplace. I think there should be no "permission" required from the current school; no restrictions on destination; contact should only be allowed to be initiated by the player herself directly to the head coach (no handlers or intermediaries allowed); and EVERY player should have to sit a year. Nice and clear, no exceptions.
But the current reality is that July from 2012-June 2013, the NCAA approved 127 of 236, so they are granting more than they are denying. I doubt if they all meet your far-too-narrow basis for approval.
So if a player is ready to play, a coach is crazy if she doesn't file the paperwork and ask. They have better than a 50/50 chance of success.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 10/26/17 2:34 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
Jesus, who'd they piss off upstairs? |
Sounds like Montana last year....does somebody up there just pick a team at random and strike them?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66993 Location: Where the action is
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3517
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Posted: 10/26/17 10:49 pm ::: |
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How many ACL's is that, before the season's even started? A dozen or more?
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4878 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: 10/27/17 11:07 am ::: |
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stever wrote: |
mzonefan wrote: |
Michigan's Maria Backman, a 6'1" senior guard, dropped off of the roster this month. I don't know why, but she didn't play much during her career - averaged 5.1 minutes, 1.2 ppg and 1.1 rpg.. She tended to get called for a foul within the first defensive possession each time she subbed in. |
I looked at the roster, and didn't see Abby Cole, the VB player...didn't she have a year of eligibility left? |
She did. I don't think her chronic shin splints ever healed enough. She also got engaged to Austin Hatch (the MBB player who survived two plane crashes and wasn't able to play) several months ago, so she probably decided to move on. She's no longer listed as a student.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1099 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 10/28/17 6:44 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
mzonefan wrote: |
I'd say a legitimate argument for a waiver would be if any of these kids were kicked off a team and/or were told their scholarship wasn't going to be renewed.
What other argument would a player like Shepard have? She played in every single game at Nebraska and started 58 out of 60. She stayed through the coaching change transition year. |
I'm not a big fan of waivers. As I've said too many times to count, I think they've become arbitrary and too commonplace. I think there should be no "permission" required from the current school; no restrictions on destination; contact should only be allowed to be initiated by the player herself directly to the head coach (no handlers or intermediaries allowed); and EVERY player should have to sit a year. Nice and clear, no exceptions.
But the current reality is that July from 2012-June 2013, the NCAA approved 127 of 236, so they are granting more than they are denying. I doubt if they all meet your far-too-narrow basis for approval.
So if a player is ready to play, a coach is crazy if she doesn't file the paperwork and ask. They have better than a 50/50 chance of success. |
Mzonefan did not use the term "the" rather she used the term "a" to categorize the example she gave for a waiver. Using the term "a" implies it is one of perhaps many where "the" would imply it is the only one. So you label of " all to narrow" is actually not applicable.
Though out this discussion you bring up the high percentage of approvals vs denials of waivers as an example of how easy they are to get. Well those stats would not necessarily reflect those that would have wanted waivers only those that applied. The numbers that applied were probably scewered in favor of those that more closely met the established criteria. Many like those that were listed that sat out the year probably didn't even apply because the realized they cases did not meet the criteria.
Still anyone probably the right to apply even though they might not fit the general criteria for a waiver. I believe the posters who brought this up were only stating that Shepard did not appear to have a solid rational for a waiver and that most other players in the same situation would not even apply.
Art----this is where your argument about the percentages of approvals holds little water. You see if every player who was in the same category as those that sat out ( which is a category that Shade believes Shepard belongs in) would apply the number of refusals would skyrocket. Waivers only seem easy because the majority of players who would be refused usually eliminate themselves by not even applying.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1099 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 10/28/17 7:19 am ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
This is McGraw trying to work the system, just like Trump not paying taxes.
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BTW, if you want to bring politics into this, your attack on McGraw seems to resemble a Trump attack on someone he doesn't like. IOW, an unwarranted, false accusation. Ironically, you try to bring up Trump to attack ND, yet you use his own tactics when doing so.
Apologies to those who don't want politics in these threads. This was just a direct response to someone doing it towards my team and doing so while using the tactics of the politician they are using as an example. |
I am one of those that is tired of people using any forum they can to make political statements. I have chosen to basically ignore facebook for that purpose. At least on facebook you know that people will post political things. The thing is that the negativity is nothing like it has ever been before.
Cbiebel---------This is why I do not buy your apology. It appears to me that using Shades post was an opportunistic justification on your part to get your own political jab in. There was no reason to mention a politician in response just as there was no reason for Shades to mention him in the first place. That is the problem. Peoples have lost their sense of propriety in respect to promoting their own personal feelings and agenda's. It's bad enough when it introjects itself in the subject at hand- WCBB without bringing politics into it.
I personally have no problem discussing any subject under the right conditions. They should be done face to face or in the proper forum where issues can be discussed in depth rather than in pablumic sound bites. All this sort of thing accomplishes is people venting their frustrations on unwilling listeners.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 11/01/17 5:14 pm ::: |
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Jess Shepard granted a waiver and can play this season.
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7860 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 11/01/17 5:26 pm ::: |
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Complete and utter bullshit about Shepherd. The message the ncaa sends is be a drama queen, bully your coaches and transfer when you don't get your way, then you get to play right away when thousands of athletes prior who had compelling cases got dropped. SMH. The sad thing is Muffet will probably bow down to Jess. Maybe she would've played more her freshman year if she was in shape
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014 Posts: 284
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Posted: 11/01/17 5:41 pm ::: |
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SDHoops wrote: |
Complete and utter bullshit about Shepherd. The message the ncaa sends is be a drama queen, bully your coaches and transfer when you don't get your way, then you get to play right away when thousands of athletes prior who had compelling cases got dropped. SMH. The sad thing is Muffet will probably bow down to Jess. Maybe she would've played more her freshman year if she was in shape |
Ummm seeing how she tore her ACL midway through her senior year of high school may explain why she didn’t play as much her freshmen year....because she was recovering from an ACL tear, which can also explain her being out of shape. But regardless of that, I see no reason why she should get a waiver. That doesn’t make sense at all.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 11/01/17 5:49 pm ::: |
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Shmermerer1 wrote: |
I see no reason why she should get a waiver. That doesn’t make sense at all. |
There is none. It's huge pile of flaming BS. It's more a hardship waiver for ND than anything else. Look at all the injuries Duke had year after year. Did Lexie Brown sit for a year? Yes, she did.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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BobScoutingReport
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 684
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Posted: 11/01/17 6:07 pm ::: Jess Shepard & NCAA |
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I have nothing against Jess Shepard getting eligible at Notre Dame so long as nobody else has to sit out. She was the face of the Nebraska franchise but wanted to go where she could win a national title.
I have had some dealings lately with the NCAA trying to research the number of girls' club basketball teams (high school and middle school age) registered with the NCAA to play in certified club basketball events in spring and summer. My suspicion is the number has been growing over the last 10 years and wanted to get some facts.
Anyway, I got to speak to a woman in NCAA research (very suspicious of me repeatedly asking why I wanted to know this) who told me she was not sure they had such a number available (of course THEY know as it is their site!). Anyway she told me that she could not tell me even if she knew. I was given a phone number for "NCAA Public Relations." In calling the number, the recording said they do not talk to the public but would allow me to submit a question on their website which they acknowledged receiving but then never actually answered.
My conclusion is the NCAA is a combination of incompetence and arrogance, just interested in keeping their well paying jobs and catching enough violations to make themselves appear worthy of staying in power. Previously, I gave them the benefit of the doubt but no longer!
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allenleavell
Joined: 28 Apr 2010 Posts: 677
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Posted: 11/01/17 9:39 pm ::: |
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Ok i will give this example Chatrice White ,Grace Goodheart,Jessica Sheperd.They all have this in common.Grace Goodheart Father is a lawyer that not they all have in common.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11166
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Posted: 11/02/17 9:27 am ::: |
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allenleavell wrote: |
Ok i will give this example Chatrice White ,Grace Goodheart,Jessica Sheperd.They all have this in common.Grace Goodheart Father is a lawyer that not they all have in common. |
Bingo.
The NCAA does not want to spend $50,000 to defend a rule that might well be overturned in court, and of course, is pretty much indefensible. When the legal advice for the player is free, the NCAA slinks away.
But when the family is poor, then the hammer falls.
Don't you love the NCAA?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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